Panto_Villan Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: I didn't boo Jack, but I'll quite happily tell those that think booing him is shameful and small time where they can stick their opinions on 'little' Villa and our place in the game. I'm not about booing a fan who has given us aa fair bit, but I'll fight to my last breath the idea that it's just the way it goes for "clubs like Villa". I kinda think the booing is shameful, but only because I agree with you - the problem here isn't really Jack, but a lot of the people booing him genuinely seem to think it is. They lack the self-awareness that a fan like you has, that our perception of the stature of Aston Villa isn't shared by the rest of the footballing world, and therefore it's unreasonable to expect professional footballers to act as if the perception in our heads is actually reality. Jack is the one who has to deal with the fact that in reality City are currently a "bigger" club than Villa in every footballing metric. Of course, I'm fine with people booing in a pantomime sense because that's part of the atmosphere of live sports. I'd actually be fine with the booing if I'd not seen some of the things written in this thread about Jack and his family, as I'd assume people didn't actually genuinely hate him - but it seems like some do, which means the booing to me seems much more sinister. You don't need to love Jack, nor even like him. I don't really like him any more. Actually hating him is a wee bit disturbing though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 47 minutes ago, KentVillan said: I mean no doubt there were a *lot* of Villa fans who thought he'd be our Totti. I definitely bought into it, despite being old enough to know better. It did **** sting when he moved on. But I felt like the booing was a bit pointless, because although we all know he's a bit of a fraud and a snake, the narrative in the wider media is that he stuck by us through thick and thin. Just made us look smalltime. The Totti comparison is a bit unfair on Jack as he had already won Serie A, played lots of international, Champions League and UEFA Cup football by 24/25. Jack had almost zero of that til the move, playing 3 years in the Championship and a couple of relegation battles. Realistically he would be 28 or older before we are ready for even Europa League. Anyway it's easy putting things into context but at the end of the day a lot of fans are 'you're either us, or them' which is fair enough really and Jack will have to accept he will get a rough time from a significant part of our fanbase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: The Totti comparison is a bit unfair on Jack as he had already won Serie A, played lots of international, Champions League and UEFA Cup football by 24/25. Jack had almost zero of that til the move, playing 3 years in the Championship and a couple of relegation battles. Realistically he would be 28 or older before we are ready for even Europa League. Anyway it's easy putting things into context but at the end of the day a lot of fans are 'you're either us, or them' which is fair enough really and Jack will have to accept he will get a rough time from a significant part of our fanbase. I agree, but treating Jack as if he’s down there with Robbie Savage, etc is a bit harsh. I don’t care about him really, just thinking about us as a club and what sort of club we want to be. Do we want to be like Spurs who *still* sing racist homophobic songs about Sol Campbell for going to Arsenal? What Jack does need to learn is that the love has gone. It was all based on him sticking by us and helping us progress. He may feel that the £100m was his parting gift to us, I suppose. Edited December 2, 2021 by KentVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted December 2, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2021 7 hours ago, Nigel said: Anyone moaning at other fans reactions get a grip; What right do you have to tell everyone how they must feel? Every clap, every boo and the passion in the song was wholly deserved from people fully entwined in the club. Our club Our feelings Our Villa till we die 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted December 2, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2021 7 hours ago, Phil Silvers said: This ^^^ I suspect we have a manager who may well try to smash this mold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Just the ten pages to get through today 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 4 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Okay, time to make myself (more) unpopular I guess: I've read a few posts in these last few pages complaining about 'entitlement'; the entitlement felt by Manchester City (and Chelsea and Tottenham and whoever else) to our best players, and the entitlement demonstrated by Clinton Morrison is his 'what more do they want, they got £100m for him' cluelessness, and fans are not wrong to point out that entitlement. It's true that Man City have tended to help themselves to our best players as we were on the way up (though we really got a good price for this one); it's true that our main national footballing broadcaster is repellent in a number of ways, from their apex-predators-to-prey view of football clubs' role in the pyramid to their general worship of money to their garbage rolling news coverage that seems to be positively trying to sell our players at times. The complaints look like this (just an example from the same page): But wait, not so fast - is there such a contrast? Because I don't recall very much sympathy on here for Championship clubs when we simply picked off their best players to build an absurd