The RJW63 Official Jack Grealish Appreciation Thread

[Phil Silvers]

Just now, The_Steve said:

Any excuse for Sky to tell Villa fans “know your place” as they boot lick those who joined the ESL because they are so desperate to keep their failing monopoly 

This ^^^

[The Fun Factory]

32 minutes ago, It's Your Round said:

Jamie Carragher, what a rocket polisher. I wouldn’t take anything he spits out seriously.

I see what you did there.

[JoshVilla]

So much has already been said and there's not really much else to say, but just to get it off my chest...

The thing that seems to wind people up the most is the fact that we had a project going on, and fans truly believed that everyone in the club bought into it. We had a Villa fan captain, Villa fan manager, we were trending upwards with our owners ready to invest and take us to the next level. When Jack said that he saw his future here and that he fully believed in the project, it just added to that warm fuzzy feeling about the club that had been missing for over a decade. When he left, it was another slap in the face, another reality check that the clubs outside of the greedy 6 will not realistically be able to compete. The subsequent news that came out about his request for the release clause, him pretty much having one foot out the door on 2 other occasions (with the club being stubborn enough to keep hold of him, rather than him choosing to stay out of loyalty), all this just adds up to an even bigger kick in the nuts.

The fact that he chose to go to City just made it worse. A club that encompasses everything that is wrong about the modern game. A club that, not too long ago, was the target of fake outrage from the media about the ESL stuff, only to be fawned over again when they were spending £100m on a player that they didn't need. They would win trophies with or without Jack (though maybe not this season, lol).

This is what these pundits don't get. People watch sports in general for the romanticism and belief that your team might truly achieve something. When potentially the most talented player that the club has ever produced gets plucked away by a disgusting cash cow club like City, not a year after said player declares that their future lies here, it's another nail in the coffin of true competitiveness, and the dream that we might finally reach the top table again.

We might still get there, but it was yet another set back, and just makes you feel that the same thing will happen again if another one of our players shines and fires us into the top half. It's a never ending cycle that companies like Sky are all too happy to keep in motion. 

The boos probably weren't just for Jack alone. They come from a much deeper frustration. As much as the pundits can try to tell us how we should feel (which they did plenty of before the game), to say that "well you got 100m out of it so you should be happy" completely misses the point. £100m is no guarantee of success. Sometimes good players don't work out, sometimes the chemistry isn't right. We had a formula that was sending us in the right direction, and could have sent us further with a few smart additions.

If they want us to know our place...well...we do know it. We're a proper football club, with a proper stadium, passionate fans and some ambition to get back to where we should be. We're not going to apologise for that.

[villaglint]

Spot on @JoshVilla. This plus the fact that as much as he talks about being a Villa fan he has also talked pretty openly now about nearly leaving every summer for the last 3 summers. Spurs, Man Utd and then City. 

It is totally fair that he was too good for us for most of that time. 

But what it all boils down to for me is that his ambition to play for England and be the big time "name" ended up mattering more to him than playing for Villa. In terms of a career that is totally fine but doesnt make him much of a "fan" in my book. 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by villaglint

[Talldarkandransome]

1 hour ago, It's Your Round said:

Jamie Carragher, what a rocket polisher. I wouldn’t take anything he spits out seriously.

Haha, just thought didnt he spit out of his car window at a fan. **** total and utter ****

[DJ_Villain]

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

There's a part of this that's not down to him.

Watching the media reaction and the pundits that are having a go at the fans for booing, it seems that there's a lack of understanding out there about how Villa fans see Villa and therefore how Villa fans see Jack leaving in comparison to how the rest of football see it.

There's a feeling from the pundits that they can't understand why we, the Villa fans, don't "get it".

Plucky Villa have been lucky enough to have a superstar play with us for a couple of years before his natural rise to one of the great big successful teams, and we've got a hundred million pounds for him too, it's a dream come true for a club like ours.

That's genuinely how a lot of people in the game see this. Just typing it out gets my blood up a bit.

