Working from home - can it work?

[Seat68]

51 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

I think some of you need to grow some hairs on your chest and get yourself on the roofs this winter . 

I think the thing I have gathered from Villatalk is that roofers spend the majority of their time in pubs.

[bobzy]

I think I go against the grain here - I'd much rather be in the office.

Working from home has absolutely killed any sense of team or camaraderie in the office.  Further, there's a massive rotation of staff because anyone new joining just doesn't get a normal level of integration and feels excluded - they find a new job.  The office is a large building and probably at about 15% capacity generally.  We have to do 2 days in the office (which I think will be upped to 3) and the mandatory Monday when we're all in is great.  You can get things done so much more quickly when you can see a person and actually talk to them, reading their body language, rather than having to check a Teams status.

There are pros to working from home - and flexibility with kids is great - but it has absolutely sucked the life out of offices and the high street footfall, which is dying.

I'm amazed that the majority of people want to be soulless little robots at home.

[Wainy316]

10 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I think I go against the grain here - I'd much rather be in the office.

Working from home has absolutely killed any sense of team or camaraderie in the office.  Further, there's a massive rotation of staff because anyone new joining just doesn't get a normal level of integration and feels excluded - they find a new job.  The office is a large building and probably at about 15% capacity generally.  We have to do 2 days in the office (which I think will be upped to 3) and the mandatory Monday when we're all in is great.  You can get things done so much more quickly when you can see a person and actually talk to them, reading their body language, rather than having to check a Teams status.

There are pros to working from home - and flexibility with kids is great - but it has absolutely sucked the life out of offices and the high street footfall, which is dying.

I'm amazed that the majority of people want to be soulless little robots at home.

3 days in 2 days at home or vice versa is best

[Designer1]

10 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

3 days in 2 days at home or vice versa is best

Yeah this.

I do two days in the office at the moment (recently upped from one) and I think it's the perfect balance.

Doing the grim motorway journey every single day used to batter my MH, and as I spend most of my day looking at and writing code I need peace and quiet as much as possible which wfh provides (have my own office space upstairs).

I dont mind being in the office itself (once the shit journey is done with) and it's nice to chat with colleagues, but 2 days is more than enough for me and long may it continue.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Designer1

[mottaloo]

As @Xelastated on the previous page, it would be the travelling an hour each way in my case that would kill me. The comfort of my own home and i can log off from a night shift and be in bed seconds later esp in winter is great. 

The only down parts are missing the occasional office bantz (but NOT the MD on my shoulder asking if its fixed yet, fixed yet, fixed yet ???) coupled with my poor self discipline in trying to keep out of my kitchen and snacking too much. Put on 3 stone and I still find it difficult to resist toasted sandwiches at 3am.

Our contracts have been officially changed that we are 100% remote but could work on site if you want. 

Win win.

Edited October 17, 2023 by mottaloo

[Stevo985]

40 minutes ago, Designer1 said:

Yeah this.

I do two days in the office at the moment (recently upped from one) and I think it's the perfect balance.

Doing the grim motorway journey every single day used to batter my MH, and as I spend most of my day looking at and writing code I need peace and quiet as much as possible which wfh provides (have my own office space upstairs).

I dont mind being in the office itself (once the shit journey is done with) and it's nice to chat with colleagues, but 2 days is more than enough for me and long may it continue.

Yeah this basically. It's the breaking up of the week that helps me.

Opening my eyes on a Monday morning and knowing I won't get any time to myself until Saturday is soul destroying. Just having 2 days a week where I can work from home completely removes that

[Vive_La_Villa]

Six hour round trip twice a week to do in the office what I can do at home. I know I should just stay the night and it’s my own choice to do it but after 11 months of it I think it’s time for a change. 

[jim]

On 11/10/2023 at 19:28, Demitri_C said:

 

For me it has to make sense to go back in full-time as in a logical reason not just taht they want us to go back in

I think it depends. I might sound like a boomer now but if you are someone that took a job pre covid that was office based and the time has come that your employers want you back in the office. Tough shit you had a good run, you can go back to the office or find something else. 

I completely agree that wfh is great having more time with family, less commute etc.. Heck, I worked remotely from France for years so I get the benefits and if that is important to you and employers want you back in the office then you need to find a role that allows wfh.

My wife won't even look at another job that isn't 80% wfh. I'm not so fussed now, I negotiated one day a week from home and the rest office based. I'm not disciplined enough to do it fully time and wfh in the gaming industry during Covid was hell on earth. My employer at the time actually took the piss as I dealt with in America and Japan he was like you wfh you can talk to those goes out of hours as you are always at home. I didn't like it so I left. 

[Clarry]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

There are pros to working from home - and flexibility with kids is great - but it has absolutely sucked the life out of offices and the high street footfall, which is dying.

I'm amazed that the majority of people want to be soulless little robots at home.

You sound extremely bitter. To me, the office is soulless, full of presenteeism types. Granted, some people need workmates for friendship, especially in places like London.

As far as high streets go...why should I go to my office and support their high street, and not my local high street?

