Scottish Independence

[Ginko]

So let's say the vote is 51 % to 49% either way.... What happens to the side that lost .... It seems pretty passionate out there , will the yes people just say oh well and go home or could there be trouble on the streets ?

 

If it's a yes, Alex Salmond will get in full William Wallace gear (despite the historical inaccuracies with Braveheart's costume designs, sorry Donnie) and parade through the streets of Edinburgh burning an English flag before ending up at the local whiskey distillery, knocking back a few shots and then going out back to toss a few cabers.

If it's a no, he'll don the William Wallace getup and willingly get into the guillotine.

[bickster]

I don't know many yes voters but the few that I have met all seem rather weird and couldn't give me any valid reasons for voting yes other than "**** it, why not"

 

My biggest fear, even on the day, is that the the people who would vote no just won't bother turning up.

Tired of being outvoted 10-1 is a valid reason, though you probably wont agree.

I doubt the normal "couch-voters" will turn up, just this once, to vote "No, thanks" and then go back to having no influence.

The turnout will be huge. People have specifically had to register for this vote and over 4 million people have registered to vote. This is likely to be the biggest percentage turnout in a UK election for decades. People have already had to get off the sofa to register

[bickster]

The result will be announced at about 7.30am as I understand it which diffuses the chance of riots.

Have you ever witnessed Sauchiehall Street at 7am? Never underestimate a Glaswegians ability to be drunk at any specific time

[DanishVillan]

Agreed, the turnout will be huge as it should be on such a matter.

[mjmooney]

Where does it say that this stupid opinion poll (which has as much relevance to democracy as the X Factor voting system) is in any way constitutional or legally binding? Everybody is blithely trotting out this line that if YES gets 51%, that's it, the UK is dissolved. You can't just dismantle a nation state on the basis of a **** ing voxpop.

Oh, and BTW, Salmond is English. Born in Essex.

[Jon]

As Natalie Imbruglia once sang, "I'm Torn" on this vote, I really am.

 

On the one had, I can understand why they want to get away from being ruled by a distant, privileged, wealth westminster elite governing in the narrow interests of London and Capital Finance. I can see why they'd want to govern themselves. 

 

But I think economically and politically, it's probably the wrong thing to do.

 

I think this shouold be a Left Vs Right thing, and not a Scots Vs Westminster thing. As such, the Left is stronger with Scotchland, and Scotchland will be stronger with a United Left in the UK, rather than breaking all ties and sinking, even if it is with good intentions.

[peterms]

As Natalie Imbruglia once sang, "I'm Torn" on this vote, I really am.

 

On the one had, I can understand why they want to get away from being ruled by a distant, privileged, wealth westminster elite governing in the narrow interests of London and Capital Finance. I can see why they'd want to govern themselves. 

 

But I think economically and politically, it's probably the wrong thing to do.

 

I think this shouold be a Left Vs Right thing, and not a Scots Vs Westminster thing. As such, the Left is stronger with Scotchland, and Scotchland will be stronger with a United Left in the UK, rather than breaking all ties and sinking, even if it is with good intentions.

 

As someone who would like to get away from the distant, privileged, wealthy Westminster elite, I can say I am firmly convinced that the SNP's proposals are absolutely not the way to  achieve this.

 

The proposals of the Radical Independence Campaign are much more like it.  But although a big part of the Yes campaign, it won't be them that negotiates independence arrangements with Westminster.

[omariqy]

I would vote yes purely to troll Cameron and Co.

[Seat68]

Lets say that a yes vote is successful, what will happen to the political make up of the Scotch? Currently outside of the SNP, seats held as I understand it are held by Labour in the majority and the Lib Dems, it may take some time for any political party to establish itself and in the mean time Scotland is likely to be under an autocracy. 

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I know a good number of Green Yes voters. A vote for independence is not a vote for Salmond and that is the big mistake the Better Together campaign has made.