But that's not on Jack, it's actually on me, it's on perception. I support Aston Villa football club, one of the biggest clubs in England and one that hasn't been in its natural place in the game for a number of years. This is a bigger club than City, it's a bigger club than Chelsea, it's a bigger club than Spurs - that's my starting point. 

There's a massive gap in perception there and it's one where the modern pundit chuckles at me like I'm deranged and where they simply can't understand why Villa fans would be furious that Jack has jumped from a giant to a club that's just temporary money.

They ask why we're booing because they have no understanding of Villa fans, of our club, of our expectations and of the way we see ourselves.

I have a huge chip on my shoulder about how this club is considered by the wider football world, a massive sense that we're undervalued, underrated, too easily dismissed. It doesn't mean they don't have a point, but it does mean I hate that point and I'll argue it with them all day.

So Jack's leaving (and his return last night) isn't in itself cause for booing. He's a Villa fan, like it or not, he did some fantastic things for this club and I believe his feeling for the club is genuine - I'm not going to boo that and I didn't.

I am however going to rail against anyone that thinks that Villa should be happy, that this is some sort of natural order, that this is how things should be and that Villa fans that did boo should be ashamed. This ain't Norwich, we're not playing at a lower level where we're happy to understand that we aren't competing with the teams that buy our best players. I want to beat these and I want the idea of us beating these to become a regular possibility, not some weird underdog story.

I didn't boo Jack, but I'll quite happily tell those that think booing him is shameful and small time where they can stick their opinions on 'little' Villa and our place in the game. I'm not about booing a fan who has given us aa fair bit, but I'll fight to my last breath the idea that it's just the way it goes for "clubs like Villa".

 

 

Beautiful post!

Legendary!!!

[mikeyp102]

12 hours ago, Keyblade said:

I can understand not booing him, but clapping? It's a little too early for that no? He disrupted our preseason preparations with his move and possibly even our transfer business (the rushed Ings signing). He's also wearing the colours of the opposition team, coming on to kill the game off. Don't think it's quite the time to thank him for the memories.

Yep, I disagreed that the club’s official channels were showing videos of his best bits. I disagreed with the booing, and the clapping. I thought the renditions of Villa til I die were perfect. 

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

 

[CLARETANDBLUEFOXY]

1 hour ago, JoshVilla said:

So much has already been said and there's not really much else to say, but just to get it off my chest...

The thing that seems to wind people up the most is the fact that we had a project going on, and fans truly believed that everyone in the club bought into it. We had a Villa fan captain, Villa fan manager, we were trending upwards with our owners ready to invest and take us to the next level. When Jack said that he saw his future here and that he fully believed in the project, it just added to that warm fuzzy feeling about the club that had been missing for over a decade. When he left, it was another slap in the face, another reality check that the clubs outside of the greedy 6 will not realistically be able to compete. The subsequent news that came out about his request for the release clause, him pretty much having one foot out the door on 2 other occasions (with the club being stubborn enough to keep hold of him, rather than him choosing to stay out of loyalty), all this just adds up to an even bigger kick in the nuts.

The fact that he chose to go to City just made it worse. A club that encompasses everything that is wrong about the modern game. A club that, not too long ago, was the target of fake outrage from the media about the ESL stuff, only to be fawned over again when they were spending £100m on a player that they didn't need. They would win trophies with or without Jack (though maybe not this season, lol).

This is what these pundits don't get. People watch sports in general for the romanticism and belief that your team might truly achieve something. When potentially the most talented player that the club has ever produced gets plucked away by a disgusting cash cow club like City, not a year after said player declares that their future lies here, it's another nail in the coffin of true competitiveness, and the dream that we might finally reach the top table again.

We might still get there, but it was yet another set back, and just makes you feel that the same thing will happen again if another one of our players shines and fires us into the top half. It's a never ending cycle that companies like Sky are all too happy to keep in motion. 

The boos probably weren't just for Jack alone. They come from a much deeper frustration. As much as the pundits can try to tell us how we should feel (which they did plenty of before the game), to say that "well you got 100m out of it so you should be happy" completely misses the point. £100m is no guarantee of success. Sometimes good players don't work out, sometimes the chemistry isn't right. We had a formula that was sending us in the right direction, and could have sent us further with a few smart additions.

