Ratings & Reactions: Liverpool v Villa

[Marka Ragnos]

1 hour ago, GeordieVillan said:

I managed to get a ticket to the game and did the 8 hour round trip to sit in the Liverpool end with a mate. The journey back was honestly brutal and depressing.

I have my concerns about the high line, and as has been discussed to death - sometimes we will get caught out. However, what I don’t understand is how we can play the high line, and not press at the same time. That is suicide. The Liverpool fans around me all commented that they didn’t realise Villa played such a high line, “they play as high as us” etc. But they also very quickly observed the difference was that when we were high in the first half, sometimes as high as the half way line, we weren’t applying any pressure on the ball. We got caught out with a simple ball over the top and quick one-two every time Liverpool went forward.

Let’s be clear, I had high hopes before the game, by no means expecting to win, but I thought we had a chance, and at least was confident that we would put on a show and make a game of it.

McGinn was well off it today, missing simple short passes, back down to earth after I said I wouldn’t trade him for any midfielder in the league other than KDB!

Likewise Watkins, his confidence in the league looks shot to bits already, he desperately needs a league goal. Duran genuinely made a difference when he came on - he’s raw and makes bad choices, but he stretched the game, got involved and posed a small threat, which is more than Watkins did today.

Luiz and Kamara are neat and tidy, but they were bullied at times today. Same as at Newcastle. Likewise Digne was pulling out of tackles from what I could see, maybe he doesn’t want to miss out on a transfer this week. Ramsey and Moreno will be straight back into this team.

Robertson had Bailey on toast, other than one moment of magic. I don’t think Bailey can play in these away games, he’s a passenger, and it might have been better to bring on Chambers for Carlos, and leave Cash on the right wing.

We could have scored 3 or 4 goals with the chances we had, but honestly it felt like Liverpool could have scored 9 or 10. This was a worse performance than Newcastle for me.

A very bad day at the office, and there will be more days like this. No knee-jerk reactions, the players are generally still good enough and the manager is still the man. 
 

One last point, surely Salah was in an offside position and blocking Martinez’s view on the first goal? I havnt seen any of the tv coverage but there has been no discussion on the radio as there was about the Man City goal yesterday?

Thanks for the game report. It's so different to hear from someone on the ground. Relieved somewhat to hear about Duran. May I ask you two questions, since you were there?:

1. Did it seem to you that our team wasn't making a full effort after the Salah goal? 
2. There were quite a few remonstrances by fans towards Duran's behavior, along the lines of "he's bit immature still," etc. Did you see any of that? Can you offer any details? 

Thanks!!!!

[Zhan_Zhuang]

In retrospect the Manager cannot legislate for s*** decisions...

Never noticed at the time but Salah was in an offside position and most definitely interfering with the view of Martinez; if Villa had scored that goal today VAR would have ruled it out. Hence, two minutes in and the game was lost.

What can Emery do in that situation, he's powerless.

[IrishVilla10]

4 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

In retrospect the Manager cannot legislate for s*** decisions...

Never noticed at the time but Salah was in an offside position and most definitely interfering with the view of Martinez; if Villa had scored that goal today VAR would have ruled it out. Hence, two minutes in and the game was lost.

What can Emery do in that situation, he's powerless.

If the games lost at 1-0 down 2 minutes in then the game was never ours to win. Set us up better against teams like these so that we’re not complaining about shit decisions after. Emery made his own shit decision bringing on bailey too

[GeordieVillan]

6 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Thanks for the game report. It's so different to hear from someone on the ground. Relieved somewhat to hear about Duran. May I ask you two questions, since you were there?:

1. Did it seem to you that our team wasn't making a full effort after the Salah goal? 
2. There were quite a few remonstrances by fans towards Duran's behavior, along the lines of "he's bit immature still," etc. Did you see any of that? Can you offer any details? 

Thanks!!!!

There was no noticeable change in effort after the Salah goal - we were off the pace all game! Obviously players heads will go down when you are 3-0 and the game is over, but the game just fizzled out, especially when substitutes came on. Things might change if you can nick a goal, but that didn’t happen.