 

I'm kind of torn, too. I can't really say 'don't go', because I'm not terribly fond of the current system either, but I do think power should be devolved as much as possible, although within a larger government that takes care of the essentials e.g. health, schools, safety. So, I'm not really big on states breaking off because too often nationalism leads to Us & Them. However, if, right now, I was given a choice between the status quo and the potential to do something new, I would sway toward the latter, even if I suspected the status quo would probably remain in place.

 

Heart ruling head, which is why referendums can be a bit silly.

 

 

 

 

[blandy]

I agree, CED.

Another thing is the way things are set up. I mean by that, that there's an inbuilt inertia and barrier against change.

You can take an example from the current list of things the no people go on about - whether it be currency, or embassies, or the BBC, or number plates/DVLA or whatever.

The No people say "you don't know what's going to happen/be in place" so vote "No".

Of course there's no established status on any of these things, - but that's because the change hasn't happened yet. It's the argument to never change anything, to atrophy, basically.

There's a massive need for change in the UK and everything is set up to prevent that happening. The political establishment, big business, the media are all happy for things to stay as they are, with just the tiny bit of tinkering to give the illusion of actual democracy and progress.

It needs a proper good rocket up it's arse.

[chrisp65]

In the next general election, I shall be taking all my advice on who to vote for from retired admirals, failed banks and grocery stores.

[lapal_fan]

I love the way most of the argument is based on the fact that the Scotch hate being ruled by someone "far away".

 

It's about 400 miles, a stones throw compared to most countries, **** imbeciles

 

How do they think the U.S/Canada/Russia/Brazil feel?

 

Get over your little gripes and get on with it, who gives a shit?

[MakemineVanilla]

The biggest irony is the claim by the Yes campaign that they are idealists who want a more equal society.

 

In reality, when their values are unpacked, they are revealed to be driven entirely by self-interest, which is more Adam Smith and Milton Friedman rather than Marx.

 

They have swapped class loyalty for ethnic and nationalist loyalty, which is definitely a traditional right-wing trope.

 

What ever gains they envisage, will come at the cost of their class peers across the border, who will likely suffer more austerity as a result.

 

Those English, Welsh and NI voters who voted in Labour governments which implemented socialist programmes which benefited Scotland, might rightfully feel betrayed.

 

So the whole Independence movement marks yet another stage in the relentless march of right-wing values, which atomise society, separates every man from his brother, and politically isolates the individual.

 

Distracted by the class enemies of Bullingdon club buffoons, and bullies, they have ditched their class loyalties for the promise of personal gain. 

 

If the perception that the Yes camp is dominated by the young, it says a lot about the state of indoctrination of Scotland's younger generation.

 

Dedicated consumers, yes!

 

But idealists? I don't think so.

[limvillian]

I don't know many yes voters but the few that I have met all seem rather weird and couldn't give me any valid reasons for voting yes other than "**** it, why not"

 

My biggest fear, even on the day, is that the the people who would vote no just won't bother turning up.

 

 

Gotta say as an impartial outsider the No voters have come across on TV at least as far more "weird", a lot look like  the knuckledraggers.

[ismail-villa]

If Scotland do break away from the UK, would they still be an EU nation? I'm not very clued up on these things

[DanishVillan]

If Scotland do break away from the UK, would they still be an EU nation? I'm not very clued up on these things

 

There would be a 2-year divorce period. Most of these questions can´t be answered before the result is in. EU loves Oil and NG though.

[Awol]

If Scotland do break away from the UK, would they still be an EU nation? I'm not very clued up on these things

No, they will be a new state outside the EU and have to re-apply from the back if the queue of existing applicants. All current members must agree to them joining and they will have to meet a list of criteria, including having a central bank, joining the euro currency etc.

Minimum 5 year process but could be longer.

[jon_c]

A straw poll of my family who have voted is currently 7-2 in favour of No. The two who voted yes are both English living in Scotland.

Edited September 18, 2014 by jon_c

[bickster]

Interesting that Murdoch's rags didn't eventually come out and support any particular side in the end

After all his bluster last week about moving the business to Scotland and going down on Alex Salmond metaphorically, his papers headlines on the day appear somewhat on the fence. Did someone whisper in his ear that he was being a dickhead or have the latest polls shown him what will happen as he really doesn't like to back a loser?