If they want us to know our place...well...we do know it. We're a proper football club, with a proper stadium, passionate fans and some ambition to get back to where we should be. We're not going to apologise for that.

This is exactly right. I could not have worded it better myself and all those people who clapped him yesterday and judge those of us that were booing and say he is welcome back need to read this for a reality check. I’ve read so much “only true fans clapped him last night” nope, true fans see it how you see it.  

Edited December 2, 2021 by CLARETANDBLUEFOXY

[HanoiVillan]

Okay, time to make myself (more) unpopular I guess:

I've read a few posts in these last few pages complaining about 'entitlement'; the entitlement felt by Manchester City (and Chelsea and Tottenham and whoever else) to our best players, and the entitlement demonstrated by Clinton Morrison is his 'what more do they want, they got £100m for him' cluelessness, and fans are not wrong to point out that entitlement. It's true that Man City have tended to help themselves to our best players as we were on the way up (though we really got a good price for this one); it's true that our main national footballing broadcaster is repellent in a number of ways, from their apex-predators-to-prey view of football clubs' role in the pyramid to their general worship of money to their garbage rolling news coverage that seems to be positively trying to sell our players at times. The complaints look like this (just an example from the same page):

2 hours ago, The_Steve said:

Any excuse for Sky to tell Villa fans “know your place” as they boot lick those who joined the ESL because they are so desperate to keep their failing monopoly 

But wait, not so fast - is there such a contrast? Because I don't recall very much sympathy on here for Championship clubs when we simply picked off their best players to build an absurd squad with an outrageously unsustainable and rule-breaking wage-to-turnover ratio. And I don't recall many people thinking it was outrageous that we could just buy Norwich's best player off them despite their promotion. And when Christian Purslow was on TalkSport disparaging the whole of English football below the Premier League, I seem to recall that I was one of a very small number of posters who felt that was crass, and that the dominant view in that thread was how lucky we are to have such a mean SOB as a CEO.

Similarly, I've read quite a few posts in these pages complaining about Jack's 'lack of loyalty', or that what he did might have made sense for his career but that doesn't make him a fan now does it:

2 hours ago, JoshVilla said:

The thing that seems to wind people up the most is the fact that we had a project going on, and fans truly believed that everyone in the club bought into it. We had a Villa fan captain, Villa fan manager, we were trending upwards with our owners ready to invest and take us to the next level. When Jack said that he saw his future here and that he fully believed in the project, it just added to that warm fuzzy feeling about the club that had been missing for over a decade.

 

2 hours ago, villaglint said:

Spot on @JoshVilla. This plus the fact that as much as he talks about being a Villa fan he has also talked pretty openly now about nearly leaving every summer for the last 3 summers. Spurs, Man Utd and then City. 

It is totally fair that he was too good for us for most of that time. 

But what it all boils down to for me is that his ambition to play for England and be the big time "name" ended up mattering more to him than playing for Villa. In terms of a career that is totally fine but doesnt make him much of a "fan" in my book.

. . . and this isn't wrong; while Jack is a fan, he is also a professional footballer, and it's true and fair enough to point out that he and his representatives had previously looked at ways for him to move on, and it is true and fair enough to point out that he had the release clause added to his contract for a reason, and that he did, in fact, leave when the club had had its best season in a decade and there was a positive feeling about the place. But wait, not so fast, is there such a contrast? Because I don't recall masses of 'loyalty' being shown to our 'Villa fan manager' when he committed the crime of losing 5 Premier League matches in a row. Now, some of you might be thinking, 'but I was one of the ones who didn't think he should be sacked'. Fine: would you have maintained that posture if we'd lost 10 in a row? If we'd been relegated? If we'd been relegated, and then finished mid-table in the Championship? What 'loyalty' do we show to managers? What 'loyalty' did we show to Villa fan Marc Albrighton? I remember posting On Here the season he left, and while there were some of us who felt he was under-used by Lambert and should be offered a new deal, as I recall the dominant feeling was that he was shit and we should be doing better. How much 'loyalty' would fans have showed Jack Grealish, if he was as good at football as Keinan Davis, or if he had an injury record like Darren Anderton? How much 'loyalty' do we as a club show to youngsters, some of them supporters of the club, who get cut from the academy every year?

