Scottish Independence

[chrisp65]

I think my gripe is that both sides stick to juvenile positions until (and even after) proven utterly wrong. The level of debate is a bit basic. One side says they can instantly join the EU, the other side says they'll be veto'd. The truth is they could probably join in a good few years time (what with all their fish and everything).

 

On the currency, one side says currency union the other says you cannot use the pound. The truth right now is they can use the pound but without any control or influence, the truth after a theoretical yes vote would be different again, I suspect.

 

Milliband says we'll potentially need to build border crossings, but fails to notice there aren't any in Ireland. The SNP promises to protect the NHS whilst trying to work out how to shave a few hundred million off the budget. Westminster tells one group they'll scrap Barnett and tells another group they'll strengthen it.

 

The Westminster offer is changed after the postal votes have already been submitted.

 

Westminster have promised non-specific constitutional change 'set in stone'. Today they've clarified that a timetable to talk about change is what's 'set in stone'.

 

As the potential split of one country into two, I believe it's been an exemplary campaign period for the people, open debate, genuine choice and as transparent a voting system as anywhere in the world plus the result will be honoured by both sides. As for the politicians and their contribution to one of the most important votes in 300 years, well that's been nothing short of confused, lazy, deliberately vague and mostly juvenile.

 

It'll be interesting in 18 months time to see many of the better together campaigners explaining why we'd be better off out of europe.  

[Kingman]

When do we get to vote if we want to keep them or not?

[jon_c]

On the border crossing, in Ireland it is an EU country to an EU country.

Scotland would potentially be a non-EU state into the EU. So I can't see how in those circumstances, one wouldn't be required.

[chrisp65]

On the border crossing, in Ireland it is an EU country to an EU country.

Scotland would potentially be a non-EU state into the EU. So I can't see how in those circumstances, one wouldn't be required.

 

Can you genuinely see the UK government investing in the infrastructure to build booths on all motorways, A roads and B roads plus monitoring the countryside, building train stops and adding coast guard to the local harbours to stop people popping up or down to see their relatives?

 

No, there'll be 17 additional customs officers allocated to stop every 20th consignment of dodgy fags or Irn Bru plus regular infomercial articles on the One Show about how we monitor the border.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

If you had to choose between a cock and a vagina, which would you choose?

 

#indyref

[bickster]

On the border crossing, in Ireland it is an EU country to an EU country.

Scotland would potentially be a non-EU state into the EU. So I can't see how in those circumstances, one wouldn't be required.

UK and Ireland are not in the Schengen Zone, they opted out so the EU to EU thing is irrelevant. You travel from UK to France you get your passport checked in France, coming back you get it checked here. UK and Eire have their own agreement separate from EU

[Corcaigh]

Looks like at this stage of the game the referendum proposal is going to be defeated by a couple of percentage points. Not a comfortable victory but such is the way of referendum campaigns. The timely intervention of Gordon Brown's Devo Max plan to stem the surge of support last week saved the day. Brown to be next Scottish First Minister?

 

On the Ireland-Norn Iron border, there were custom booths and checkpoints for many decades, but it was still unsurprisingly a porous border.

[Nabby]

Looks like at this stage of the game the referendum proposal is going to be defeated by a couple of percentage points. Not a comfortable victory but such is the way of referendum campaigns. The timely intervention of Gordon Brown's Devo Max plan to stem the surge of support last week saved the day. Brown to be next Scottish First Minister?

 

On the Ireland-Norn Iron border, there were custom booths and checkpoints for many decades, but it was still unsurprisingly a porous border.

 

Brown is done he has said , did his part for sake of his childrens future but no desire to return to front line politics ...well that's his line tonight anyway.

[TrentVilla]

 

Looks like at this stage of the game the referendum proposal is going to be defeated by a couple of percentage points. Not a comfortable victory but such is the way of referendum campaigns. The timely intervention of Gordon Brown's Devo Max plan to stem the surge of support last week saved the day. Brown to be next Scottish First Minister?

 

On the Ireland-Norn Iron border, there were custom booths and checkpoints for many decades, but it was still unsurprisingly a porous border.

