lexicon Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Cahill wasn't stuck behind better CB's though. He was stuck behind Zat Knight and Curtis Davis. I don't think I'l ever get over MONs decision to sell Cahill to Bolton. Mellberg and Laursen? At that time, Davies was rated by a lot of people as being a better player - things didn't turn out that way but potential is an incredibly difficult thing to gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 I think this is a bad move personally because terry wont play every week meaning we have to rely on a samba chester partnership. at least with chester and baker they have played together and got a good understanding. I really do think this could be a mistake 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: What's your point? That he won't be looking to build a footballing team or even think about long term. It's all about effective football to get us promoted this season. The trouble is football has moved on from effective football in the Championship. Teams have shown that you need to play fluent football to do well in the league and score lots of goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, lexicon said: Mellberg and Laursen? At that time, Davies was rated by a lot of people as being a better player - things didn't turn out that way but potential is an incredibly difficult thing to gauge. I think with Cahill you could see he was something special. I remember at the time telling friends he was the next John Terry. We all saw this. I just find it astonishing that a top Premier League manager could let a player with so much potential go so cheap. Loan him out if you have to but you can not sell such a gem! But we're going off topic so I'll just add that it would be a shame if we sell Baker but at 26 if he wants first team football and the price is right its the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Think its time he moved on. He owes Villa nothing, always put his head in where most wouldn't, probably why he was out every 3 to 4 weeks. Unfortunately we have to trim the squad and we aren't going to get rid of Richards. We have plenty of cover, players in other positions able to cover and also the likes of Tonner for cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 28, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 28, 2017 1 minute ago, omariqy said: That he won't be looking to build a footballing team or even think about long term. It's all about effective football to get us promoted this season. The trouble is football has moved on from effective football in the Championship. Teams have shown that you need to play fluent football to do well in the league and score lots of goals. I disagree with this almost entirely. I'm not saying Bruce doesn't play "effective football" at times, but I don't believe in this cliche that he deliberately wants his teams to hoof the ball up the pitch. You only had to watch him last season and how angry he gets on the sideline when people like Baker are just hoofing it up the pitch. He definitely wants to make us play less like that. I believe that 100%. Whether he can or not is another question 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Strange one as Terry and Samba ain't got the legs for a circa 50 games this season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Just now, Vive_La_Villa said: I think with Cahill you could see he was something special. I remember at the time telling friends he was the next John Terry. We all saw this. I just find it astonishing that a top Premier League manager could let a player with so much potential go so cheap. Loan him out if you have to but you can not sell such a gem! But we're going off topic so I'll just add that it would be a shame if we sell Baker but at 26 if he wants first team football and the price is right its the right thing to do. A lot of people said exactly the same thing at the time about Cahill though, to be fair. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that I think Baker is going to reach close to those kind of heights but I think he'll have a decent career, all in all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, lexicon said: Well it is - he's generally rated at the moment as being a part of the future and a good option, stuck behind arguably better CBs and doesn't want to be 3rd or 4th fiddle. Ok sorry, it is shades you're right - but for me it's at a much, much lesser level. Cahill was sold when he was 22 and showing promise as a Premier League defender. It was utter madness that we sold him. Nathan whilst being with the club a long time and playing a lot of first team games, is still at 26 seen as a decent back-up. Be honest, if we go up and Terry/Samba leave, would you be happy going into that first season in the Prem with a centre back pairing of Chester and Baker? Or is it more likely that Chester is kept as the constant and we sign a new CB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Unless we are getting a great offer I could rather he stick around, he is still a decent option and I imagine isn't earning huge money. If he could pass he would be great but his use of the ball, and the speed he does it is just terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Bit surprised by this. Hope we're still shifting Elphick but if so we'll need another CB now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Just now, lexicon said: A lot of people said exactly the same thing at the time about Cahill though, to be fair. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that I think Baker is going to reach close to those kind of heights but I think he'll have a decent career, all in all. I think he's at his level to be honest. Maybe could hold his own as a squad player in a bottom half of Premier League if could stay fit. I guess thats a pretty decent career for a player but Villa as a club need to be aiming higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Just now, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said: Ok sorry, it is shades you're right - but for me it's at a much, much lesser level. Cahill was sold when he was 22 and showing promise as a Premier League defender. It was utter madness that we sold him. Nathan whilst being with the club a long time and playing a lot of first team games, is still at 26 seen as a decent back-up. Be honest, if we go up and Terry/Samba leave, would you be happy going into that first season in the Prem with a centre back pairing of Chester and Baker? Or is it more likely that Chester is kept as the constant and we sign a new CB? I think the important distinction was that Cahill wanted out and that was the driving force for the move. Had he been content to stick around for another season as a rotation player, things could well have been different. As for the question of Chester and Baker... that's a difficult one to answer. If they'd had a very good season together and functioned well as partners, then I'd be OK with it, but to be honest, all signs point to us spending big again and another big change if/when we go up. In any case, we'll have to sign players anyway with JT and CS being too old - so it makes sense to upgrade. Hard to say really, a hell of a lot of theoretical factors here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 The other concerning thing for me is that terry and samba are both on one year contracts so we may need two brand new cbs next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: Unless we are getting a great offer I could rather he stick around, he is still a decent option and I imagine isn't earning huge money. If he could pass he would be great but his use of the ball, and the speed he does it is just terrible. I here a lot about his passing but I don't think its actually that bad. HIs biggest problem for me is his turn of pace. If we play a higher line and get caught on the break when balls are played through or over the top and strikers are running at him he seems to struggle. When he can play deep and deal with balls in or block shots he excels. Now I know I Terry and Samba could also struggling in this area but I think their excellent reading of the game compensates for lack of pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Didnt Bruce say he saw Baker as a back up LB if/when Amavi and Cissokho are gone? Who's the back up there now then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Just now, StewieGriffin said: Didnt Bruce say he saw Baker as a back up LB if/when Amavi and Cissokho are gone? Who's the back up there now then? De Laet probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Also this is not a criticism but does anyone else think he seems to be devoid of any emotion? He is kind of like a robot programmed to stop goals. Does he ever speak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 I like the lad in as much as he has a good attitude.....I too think he has hit his level and its clear at times the errors he has in him. I also think we have gone down and down in increments as we have signed players over the last umpteen years that has landed us where we are......I think we are now growing slowly in increments and the other CB's are more rounded than Baker in their overall game. He has a great heart, but lacks in positional sense that sometimes gets him hurt in recovering. I think it is a sensible move for all concerned and opens the way for that growth in quality we need to get back, when we replace the older ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted July 28, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 28, 2017 Really surprised at this too. We were perfectly set at the back for the log season IMO, this move would mean we aren't! Surely keeping him for the season makes more sense than bringing in a few million into the coffers? i understand the need to lighten the squad and that getting rid of the likes of Richards may not be possible but is it really worth the prospect of having to rely on him or elphick should the worst happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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