So what, you might be thinking, football fans are hypocrites, what's new? Well, nothing, and this doesn't matter - it's just noise, in every sense of the word. But it does get tiresome to keep reading about how him leaving is some kind of terrible betrayal. It's just self-serving rubbish. Just as you might correctly point out that we are not a charity for underperforming players or managers, Jack Grealish can correctly point out that he didn't need to charitably donate his footballing talents to a worse team than he could get. If you want Corinthian amateurism, set up a local tiddlywinks league.

Edited December 2, 2021 by HanoiVillan

[VillaJ100]

4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

There's a part of this that's not down to him.

Watching the media reaction and the pundits that are having a go at the fans for booing, it seems that there's a lack of understanding out there about how Villa fans see Villa and therefore how Villa fans see Jack leaving in comparison to how the rest of football see it.

There's a feeling from the pundits that they can't understand why we, the Villa fans, don't "get it".

Plucky Villa have been lucky enough to have a superstar play with us for a couple of years before his natural rise to one of the great big successful teams, and we've got a hundred million pounds for him too, it's a dream come true for a club like ours.

That's genuinely how a lot of people in the game see this. Just typing it out gets my blood up a bit.

But that's not on Jack, it's actually on me, it's on perception. I support Aston Villa football club, one of the biggest clubs in England and one that hasn't been in its natural place in the game for a number of years. This is a bigger club than City, it's a bigger club than Chelsea, it's a bigger club than Spurs - that's my starting point. 

There's a massive gap in perception there and it's one where the modern pundit chuckles at me like I'm deranged and where they simply can't understand why Villa fans would be furious that Jack has jumped from a giant to a club that's just temporary money.

They ask why we're booing because they have no understanding of Villa fans, of our club, of our expectations and of the way we see ourselves.

I have a huge chip on my shoulder about how this club is considered by the wider football world, a massive sense that we're undervalued, underrated, too easily dismissed. It doesn't mean they don't have a point, but it does mean I hate that point and I'll argue it with them all day.

So Jack's leaving (and his return last night) isn't in itself cause for booing. He's a Villa fan, like it or not, he did some fantastic things for this club and I believe his feeling for the club is genuine - I'm not going to boo that and I didn't.

I am however going to rail against anyone that thinks that Villa should be happy, that this is some sort of natural order, that this is how things should be and that Villa fans that did boo should be ashamed. This ain't Norwich, we're not playing at a lower level where we're happy to understand that we aren't competing with the teams that buy our best players. I want to beat these and I want the idea of us beating these to become a regular possibility, not some weird underdog story.

I didn't boo Jack, but I'll quite happily tell those that think booing him is shameful and small time where they can stick their opinions on 'little' Villa and our place in the game. I'm not about booing a fan who has given us aa fair bit, but I'll fight to my last breath the idea that it's just the way it goes for "clubs like Villa".

 

Hear hear. We were statistically at least the best and most successful team in the country for 70 YEARS. It feels like it was at the wrong time, but then again no money can buy that history.

[VillaJ100]

1 hour ago, Talldarkandransome said:

Haha, just thought didnt he spit out of his car window at a fan. **** total and utter ****

It was a young teenage girl as well

[KentVillan]

The more I think about it, the booing was really small time and very "jilted lover" who hasn't got over it yet.

IMO right response was to just ignore him. Good player, he's made his bed now, we've moved on. We look better without him now tbh, much more balanced, and less "JGFC" as someone else said.

It's taken a bit of shine off what was a very good 2nd half performance from us. Some real pivotal moments for a few players - those were stellar performances from Douglas Luiz and Watkins, and none of Buendia, Nakamba, McGinn or Chukwuemeka looked out of place. The future is very bright at Villa.