squad with an outrageously unsustainable and rule-breaking wage-to-turnover ratio. And I don't recall many people thinking it was outrageous that we could just buy Norwich's best player off them despite their promotion. And when Christian Purslow was on TalkSport disparaging the whole of English football below the Premier League, I seem to recall that I was one of a very small number of posters who felt that was crass, and that the dominant view in that thread was how lucky we are to have such a mean SOB as a CEO. Similarly, I've read quite a few posts in these pages complaining about Jack's 'lack of loyalty', or that what he did might have made sense for his career but that doesn't make him a fan now does it: . . . and this isn't wrong; while Jack is a fan, he is also a professional footballer, and it's true and fair enough to point out that he and his representatives had previously looked at ways for him to move on, and it is true and fair enough to point out that he had the release clause added to his contract for a reason, and that he did, in fact, leave when the club had had its best season in a decade and there was a positive feeling about the place. But wait, not so fast, is there such a contrast? Because I don't recall masses of 'loyalty' being shown to our 'Villa fan manager' when he committed the crime of losing 5 Premier League matches in a row. Now, some of you might be thinking, 'but I was one of the ones who didn't think he should be sacked'. Fine: would you have maintained that posture if we'd lost 10 in a row? If we'd been relegated? If we'd been relegated, and then finished mid-table in the Championship? What 'loyalty' do we show to managers? What 'loyalty' did we show to Villa fan Marc Albrighton? I remember posting On Here the season he left, and while there were some of us who felt he was under-used by Lambert and should be offered a new deal, as I recall the dominant feeling was that he was shit and we should be doing better. How much 'loyalty' would fans have showed Jack Grealish, if he was as good at football as Keinan Davis, or if he had an injury record like Darren Anderton? How much 'loyalty' do we as a club show to youngsters, some of them supporters of the club, who get cut from the academy every year? So what, you might be thinking, football fans are hypocrites, what's new? Well, nothing, and this doesn't matter - it's just noise, in every sense of the word. But it does get tiresome to keep reading about how him leaving is some kind of terrible betrayal. It's just self-serving rubbish. Just as you might correctly point out that we are not a charity for underperforming players or managers, Jack Grealish can correctly point out that he didn't need to charitably donate his footballing talents to a worse team than he could get. If you want Corinthian amateurism, set up a local tiddlywinks league. Jack and Buendia aren’t comparable transfers for me, whilst I agree with a few of your points I wouldn’t say Buendia was ever Norwich’s Grealish - and importantly acted like it. He came from Getafe. A transfer free was agreed without any real protracted sagas. Norwich were happy and so were we. The cycle of football you’re correct works that way sure, Buendia didn’t BS the fans or insult their intelligence. What grates people is the dumb duplicity that Jack puts on. It’s flogging a dead horse. Sky will always favour the elite clubs. We’ve never been a fashionable club to them. In the end, this whole situation became a circus and the Jack show. A lot of it pushed by the media for clicks and self-interest. Jack has a lot of value now relative to his time here. They have an interest in protecting that. The argument about booing or not is one of the most trite arguments in football. The faux outrage is to get clicks and tell fan bases they have no interest in what to feel. For me, it’s this heavy handed paternalism. I said it before and I repeat: I wish Jack just opened up and admitted he always wanted to leave rather than act like getting the club was £100m was a noble deed. Thank you for taking the time to engage with a range of opinions on this issue - and I equally appreciate the time and thought you put it into yours - even if we disagree I do really value these sorts of constructive discussions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 8 hours ago, meregreen said: There are many great players who have left their former clubs. Dalglish, Gascoigne, Keegan, Ronaldo etc. Yet they are still appreciated at those clubs for what they did when they were there and are shown respect. To those that barracked a player who stood by us when we needed him most, and helped us out of the abyss we faced a few seasons ago, shame on you. I clapped Jack, along with many others I might add. Lot of self righteous claptrap from those who barracked him. You mean we all stood by him as he got pissed up, crashed cars and **** around, and when we had done enough to support him through that and his value skyrocketed, he wanted out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 (edited) The Jack “stood by us when we got relegated ” line is absolute nonsense. Not one single approach was made for him by another club when we got relegated, no one wanted him. The first approach was Spurs and he wanted to go. The next approach was UTD, and he admitted a couple of days ago that he thought that would get done. The final approach was City and he left, due to the buyout clause he insisted on. So how was he loyal? He wanted to leave at every opportunity. Edited December 2, 2021 by av1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Just now, av1 said: The Jack “stood by us when we got relegated ” line is absolute nonsense. Not