[Rugeley Villa]

3 hours ago, Seat68 said:

I think the thing I have gathered from Villatalk is that roofers spend the majority of their time in pubs.

Not me, I’ve never touched a drop in my life 

[Stevo985]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

I'm amazed that the majority of people want to be soulless little robots at home.

What is it about working from home that makes people soulless?

[Davkaus]

Give me an extra 2 hours a day with my family instead of in the car any day. My coworkers are alright, but I don't need 8 his a day listening to their chat.

Half the time we end up wearing headphones so we can focus in the office anyway.

[markavfc40]

7 hours ago, jim said:

I think it depends. I might sound like a boomer now but if you are someone that took a job pre covid that was office based and the time has come that your employers want you back in the office. Tough shit you had a good run, you can go back to the office or find something else. 

I am not so sure about having a good run. Those who could work from home were told to due to covid and any conscientious person would have worked just as hard from home if not harder. There were millions of people who through no fault of their own couldn't work from home but were furloughed on 80% pay. It could be argued they had the good run as they were being paid to do f all. 

Just from my own personal experience I work harder from home that I can in the office. At home I don't lose x amount of time chatting about last nights footie or struggling with my train of thought as Jane, Janice and Bob are spending half hour chatting about last nights Emmerdale. I also don't get people walking over to my desk disturbing me with either work or non related work issues. 

For a time I had the opposite of what a lot of people think will happen when working from home and I had great difficulty switching off and separating my home life from my work life and creating a balance as I went way too far onto the work side and found myself working at all hours. I definitely won't be alone in having found that.

I am not sure I'd want to be 100% home based though. My job is around 50% desk based 50% site (I am a highway engineer) and I do need that time away from the house. In terms of going into the office though I maybe go in for 2 or 3 hours a month for the odd meeting and sometimes I'll go 5 or 6 weeks without going in at all. I could though go in everyday if I wanted to but why would I when I am more productive from home. 

Bottom line is if your conscientious you're going to work as hard, if not harder from home. If you're someone who is in a job where you spend some of your day looking busy then by working from home you've just been saved the effort of having to convince others you're being productive. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by markavfc40

[Rds1983]

I currently do 2 days in the office and 3 from home.

However, this might chance. 

Because if the  prat sat next to me who is listening to music on his headphones, doesn't stop constantly tapping his feet on the floor, mumbling the words, dancing in his chair and throwing his hands around then I'm going to be escorted out the building for throwing my phone at his head.

[bobzy]

14 minutes ago, Clarry said:

You sound extremely bitter. To me, the office is soulless, full of presenteeism types. Granted, some people need workmates for friendship, especially in places like London.

As far as high streets go...why should I go to my office and support their high street, and not my local high street?

 

11 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

What is it about working from home that makes people soulless?

No, not bitter (that’s a weird take but OK) - just aware of the impact on colleagues/new starters etc.

It’s soulless because instead of being in a “place of work” interacting with other people, you’re sat alone at home. We’re already becoming worse at human interaction and more interested in scrolling through TikTok in our spare time, we’re now taking away entire blocks of interaction. For… efficiency?

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

It’s soulless because instead of being in a “place of work” interacting with other people, you’re sat alone at home. We’re already becoming worse at human interaction and more interested in scrolling through TikTok in our spare time, we’re now taking away entire blocks of interaction. For… efficiency?

But you still interact with people when you work from home. Maybe not face to face, but I speak to almost as many people when I wfh as I do when I'm in the office.

The interaction isn't being removed at all.

 

Plus I get to spend more time with my son. I get to drop him at nursery and interact with people there. I get to pop to the shop at lunch or the gym and interact with people there.

And I don't waste 2 hours of my day stuck in my car where I really am on my own and not interacting with anyone.

 

That's before you even get on to the mental health benefits of working from home which make me a far more soulful person than I was before

[bobzy]

8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

But you still interact with people when you work from home. Maybe not face to face, but I speak to almost as many people when I wfh as I do when I'm in the office.

The interaction isn't being removed at all.

 

Plus I get to spend more time with my son. I get to drop him at nursery and interact with people there. I get to pop to the shop at lunch or the gym and interact with people there.

And I don't waste 2 hours of my day stuck in my car where I really am on my own and not interacting with anyone.

 

That's before you even get on to the mental health benefits of working from home which make me a far more soulful person than I was before

I just don't believe people speak to others at work, from home, as much as they do in the office (certainly my experience).  You'd have to be incredibly social/wanting to go out of your way to make contact with a lot of people - especially with those chance meetings you have when getting, say, a coffee.  I'm sure people are in contact with actual friends, but the interaction will be reduced largely.  I also don't believe that you go to the shop or gym and make small talk - but maybe you do.  The majority of people in that situation are just doing their own thing; and it's one of the advantages with working from home.

Anecdotally, I think the reality is that working from home makes people less efficiently productive but that they work more overall.  Maybe you'd disagree, but my day at home ends around 5:45 typically (kids pick up run) rather than 5 (well, likely 5:15 or something) when leaving an office environment... to do the kids pick up.  Part of this is because I can go for a run at lunch or shove some washing on or whatever the pros of having "flexible time" would be, rather than being at a desk.

