GENTLEMAN Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Until we have an effective three players ahead of our midfield then we will always fail to witness the true potential of our middle three. Our attacking players are so inept it's unreal. I agree, we need serious investment in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 He takes corners and freekicks, that's why it's so high. Ha yes, that's a fair point I've overlooked....then again 50% of those are out swingers and they are 99% ineffective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 The Alonso link was posted to presumably point out that tackling is not as important a stat as some may think, and not to compare the 2 players. The fact that you compared his tackling stats to Westwood’s is perplexing and pointless, which is what Stevo was trying to point out. The bolded is ironic because nobody in this thread bar yourself is comparing Westwood to any other player. You simply don't understand, or you are being deliberately obtuse (which wouldn't surprise me at all on here). Alonso's comments were used to justify Westwood being a bad tackler yet he himself doesn't share such lowly stats in that regard. Defensive stats are not relative (not sure why I have to repeat this for the umpteenth time!), if you are a strong tackler then that will be reflected in your stats whether you are world-class or bang average and regardless of team you play for. So what was truly 'pointless' was to bring up his comments in the first place. No doubt you'll come up with a reply that ignores all that I have said but I don't think I can simplify it any more than that. So I'm done here. Good day to you. The point was, it's pointless to compare tackling stats because we all agree Westwood is a (very) poor tackler. Xabi Alonso has better tackling stats than him? Great, we all could have probably guessed that, not to mention that it's irrelevant to his overall sentiment that tackling is not that important. He could be an amazing or horrible tackler and still think it isn't important. It could have even been an article from a former player (or a pundit), and the point would have been just as cogent (not that I agree with it, but it's a different angle which hasn't been presented in this thread and is up for debate and far from pointless). Would you have dug up his tackling stats from when he was a player to prove...I'm not sure what exactly . Cheers for the mature response though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Yes, so it was pointless to bring up the Alonso comments in the first place. They would only have been somewhat relevent if he himself was a poor tackler. We have taken a very extensive detour but that was ultimately the point I was trying to get across in my initial response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Jesus wept, can we put this Alonso thing to bed now? Or take it to another thread, preferably on another forum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakid007 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Good player. Steadily improving but needs to add sum goals or atleast take on more shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay.P.A Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I think with Delph seemingly off, as well as Vlaar, Westwood will be a very important player for us in the future. Maybe even our captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I think with Delph seemingly off, as well as Vlaar, Westwood will be a very important player for us in the future. Maybe even our captain. If that is the case then I don't envisage our situation improving. We need better players than Westwood. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) I thought Westwood took a lot responsibility when he captained against Manchester City. Here is an example of some good pressing and tackling from Westy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kNYKYMlmvs&list=UUrFgcdLJCB0hSLHOkaUUgZA Edited November 16, 2014 by GENTLEMAN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Too Lightweight for me....The game has changed as I keep getting told....The modern game requires more power and presence in midfield to be effective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 My sincerest apologies for causing havoc with the Alonso article, I should have provided my reasons for posting it much earlier. The point I was trying to articulate (rather clumsily) was tackling can be viewed as a last resort, usually compensating for poor positional play, possession and technique. It has also been well documented that the defensive midfield role in modern football has evolved in the last fourteen years, ball winning tackles are slowly becoming obsolete due to the changing style and stricter rules of the game. Westwood is very much a modern defensive midfielder, possessing technical attributes ahead of more robust physicality. I would say similar to players like Carrick, Barry and Arteta. However, I am not looking to compare with those individuals, admittedly, some of the players mentioned tackle more than others. Can Westwood improve further? Of course, but if we want to build a winning team with some style and class, Westwood is one of the current players we build a team around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Can Westwood improve further? Of course, but if we want to build a winning team with some style and class, Westwood is one of the current players we build a team around. Couldn't disagree more. I think he's someone that needs to be replaced. With Sanchez settling in I think he would have been dropped if delph hadn't got injured. I'd much rather see an attacking midfield player signed to play alongside cleverly and sanchez. Or if we played a 2 man midfield I think cleverly and Sanchez is the better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swerbs Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Future captain for me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Can Westwood improve further? Of course, but if we want to build a winning team with some style and class, Westwood is one of the current players we build a team around. Couldn't disagree more. I think he's someone that needs to be replaced. With Sanchez settling in I think he would have been dropped if delph hadn't got injured. I'd much rather see an attacking midfield player signed to play alongside cleverly and sanchez. Or if we played a 2 man midfield I think cleverly and Sanchez is the better option. I'm surprised AW is a target for discontent. I don't fully understand why you'd want Westwood to be replaced? I've read people saying he doesn't impose himself on games or generally do enough for the team, but I believe that is an unfair assessment judging from the majority of things we've seen from him during the last two years. Edited November 16, 2014 by GENTLEMAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I just don't think he's good enough. I don't think he offers anything in defence and barely offers anything in attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I just don't think he's good enough. I don't think he offers anything in defence and barely offers anything in attack. That's why he plays in midfield 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 That explains it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Future captain for me. Birdseye ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) I just don't think he's good enough. I don't think he offers anything in defence and barely offers anything in attack. I think he's more than good enough and if the movement up front off the ball (Benteke apart) was better then Westwood will shine. Edited November 16, 2014 by Robbie09 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Don't good players shine because of their individual talent and not relying on others? Benteke plays in a poor team but he shines, as does delph. Westwood doesn't shine because he's not that good a player. He does keep the ball well but with cleverly now in the team I think we could improve on Westwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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