one single approach was made for him by another club, no one wanted him. The first approach was Spurs and he wanted to go. The next approach was UTD, and he admitted a couple of days ago that he thought that would get done. The final approach was City and he left, due to the buyout clause he insisted on. So how was he loyal? He wanted to leave at every opportunity. Shhh it negates their narrative 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Villain Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 46 minutes ago, nick76 said: Shhh it negates their narrative I’ll bet it makes their shit itch to write that Villa were the recipients of the record transfer fee… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 I maintain City got mugged off paying 100M for him. They can afford him of course but still, they overpaid imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJCB Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 1 hour ago, av1 said: The Jack “stood by us when we got relegated ” line is absolute nonsense. Not one single approach was made for him by another club when we got relegated, no one wanted him. The first approach was Spurs and he wanted to go. The next approach was UTD, and he admitted a couple of days ago that he thought that would get done. The final approach was City and he left, due to the buyout clause he insisted on. So how was he loyal? He wanted to leave at every opportunity. This, this, this again and again. on the same theme, this does also shed light that, while jack probs helped us more than we helped him in the end, we were way way more patient with him than other clubs might have been. the reason other clubs didn’t want him when we got relegated is cause his attitude stank and was holding back his talent. Just look back at some of the earlier pages in this thread during the relegation season and first championship season- there wasn’t a tone as if we were holding him back. Plenty of players slip down the ranks in those circumstances (ravel Morrison the most extreme that comes to mind). The club and the fans were more patient than anyone else would have been. to be fair I think jack gets this and acknowledges it. But the media narrative implies he was an immediate superstar that we were holding back for years- he only really gave us around 2 years (once you consider injuries) of top half PL form Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Xela Posted December 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said: I maintain City got mugged off paying 100M for him. They can afford him of course but still, they overpaid imho. I think he was worth more than £100m to us I don't think he's worth £100m in a Citeh shirt If that makes any sense?! 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post avfc1982am Posted December 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2021 Personally I've found the whole circus surrounding him and the PR this week embarrassing. The BS from his camp, the push from our club and the media to welcome him back like some long lost son has been pathetic. And the crazy thing is as much as a loss as he has been I'm glad he's finally taken the circus with him. Last night I booed loud and proud when he came on, sung VTID and loved every minute of it during the game. Why, because he was wearing the colours of the team we were playing against and was trying to help them beat us. The way I see it is for the 90min during the game all opposing players are fair game for a slagging. If other supporters don't agree, tough shit. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, Xela said: I think he was worth more than £100m to us I don't think he's worth £100m in a Citeh shirt If that makes any sense?! Makes perfect sense and I think you are spot on! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 2 hours ago, av1 said: The Jack “stood by us when we got relegated ” line is absolute nonsense. Not one single approach was made for him by another club when we got relegated, no one wanted him. The first approach was Spurs and he wanted to go. The next approach was UTD, and he admitted a couple of days ago that he thought that would get done. The final approach was City and he left, due to the buyout clause he insisted on. So how was he loyal? He wanted to leave at every opportunity. Nail on head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 1 hour ago, ciggiesnbeer said: I maintain City got mugged off paying 100M for him. They can afford him of course but still, they overpaid imho. It was the going price. They can afford it and it adds some nice marketing advantages. Whether he plays much or not is largely irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 3 hours ago, av1 said: The Jack “stood by us when we got relegated ” line is absolute nonsense. Not one single approach was made for him by another club when we got relegated, no one wanted him. The first approach was Spurs and he wanted to go. The next approach was UTD, and he admitted a couple of days ago that he thought that would get done. The final approach was City and he left, due to the buyout clause he insisted on. So how was he loyal? He wanted to leave at every opportunity. I dont dislike him but this is very true and its a huge myth. He barely played in our relegation season and the first Championship season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 17 minutes ago, Zatman said: I dont dislike him but this is very true and its a huge myth. He barely played in our relegation season and the first Championship season Jack owes a lot to Dean Smith imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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