[Phil Silvers]

52 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Okay, time to make myself (more) unpopular I guess:

I've read a few posts in these last few pages complaining about 'entitlement'; the entitlement felt by Manchester City (and Chelsea and Tottenham and whoever else) to our best players, and the entitlement demonstrated by Clinton Morrison is his 'what more do they want, they got £100m for him' cluelessness, and fans are not wrong to point out that entitlement. It's true that Man City have tended to help themselves to our best players as we were on the way up (though we really got a good price for this one); it's true that our main national footballing broadcaster is repellent in a number of ways, from their apex-predators-to-prey view of football clubs' role in the pyramid to their general worship of money to their garbage rolling news coverage that seems to be positively trying to sell our players at times. The complaints look like this (just an example from the same page):

But wait, not so fast - is there such a contrast? Because I don't recall very much sympathy on here for Championship clubs when we simply picked off their best players to build an absurd squad with an outrageously unsustainable and rule-breaking wage-to-turnover ratio. And I don't recall many people thinking it was outrageous that we could just buy Norwich's best player off them despite their promotion. And when Christian Purslow was on TalkSport disparaging the whole of English football below the Premier League, I seem to recall that I was one of a very small number of posters who felt that was crass, and that the dominant view in that thread was how lucky we are to have such a mean SOB as a CEO.

Similarly, I've read quite a few posts in these pages complaining about Jack's 'lack of loyalty', or that what he did might have made sense for his career but that doesn't make him a fan now does it:

 

. . . and this isn't wrong; while Jack is a fan, he is also a professional footballer, and it's true and fair enough to point out that he and his representatives had previously looked at ways for him to move on, and it is true and fair enough to point out that he had the release clause added to his contract for a reason, and that he did, in fact, leave when the club had had its best season in a decade and there was a positive feeling about the place. But wait, not so fast, is there such a contrast? Because I don't recall masses of 'loyalty' being shown to our 'Villa fan manager' when he committed the crime of losing 5 Premier League matches in a row. Now, some of you might be thinking, 'but I was one of the ones who didn't think he should be sacked'. Fine: would you have maintained that posture if we'd lost 10 in a row? If we'd been relegated? If we'd been relegated, and then finished mid-table in the Championship? What 'loyalty' do we show to managers? What 'loyalty' did we show to Villa fan Marc Albrighton? I remember posting On Here the season he left, and while there were some of us who felt he was under-used by Lambert and should be offered a new deal, as I recall the dominant feeling was that he was shit and we should be doing better. How much 'loyalty' would fans have showed Jack Grealish, if he was as good at football as Keinan Davis, or if he had an injury record like Darren Anderton? How much 'loyalty' do we as a club show to youngsters, some of them supporters of the club, who get cut from the academy every year?

So what, you might be thinking, football fans are hypocrites, what's new? Well, nothing, and this doesn't matter - it's just noise, in every sense of the word. But it does get tiresome to keep reading about how him leaving is some kind of terrible betrayal. It's just self-serving rubbish. Just as you might correctly point out that we are not a charity for underperforming players or managers, Jack Grealish can correctly point out that he didn't need to charitably donate his footballing talents to a worse team than he could get. If you want Corinthian amateurism, set up a local tiddlywinks league.

Nice try Mr Hanoi but there's no point even trying to rationalize it or even try to understand one side or the other, the Jack/Villa/citeh situation is unique, there's never been anything like it. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Phil Silvers

[KentVillan]

51 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

Nice try Mr Hanoi but there's no point even trying to rationalize it or even try to understand one side or the other, the Jack/Villa/citeh situation is unique, there's never been anything like it. 

I mean no doubt there were a *lot* of Villa fans who thought he'd be our Totti. I definitely bought into it, despite being old enough to know better.

It did **** sting when he moved on. But I felt like the booing was a bit pointless, because although we all know he's a bit of a fraud and a snake, the narrative in the wider media is that he stuck by us through thick and thin. Just made us look smalltime.

[Phil Silvers]

1 minute ago, KentVillan said:

I mean no doubt there were a *lot* of Villa fans who thought he'd be our Totti. I definitely bought into it, despite being old enough to know better.

