Ratings & Reactions: Liverpool v Villa

[tinker]

The highline failed once and cost us one goal. Posters judging us on two away games, Newcastle and Liverpool, are either stupid or after a reaction/on the wind up. The hysteria from some posters is hilarious, brings a chuckle to me anyway, this time last year......jokers  

[Tomaszk]

1 hour ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

I'm sorry to say that @TRO was right in being worried for our defence in this game. The amount of times they caught us with balls behind our defence was not nice to see. I mostly thank Konsa it stayed 3-0.

Yeah but he says that nonsense constantly.

He'll turn on Douglas Luiz and Torres and Zaniolo if we don't beat Palace. "Soft"

[Mantis]

Although we clearly deserved to lose both the Newcastle and Liverpool games and were second best, I do think we had a lot of bad luck in both games, both in terms of goals conceded and chances not taken. It's no excuse but I don't think the 8 goals shipped in those games is an accurate reflection of where we are against the better teams.

[maqroll]

1 hour ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Poor or set up to sit deep, allow Liverpool time on the ball with superior players and just out played. Hard work starts from pressing higher up the pitch which we seem reluctant to do, and any quality teams going to benefit playing against it. 

Yep, we put down a welcome mat for them. I guess the idea was to hit them on the counter, but we kept sitting back after each goal. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

34 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

The high line and the defence in general are two huge issues for him. Mings was awesome at it and could recover with his pace and strength even when it failed. Torres doesn’t have that pace and a few fancy passes aside, I’m not quite sure what his defensive attributes are. He’s slow, weak and apparently not great in the air either. They are the three things I’d look for in a centre half before even considering how good they are on the ball.

Maybe I’m a dinosaur and just don’t ‘get it’ but a high line with Torres and Carlos is going to cost us big this season unless we change. 

I’m all for controlling games and building from the back but mistakes at the back are being exposed and we’ve conceded a lot of goals in the first 4 matches. 

I have full faith in Emery to fix it, as long as he isn’t stubborn. He’s been dealt a cruel hand with early injuries to Mings, Moreno and Ramsey and we’re feeling that. Torres at £36m should be able to deputise for Mings but right now, he’s miles off it. 

We just feel unbalanced at the moment. McGinn is far better on the right of midfield and it just seems to throw the team off having to play Bailey on the right or playing this 3-5-2. Again, all for a 3-5-2 formation but it feels cobbled together to mask the deficiencies we have in the back line. We’ll still be able to beat half the teams in the league regardless of system - given the quality we have - but it’s tough being battered by teams we should be more competitive against in Liverpool and Newcastle.

I’m rambling. 

I'm guessing Carlos is meant to be the " Ming's " to offer that protection and reprieve, and him going off massively affected that.

But yeah, needs to be rectified somehow, not sure how much of a " bedding in " period we can afford Pau if it costs us valuable points.

[thunderball]

Truthfully and objectively, we are likely no worse off in points that we might have expected.

Work in progress. We won’t play much worse this season, and losing Carlos didn’t help. Torres and Digne poor; midfield out of sorts, struggled in possession - too many off their game but have to give credit to Liverpool’s press, they had their tails up at home. Some bad luck in there aswell, we created enough that if finished, changes this game.

Lots of new moving parts but I would put money on more points (at least 10) this season than last and that’s positive progress at least. We need to work on how we get the best out of our forwards and how we can exploit Zaniolo. Lots to do but it’s bread and butter for Unai, it’s what he does.

[Marka Ragnos]

1 hour ago, Leeroy said:

Absolute shite to be honest. For all the good Unai has done for us, playing that high line against top teams with runners in behind, away from home, is stupid. He must see this surely.

 

Yes, we can't sit back for the whole game against a side like Liverpool and hope to nick a 0-0, but there has to be a balance. The fact he doesn't alter it during games is also a huge concern. At minute 70 or so, another ball over the top put Salah clean through. He seems to be ultra stubborn in his approach with this.

