Working from home - can it work?

[bobzy]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

No you're right. But it's a huge leap to go from "making less small talk" to "taking away entire blocks of interactivity". They're not the same thing. You're talking like working from home means you don't speak to anybody. I still talk to my work colleagues when I wfh. Not as much, but to be honest I don't really want to spend 8 hours a day speaking to them.
I don't small talk at the shop. Sometimes I do at the gym. But interacting isn't just small talk.

I think it totally depends. If I have a lot of work to do on my own and I need to be as efficient as possible then I would 100% choose to work from home. Less distractions, no forced interaction, no being called into an office because you can be seen. I am far more efficient working from home.

Obviously there are some things where you need other people and working in the office will be more efficient. People should have the choice.

But this isn't isolation. It's wfh. It's not covid where you're forced to stay home. You're choosing to stay home when you don't need to be in the office for no reason. You can still see your family and friends, you can go out at lunchtime. You can go into the office on days you need it and stay home when you don't need it.

If the choice was work in the office every day or go back into lockdown, then I'd choose the former. But you're equating working from home with total isolation. It's not like that at all.

 

I just think it's a really weird leap to suggest that people who work from home are soulless robots.

Bit in bold is partly it.  I've also said those who want to work at home - you're seemingly talking about a mix of being in the office and also at home.  That isn't working from home; that's a mix of the two.  The majority of people that I've spoken to about this would be at home, 100% of the time.  The only reason they're in the office at all is because they "have to" do 2 days.  That's it.  Otherwise, they'd be at home.  It doesn't sound like you're in the same boat.

The middle bit r.e: seeing friends/family, going out at lunchtime - I'm not saying it's isolation, just that was my take from Covid.  Do you actually have lunch with other people when wfh or have you just said "you can"?  For me, I never do.  Whilst in the office full time, I'd have probably done that twice a month and walked to shops with people to get lunch like 80% of the time.  Neither happens now.  In fact, I'm less likely to even go out; I'll just grab something that's already at home rather than making a trip to a shop.  Might not be the same for you, possibly never did lunch with others or you really make an effort now and continue it - it's a personal thing.  Maybe no impact at all here.

And yeah, the socialising in work was brilliant - it was amazing how much it helped actually knowing someone when it came to needing a response or getting something done, and that often came from impromptu pub trips or organising daft sports tournaments.  All of that is gone now.  Some organised things happen, but even then it's just nowhere near the same.  Our last event had 50% participation compared to "acceptance" via e-mail largely because people accepted as an in case and were then just at home that day.

For me (again, different for everyone), people is what makes a workplace.  A job is a job and, unless you're lucky enough to love what you do, is simply a means to get money.  Any enjoyment aspect otherwise comes from seeing and speaking to people and working from home in various guises is killing that.  From a financial perspective, I reckon there'll be a lot of companies looking at their building leases and wondering if it's worth downsizing/even having an office anymore.

[Stevo985]

53 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Bit in bold is partly it.  I've also said those who want to work at home - you're seemingly talking about a mix of being in the office and also at home.  That isn't working from home; that's a mix of the two.  The majority of people that I've spoken to about this would be at home, 100% of the time.  The only reason they're in the office at all is because they "have to" do 2 days.  That's it.  Otherwise, they'd be at home.  It doesn't sound like you're in the same boat.

The middle bit r.e: seeing friends/family, going out at lunchtime - I'm not saying it's isolation, just that was my take from Covid.  Do you actually have lunch with other people when wfh or have you just said "you can"?  For me, I never do.  Whilst in the office full time, I'd have probably done that twice a month and walked to shops with people to get lunch like 80% of the time.  Neither happens now.  In fact, I'm less likely to even go out; I'll just grab something that's already at home rather than making a trip to a shop.  Might not be the same for you, possibly never did lunch with others or you really make an effort now and continue it - it's a personal thing.  Maybe no impact at all here.

And yeah, the socialising in work was brilliant - it was amazing how much it helped actually knowing someone when it came to needing a response or getting something done, and that often came from impromptu pub trips or organising daft sports tournaments.  All of that is gone now.  Some organised things happen, but even then it's just nowhere near the same.  Our last event had 50% participation compared to "acceptance" via e-mail largely because people accepted as an in case and were then just at home that day.