It did **** sting when he moved on. But I felt like the booing was a bit pointless, because although we all know he's a bit of a fraud and a snake, the narrative in the wider media is that he stuck by us through thick and thin. Just made us look smalltime.

He should have been treated as just another player the opposition's squad, no booing (smalltime and childish), no clapping (he's not a retired Villa legend), for once the power was with us and we could have given the media nothing to report, how sweet would that have been.

[Mark Albrighton]

I don’t really disagree with much of that @HanoiVillan

I would say that while Villa did throw the cash around in that first season in the championship in a Billy big bollocks way it has to be said, on the surface, Villa probably “needed” Kodjia, Adomah, even McCormack etc than City “needed” Grealish. I honestly think that’s part of it for people, the big kid taking away the other kid’s shiny toy so they don’t have it anymore.

As you point out, there’s a certain hypocrisy or inconsistency to this. Buendia was kinda like Norwich’s Grealish and we took him off them. However, again I would say we needed him more than City with Grealish. But yeah it’s a food chain and Villa play their part as both predator and prey.

And yeah, I think Marc Albrighton was treated pretty shoddily by the club. I think that’s widely agreed upon and he certainly had the last laugh. 

It’s not so much the loyalty (or lack of). It’s the telling supporters how they’re meant to feel which grates on me. Not that much, but enough to make me post in this thread around this match. Whether it comes from the Grealish camp (seemingly) or the pundits. When Villa head to Carrow Road, will Norwich fans boo Buendia? Will their supporters be told how grateful they should be that he got them promoted not once but twice? I don’t know, but however their supporters react is up to them. I wouldn’t feel the need to explain to them why their anger at him leaving is misplaced and wrong. If they boo him, they boo him. 

It’s part of the game. It’s all panto, ultimately.

[Keyblade]

Pretty sure every half decent former player who left when the fans didn't want them to get booed. Van Persie, Nasri, Fabregas, Modric, Suarez, pretty sure even Ronaldo got booed initially. The pearl clutching by the pundits is so disingenuous. It wasn't even that bad. It was about the most mixed reaction I've heard in football. It certainly wasn't a Delph type situation. We even had some people clapping him which I don't think I've ever seen.

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Pretty sure every half decent former player who left when the fans didn't want them to get booed. Van Persie, Nasri, Fabregas, Modric, Suarez, pretty sure even Ronaldo got booed initially. The pearl clutching by the pundits is so disingenuous. It wasn't even that bad. It was about the most mixed reaction I've heard in football. It certainly wasn't a Delph type situation. We even had some people clapping him which I don't think I've ever seen.

Think it depends on the booing, mostly if move in the same league . Fabregas got booed for going to Chelsea 

Benteke and Milner are two that dont get booed at Villa 

[Mark Albrighton]

17 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Pretty sure every half decent former player who left when the fans didn't want them to get booed. Van Persie, Nasri, Fabregas, Modric, Suarez, pretty sure even Ronaldo got booed initially. The pearl clutching by the pundits is so disingenuous. It wasn't even that bad. It was about the most mixed reaction I've heard in football. It certainly wasn't a Delph type situation. We even had some people clapping him which I don't think I've ever seen.

There’s a few factors all at play.

To a lot of people Man City embody what’s wrong with football.

Villa building something and an important part being removed from that.

The media to an extent telling us how we should feel about it.

Jack Grealish, local lad, captain, team built around him goes to a club where he will never be as adored as he was here.

Grealish’s previous utterances of how much it means to be at Villa.

Because of those last two in particular, he is going to held to a higher standard of loyalty. Look at Tammy Abraham. He received a wonderful reception at Villa Park on his return. Apart from his less than a year long loan spell, he has no affiliation with the club whatsoever. 

It’s because he’s not held to the same standard as a Villa supporting player. To me it makes both no sense and all the sense in the world at the same time.

As others have said, the “Villa til I die” chant was excellent, if it had just been that and no booing, it would have been perfect.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Mark Albrighton