  We just look like flat track bullies this season. Batter the teams we are expected to beat, but get battered by the teams we are not expected to beat. Hence our goal difference of -1 right now. If we lost to Newcastle and Liverpool, but kept it tight and were hard to beat, I'd be ok with that. It was just far too easy for both teams.

 

Our games do get easier and we have had a relatively tough start with three away games out for four, so perspective is needed, but I have not liked what I have seen in the Newcastle and Liverpool games. Unai must adapt for these types of games or he will eventually come in for criticism. 

Couldn't have said it better, I think. In a way, you're stating the obvious, but it's a welcome acknowledgement of reality and a savvy identification of a fundamental problem. I do think Unai will adapt but it won't be a simple either/or adaptation. He doesn't strike me as stubborn, and he's certainly not stupid, but plan was a bit high-risk in this match, as it turned out. Once again, it just has to be said that in both the matches you mention, we once again lost our defensive core player. This is really so **** up. It's so unlucky!!!!!!!!!! The injuries do change the dynamic. I mean, when they're training, they're not like, "OK, use this system and if we lose a key player, please adapt quickly."

Unai will get his shit sorted.

The conventional wisdom is that Villa were punished for being way too open at the back by an experienced, skilled squad. The match tells a more complicated story. I don't think Unai will simply have a low-block "optional set-up" to apply against certain teams. I think he will remain committed to an overlay of a high line, but the challenge will be to get the line-up practised in it and trained and healthy because a structured process of playing out of the back REQUIRES not simply skill, but rock-solid, step-by-step build-up totally based on the plan.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[thunderball]

2 hours ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Emerys responsible for the majority of that performance, didn’t learn from Newcastle. Hopefully that’s the last time 

Just not true

[onmeedson]

We got beat by kick and rush, same at Newcastle and will be the same against the better teams with pace. The highline is gifting games to sides with real pace and the midfield was over run by a team with legs which cried out for more support and we bring on bailey,  merry christmas scousers we came belly up.

[VillaParkAvenue]

Just read some Liverpool rocket polisher praise Sxoboszlai’s ball stroking and how he glides into tight spaces with his tools. Christ

[IrishVilla10]

17 minutes ago, thunderball said:

Just not true

How so? What was the difference between this set up and the newcastle set up?

[Keener window-cleaner]

48 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Yeah but he says that nonsense constantly.

He'll turn on Douglas Luiz and Torres and Zaniolo if we don't beat Palace. "Soft"

With all due respect a bit of unnecessary tone in that imo, I try to focus on the posts and also not so much what might have been said earlier, and it was spot on today.

[DJBOB]

41 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Although we clearly deserved to lose both the Newcastle and Liverpool games and were second best, I do think we had a lot of bad luck in both games, both in terms of goals conceded and chances not taken. It's no excuse but I don't think the 8 goals shipped in those games is an accurate reflection of where we are against the better teams.

As a whole, I agree. Though we were way off Liverpool compared to Newcastle. 
 
If McGinn gets it on target or Bailey/Watkins tumbles it in or Cash scores his header, a much different game. 
 
I think our main problems both on and off the ball are applying pressure and dealing with pressure. The injuries haven’t helped us and the break comes at a good time to re-examine our first XI. 

As for the game, the first goal exemplifies that we can’t really exert our will when we’re behind. Much of Unai’s system is about control and it’s hard to control it if we’re on the back foot from minute 2. 

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Poor or set up to sit deep, allow Liverpool time on the ball with superior players and just out played. Hard work starts from pressing higher up the pitch which we seem reluctant to do, and any quality teams going to benefit playing against it. 

I agree. The press was non existent not sure why we gave them so much space and time. Thats a no no at anfield

[Keener window-cleaner]

There were some mitigating circumstances today, conceding early away to a top team always makes it difficult, losing a CB early and needing to reshape not ideal either. But still it was a bit of a reality check, I was too optimistic before the game, they are on another level and we are still some years away from being able to fully compete. Martinez, Konsa, Luiz, Kamara, Diaby and Zaniolo at least showed they can compete with the best, the rest to a lesser extent. 