The mental side is quite interesting.  Covid absolutely killed me.  Being that isolated was horrible, had a huge impact on my health and getting back into an office/having separation from work life and home life was incredibly beneficial.  Essentially being home all the time was absolutely horrific.  That's a personal opinion, although it definitely bears some fruit in how I view the workplace... and that's before you get on to the actual social side of work (maybe others don't/didn't have it?) where you'd have lunch with people you worked with or went for a couple of pints on a Friday et al.

I'm aware that not everyone would share the same opinion as me (obviously), but I'm surprised at how many people want to be working in that isolated environment rather than in a workplace.  I always thought it might be a 60/40 split office/home or even 50/50 but it doesn't appear to be anywhere near that.

[Davkaus]

4 minutes ago, bobzy said:

 

The mental side is quite interesting.  Covid absolutely killed me.  Being that isolated was horrible, had a huge impact on my health and getting back into an office/having separation from work life and home life was incredibly beneficial. 

I agree with this 100%. I was single and living alone, wfh, and I was going absolutely mental, it was an incredibly dark year or so, really tough to get through it.

But it's not like that anymore, because we're not trapped in the house after work or at lunch. During work hours, I get my head down, get stuff done (and check VT while waiting for code to build ), and then I socialise with friends and family much more during evenings and weekends now that I'm not absolutely shagged by the commute.

Covid lockdown WFH was absolutely grim, but my work life balance and social life is much much better than it was in the before times, although I agree I don't chat with work people quite as much.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

I just don't believe people speak to others at work, from home, as much as they do in the office (certainly my experience).  You'd have to be incredibly social/wanting to go out of your way to make contact with a lot of people - especially with those chance meetings you have when getting, say, a coffee.  I'm sure people are in contact with actual friends, but the interaction will be reduced largely.  I also don't believe that you go to the shop or gym and make small talk - but maybe you do.  The majority of people in that situation are just doing their own thing; and it's one of the advantages with working from home.

 

No you're right. But it's a huge leap to go from "making less small talk" to "taking away entire blocks of interactivity". They're not the same thing. You're talking like working from home means you don't speak to anybody. I still talk to my work colleagues when I wfh. Not as much, but to be honest I don't really want to spend 8 hours a day speaking to them.
I don't small talk at the shop. Sometimes I do at the gym. But interacting isn't just small talk. Seeing people is interacting. Buying something from a cashier is interaction. 

Is a day spent wfh, going to the shop, seeing my son's nursery teachers, popping to the gym etc less interactive than sitting in an office speaking to the same 5 people for 9 hours? I don't think it is

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

Anecdotally, I think the reality is that working from home makes people less efficiently productive but that they work more overall.  Maybe you'd disagree, but my day at home ends around 5:45 typically (kids pick up run) rather than 5 (well, likely 5:15 or something) when leaving an office environment... to do the kids pick up.  Part of this is because I can go for a run at lunch or shove some washing on or whatever the pros of having "flexible time" would be, rather than being at a desk.

I think it totally depends. If I have a lot of work to do on my own and I need to be as efficient as possible then I would 100% choose to work from home. Less distractions, no forced interaction, no being called into an office because you can be seen. I am far more efficient working from home.

Obviously there are some things where you need other people and working in the office will be more efficient. People should have the choice.

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

The mental side is quite interesting.  Covid absolutely killed me.  Being that isolated was horrible, had a huge impact on my health and getting back into an office/having separation from work life and home life was incredibly beneficial.  Essentially being home all the time was absolutely horrific.  That's a personal opinion, although it definitely bears some fruit in how I view the workplace... and that's before you get on to the actual social side of work (maybe others don't/didn't have it?) where you'd have lunch with people you worked with or went for a couple of pints on a Friday et al.

But this isn't isolation. It's wfh. It's not covid where you're forced to stay home. You're choosing to stay home when you don't need to be in the office for no reason. You can still see your family and friends, you can go out at lunchtime. You can go into the office on days you need it and stay home when you don't need it.

If the choice was work in the office every day or go back into lockdown, then I'd choose the former. But you're equating working from home with total isolation. It's not like that at all.

 

I just think it's a really weird leap to suggest that people who work from home are soulless robots.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Stevo985

[turvontour]

I worked in an office for 8 years, then have done 5 years at home. I get more done at home, by a mile. I sometimes feel guilty at home, when I take a ten min break or sort some clothes or something.

But I always then refer back to a time I went into one of our offices a few years ago for a day, and a woman I kind of knew and work with came to the desk I was working at, and spent the best part of 45 minutes talking through her uncles recent death and prep for the funeral. Given the nature of what she was talking about, I couldn't interrupt, abd wouldn't want to but, but she absolutely spoke 95% of the words across those 45mins. 

It made me think who else is she telling this to in such depth in the office. And so ye, since that day I never felt guilty around taking 10 to 15 mins at home to do some chores or take a break.