For me (again, different for everyone), people is what makes a workplace.  A job is a job and, unless you're lucky enough to love what you do, is simply a means to get money.  Any enjoyment aspect otherwise comes from seeing and speaking to people and working from home in various guises is killing that.  From a financial perspective, I reckon there'll be a lot of companies looking at their building leases and wondering if it's worth downsizing/even having an office anymore.

There's obviously loads of benefits to either approach. That wasn't really the point I was making.

It's completely dependant on the job, the colleagues, the office etc as to what suits who.

 

My issue was calling people that work from home soulless robots. It's odd, that's all. Mainly because it's not remotely true

[Milfner]

I've just come into my base site for the first time in a month (I work regionally, and usually do two on a site and two days from home). I have done absolutely **** all today apart from catch up with people I've not seen for a month or so. Kinda nice as I get on with a lot of them, but a total waste of my time in terms of getting work done. 

[bobzy]

27 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

There's obviously loads of benefits to either approach. That wasn't really the point I was making.

It's completely dependant on the job, the colleagues, the office etc as to what suits who.

 

My issue was calling people that work from home soulless robots. It's odd, that's all. Mainly because it's not remotely true

It's more "people who don't want to interact but just want to get their heads down to do work for the company they work for", but I found it a bit wordy.

 

Edit:  In any case, yeah, working from home has hit team camaraderie and the ability to integrate new starters pretty badly - despite benefits that it gives the individual.

Edited October 17, 2023 by bobzy

[tomav84]

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

I just don't believe people speak to others at work, from home, as much as they do in the office (certainly my experience).  You'd have to be incredibly social/wanting to go out of your way to make contact with a lot of people - especially with those chance meetings you have when getting, say, a coffee.  I'm sure people are in contact with actual friends, but the interaction will be reduced largely.  I also don't believe that you go to the shop or gym and make small talk - but maybe you do.  The majority of people in that situation are just doing their own thing; and it's one of the advantages with working from home.

Anecdotally, I think the reality is that working from home makes people less efficiently productive but that they work more overall.  Maybe you'd disagree, but my day at home ends around 5:45 typically (kids pick up run) rather than 5 (well, likely 5:15 or something) when leaving an office environment... to do the kids pick up.  Part of this is because I can go for a run at lunch or shove some washing on or whatever the pros of having "flexible time" would be, rather than being at a desk.

The mental side is quite interesting.  Covid absolutely killed me.  Being that isolated was horrible, had a huge impact on my health and getting back into an office/having separation from work life and home life was incredibly beneficial.  Essentially being home all the time was absolutely horrific.  That's a personal opinion, although it definitely bears some fruit in how I view the workplace... and that's before you get on to the actual social side of work (maybe others don't/didn't have it?) where you'd have lunch with people you worked with or went for a couple of pints on a Friday et al.

I'm aware that not everyone would share the same opinion as me (obviously), but I'm surprised at how many people want to be working in that isolated environment rather than in a workplace.  I always thought it might be a 60/40 split office/home or even 50/50 but it doesn't appear to be anywhere near that.

yeah i'm pretty much the same. when i worked from home during covid i realised i went days without speaking to anyone from my team...i actually ended up scheduling a 15 min catch up just to chat...weather, football, anything.

now when my team are in the office we talk a LOT more. share funny football stuff from twitter, moan about VAR etc. it's so much more interactive and productive at work to the point that i find myself saying to a colleague "we'll go through this properly tomorrow when you're in the office"

[jimmygreaves]

4 hours ago, Milfner said:

I've just come into my base site for the first time in a month (I work regionally, and usually do two on a site and two days from home). I have done absolutely **** all today apart from catch up with people I've not seen for a month or so. Kinda nice as I get on with a lot of them, but a total waste of my time in terms of getting work done. 

See, I wouldn't describe that as a waste of time at all.

[Rds1983]

I don't really agree with the argument that new starters are easier to train in person than remotely either.

It comes down to how approachable, caring and good at training the mentor is, not whether they are face to face.

I've trained loads of people remotely and they've all become competent. 

I also started a new role 3 weeks ago. There's a colleague who sits next to me in the office 2 days a week and another who works 100 miles away. Whilst the local colleague has helped, the remote one has helped 10 times more.