 

Brown is done he has said , did his part for sake of his childrens future but no desire to return to front line politics ...well that's his line tonight anyway.

 

 

Oh you never know, he might have one eye on a return

[KennyPowers]

Is anyone else a little surprised that a higher % isn't required for independence?

If it is 50-50 as it very well might be then it seems sensible to have a re-vote rather than let one side win by a few hundred votes. 

 

I understand the concept of a referendum but if say 55% was required for independence that would seem to make sense for such a huge change.

[MakemineVanilla]

 

Is anyone else a little surprised that a higher % isn't required for independence?

If it is 50-50 as it very well might be then it seems sensible to have a re-vote rather than let one side win by a few hundred votes. 

 

I understand the concept of a referendum but if say 55% was required for independence that would seem to make sense for such a huge change.

 

 

Amazed!

[Nabby]

 

Is anyone else a little surprised that a higher % isn't required for independence?

If it is 50-50 as it very well might be then it seems sensible to have a re-vote rather than let one side win by a few hundred votes. 

 

I understand the concept of a referendum but if say 55% was required for independence that would seem to make sense for such a huge change.

 

 

Up there with letting 16 year old vote in the WTF was Cameron thinking when he agreed to it 

[chrisp65]

But wouldn't requiring a higher % mean potentially building in minority rule? Set the bar at, say 55% and the minority 46% have an unfair control over the majority. 

[KennyPowers]

 

 

Is anyone else a little surprised that a higher % isn't required for independence?

If it is 50-50 as it very well might be then it seems sensible to have a re-vote rather than let one side win by a few hundred votes. 

 

I understand the concept of a referendum but if say 55% was required for independence that would seem to make sense for such a huge change.

 

 

Amazed!

 

Amazed why. If it is say 49.5% to 50.5% then it would be hard to say either side has won. 

That kind of result would indicate a deeply divided nation. I would say in such a situation (say less than 1% difference) would call for a re-vote within 10 years. 

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

They let 16 year olds vote?

 

Well, that's one way to cancel out the pensioners!

[Demitri_C]

seeing one scot lambasting a small group of no voters "what have the english ever done for fa us" he screams makes me think sod them

 

after doing a lot of research on this today it seems there is so many black holes its frightening for the scots if they go independent. i cant believe over 40% of the scottish population are stupid enough to vote yes. i wont have any sympathy for any of those fools when it goes tits up if the yes vote wins

[tonyh29]

On the border crossing, in Ireland it is an EU country to an EU country.

Scotland would potentially be a non-EU state into the EU. So I can't see how in those circumstances, one wouldn't be required.

Can you genuinely see the UK government investing in the infrastructure to build booths on all motorways, A roads and B roads plus monitoring the countryside, building train stops and adding coast guard to the local harbours to stop people popping up or down to see their relatives?

No, there'll be 17 additional customs officers allocated to stop every 20th consignment of dodgy fags or Irn Bru plus regular infomercial articles on the One Show about how we monitor the border.

Isn't the problem that Scotland would have an open immigration policy ( or so the rumours say ) and thus anyone could just walk into Scotland and then walk into England (illegally ) if there was no border ?

[kidlewis]

from what I have read economically they are reliant on obtaining all the North Sea Oil or pretty much having zero defence budget or tax rises or slashing public spending even further. 

 

Interesting that Shetland had a vote some time ago on being in the UK and it was a resounding YES. then I read that they could vote to go independent from an independent Scotland. Wouldn't that mean those islands would then end up with plenty of the Oil reserves?

[dAVe80]

[chrisp65]

 

 

Is anyone else a little surprised that a higher % isn't required for independence?

If it is 50-50 as it very well might be then it seems sensible to have a re-vote rather than let one side win by a few hundred votes. 

 

I understand the concept of a referendum but if say 55% was required for independence that would seem to make sense for such a huge change.

 

 

Up there with letting 16 year old vote in the WTF was Cameron thinking when he agreed to it 

 

 

I agree it was a spectacularly risky move to allow 16's and 17's to vote on this most important issue as a first experiment in extending democracy. But as a principle, if you can be married and wearing a military uniform and paying taxes, you should be able to vote.