[IrishVilla10]

8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I agree. The press was non existent not sure why we gave them so much space and time. Thats a no no at anfield

This is an ongoing issue and has been for a while, I’ve seen countless Twitter analytics pointing it out and I’ve posted plenty of it, it’s not an effort issue or a bad day at the office issue it’s a tactics issue. 

[Marka Ragnos]

58 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Although we clearly deserved to lose both the Newcastle and Liverpool games and were second best, I do think we had a lot of bad luck in both games, both in terms of goals conceded and chances not taken. It's no excuse but I don't think the 8 goals shipped in those games is an accurate reflection of where we are against the better teams.

Absolutely. And I find myself brushing off some of the player side shows as the sting of a bad loss recedes a bit. I keep looking -- maybe too much? -- at Emery's high-line, aggressively winged Yellow Submarine peak era at Villarreal, and it's patently obvious that it worked really really really well most of the time BUT not without healthy, fit defenders. I mean, does it even need to be said?

And Liverpool know exactly how to beat that approach, but that doesn't mean every other team can or will replicate Liverpool. Again, injuries change everything. They just do.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[andym]

2 hours ago, striker said:

What is it about Luiz that makes most on here blind to the fact that whenever he plays against decent midfielders he almost always is second best! A vastly overrated player alongside the rest of Villa’s starting midfield!

Anyway, back to the game.

High line against Liverpool is absolute suicide as it was against Newcastle. The thing is I don’t feel Emery will change it. He was hated at Arsenal for it yet kept playing it with better players than Villa have.

You simply cannot play such a high line against the top six. All have players that can play defence splitting passes to players with pace to burn. Couple that with playing a defender who has no pace and the turning speed of a tanker then you are setting up to be on the end of a hiding. Torres needs to play in a deep lying back four to get the best out of him.

I watched Villa in pre-season. Philogene stood out an absolute mile for me. Quick, direct, hungry and aware of his defensive duties. Looked a real player.

Rather than play him in the first game Villa ended up selling him. Why the Jesus give him plenty of playing time in pre-season where he excelled then drop him? No wonder he wanted away! Would have exposed that poor Liverpool back four today.

A reality check then for those mentioning possible Champions League qualification and questioning why one or two of the Villa players  were passed over for international selection.

I also had a quiet chuckle to myself when I read on here posters congratulating the club on keeping Villa’s best players.

Could it be that there was no interest in the likes of the much lauded Luiz, McGinn, Kamara and Watkins for a reason?

So no interest in Luiz etc shows they are rubbish, but you are saying Philogene is quality, the same Philogene who went to.... Hull for £5 mil.

One of the worst takes i've read on here, and i remember villalad21 

[Leeroy]

1 hour ago, tinker said:

The highline failed once and cost us one goal. Posters judging us on two away games, Newcastle and Liverpool, are either stupid or after a reaction/on the wind up. The hysteria from some posters is hilarious, brings a chuckle to me anyway, this time last year......jokers  

Wrong. 

 

And to call posters stupid for critiquing two performances where we have lost both and have a goal difference of -7 is actually quite stupid on your part. What you're essentially saying is, there is no point in having a forum, unless you only want to say nice things.

 

No one is saying they want to go back to how things were a year ago, but there are quite clearly some issues that need ironing out. We were not performing like this against the better sides at the back end of last season and to be honest I never expected this from an Emery team. His teams are usually very solid and defensively sound. 

[Marka Ragnos]

4 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

it’s not an effort issue or a bad day at the office issue it’s a tactics issue. 

Not sure those three things can be simply pulled off the tangled pile and set aside on three neat little dishes. Bad luck and tactics and mental deflation and giving up all feed off each other. But we can't give up. Even neutrals said we capitulated after the Salah goal. That's 90% on the players.