[Demitri_C]

19 hours ago, jim said:

I think it depends. I might sound like a boomer now but if you are someone that took a job pre covid that was office based and the time has come that your employers want you back in the office. Tough shit you had a good run, you can go back to the office or find something else. 

I completely agree that wfh is great having more time with family, less commute etc.. Heck, I worked remotely from France for years so I get the benefits and if that is important to you and employers want you back in the office then you need to find a role that allows wfh.

My wife won't even look at another job that isn't 80% wfh. I'm not so fussed now, I negotiated one day a week from home and the rest office based. I'm not disciplined enough to do it fully time and wfh in the gaming industry during Covid was hell on earth. My employer at the time actually took the piss as I dealt with in America and Japan he was like you wfh you can talk to those goes out of hours as you are always at home. I didn't like it so I left. 

Yeah i know what you are saying Jim. But when it says it has to make logical sense why take 3 and half years to make this decision? Covid and normality has been here for a while so why not have made plans?

In our instance they gave our desks to other teams and we only have 4 desks for a team of 20. (They got rid of 100 desks over 2 floors for social distancing)  one guy from my team sold his house and moved to Peterborough. God knows how that works for him if we have to go full time ( poor decision from him in my opinion as there was always that possibility)

My argument with management is they have never alluded to us going back full time they have used words like "its not going to happen" 

Just crazy as stevo said earlier, how they have done a complete u turn on WFH.

[Demitri_C]

So we go in once a month at the moment  (last Wednesday of month) and this month falls on half term so our management have just now cancelled it. My manager is on a term time contract (he is a lazy **** as he does virtually nothing and gets off all the school time holidays so the training day in office falls conveniently on his term time period off)

So his manager who is clearly annoyed at having to do the training days has cancelled it just because she is frustrated at him not being at any of the last 3 (last one sick other two fell in his term time contract)

This ladies and gents is what i have to deal with in my team in the NHS. I wish i could say it was just my team but its all over my trust issues with teams. Only in NHS do management get away with this absolute  shit show. You just gotta laugh

Edited October 19, 2023 by Demitri_C

[Wainy316]

We don't even have a road or public transport system capable of supporting everybody commuting.

[Demitri_C]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cydx1zjLcNM/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

Aint this the truth

[Xela]

4 days in the office this week. 

I'll sleep well this weekend 

[mottaloo]

17 minutes ago, Xela said:

4 days in the office this week. 

I'll sleep well this weekend 

No team desi grill afterwards to round off a long week ? 

Edited October 20, 2023 by mottaloo

[Xela]

1 minute ago, mottaloo said:

No team desi grill afterwards to round off a long week ? 

You know what mate... i'm just back from one! Keg and Grill (new premises in Brum). 

1x large grill, 1 boneless grill, 3x curries, 5x nan, 1x masala chips and 1x chilli chips. Between the 5 of us 

Few pints to wash it down with. Boom!

[mottaloo]

46 minutes ago, Xela said:

You know what mate... i'm just back from one! Keg and Grill (new premises in Brum). 

1x large grill, 1 boneless grill, 3x curries, 5x nan, 1x masala chips and 1x chilli chips. Between the 5 of us 

Few pints to wash it down with. Boom!

Nice !! Ain't had a mixy in ages, probably not one this year....last one actually was my brother's birthday last Dec.

[Xela]

Back in the swing of it now. 6 out of the last 7 working days in the office. There are good points to it, but also a lot of negatives as well... time and cost of commuting being the main one. 

It is tiring though! 

[mjmooney]

Most extramarital affairs are with work colleagues. 

Just saying. 

[Rugeley Villa]

2 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Most extramarital affairs are with work colleagues. 

Just saying. 

Can honestly say I don’t worry about anything like that happening. Not because I couldn’t happen, because it could , but it’s not even 1% concern for me . If it happens it happens more fool her.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I just want to do my job and can do it much better from home. The two days in the office are just a waste of time, energy and money.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Vive_La_Villa

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I just want to do my job and can do it much better from home. The two days in the office are just a waste of time, energy and money.

The money definitely and you definitely do less work in office if you have a engaging team that likes to chat