I actually thought Duran made a positive impact. I’ve heard him described as “agent of chaos” and I think that’s fair. He makes a difference, unsettles defenders and gets in their faces. He’s physically stronger than Ollie. But his decision making is poor and he looks very raw - but those are things that can improve with coaching. I do wonder if we could somehow get Duran on the pitch with Ollie at the same time, maybe it would ease some of the physical burden on Ollie as he looked out of his depth today, but it seems in our system it’s one or other, not both.

[Marka Ragnos]

16 minutes ago, GeordieVillan said:

There was no noticeable change in effort after the Salah goal - we were off the pace all game! Obviously players heads will go down when you are 3-0 and the game is over, but the game just fizzled out, especially when substitutes came on. Things might change if you can nick a goal, but that didn’t happen.

I actually thought Duran made a positive impact. I’ve heard him described as “agent of chaos” and I think that’s fair. He makes a difference, unsettles defenders and gets in their faces. He’s physically stronger than Ollie. But his decision making is poor and he looks very raw - but those are things that can improve with coaching. I do wonder if we could somehow get Duran on the pitch with Ollie at the same time, maybe it would ease some of the physical burden on Ollie as he looked out of his depth today, but it seems in our system it’s one or other, not both.

Great to read this -- I mean, not great in terms of the facts but clear and honest. Really appreciate your perspective. Hot takes based on screens often just seem to get it wrong. To me it seemed like the injury of Carlos really shoot them up again -- echoes of Mings at Newcastle. What shit luck we've had with key players and injuries at exactly the wrong time.

[IrishVilla10]

 Great take, account worth following too. 

[DJBOB]

1 hour ago, IrishVilla10 said:

 Great take, account worth following too. 

I like Alex’s levelheadedness and he’s completely right about raising our floor, and I think Unai will get it right with our ceiling. 
 
It’s not a great excuse but within 3 days (Buendia and Mings injury), Unai’s whole plan for the season was upended. In another crucial game, another CB goes down. 
 
Now that they’re out, you see exactly what they brought to the team. Mings imperial defensive capabilities. Buendia’s high press and connecting the defense to attack. All things we’ve sorely missed in our last two away games. 
 
In many ways, Unai has to start all over again. What is my best XI? How do I deploy them? What are my options?

 
I don’t think Unai really figured that out until Crystal Palace at home last season - almost 13 games into his tenure. I suspect much of the same here. We will pick up most results along the way and once he finds his best XI, I think we can start testing our ceiling. 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, GeordieVillan said:

I managed to get a ticket to the game and did the 8 hour round trip to sit in the Liverpool end with a mate. The journey back was honestly brutal and depressing.

I have my concerns about the high line, and as has been discussed to death - sometimes we will get caught out. However, what I don’t understand is how we can play the high line, and not press at the same time. That is suicide. The Liverpool fans around me all commented that they didn’t realise Villa played such a high line, “they play as high as us” etc. But they also very quickly observed the difference was that when we were high in the first half, sometimes as high as the half way line, we weren’t applying any pressure on the ball. We got caught out with a simple ball over the top and quick one-two every time Liverpool went forward.

Let’s be clear, I had high hopes before the game, by no means expecting to win, but I thought we had a chance, and at least was confident that we would put on a show and make a game of it.

McGinn was well off it today, missing simple short passes, back down to earth after I said I wouldn’t trade him for any midfielder in the league other than KDB!

Likewise Watkins, his confidence in the league looks shot to bits already, he desperately needs a league goal. Duran genuinely made a difference when he came on - he’s raw and makes bad choices, but he stretched the game, got involved and posed a small threat, which is more than Watkins did today.

Luiz and Kamara are neat and tidy, but they were bullied at times today. Same as at Newcastle. Likewise Digne was pulling out of tackles from what I could see, maybe he doesn’t want to miss out on a transfer this week. Ramsey and Moreno will be straight back into this team.

Robertson had Bailey on toast, other than one moment of magic. I don’t think Bailey can play in these away games, he’s a passenger, and it might have been better to bring on Chambers for Carlos, and leave Cash on the right wing.

We could have scored 3 or 4 goals with the chances we had, but honestly it felt like Liverpool could have scored 9 or 10. This was a worse performance than Newcastle for me.

A very bad day at the office, and there will be more days like this. No knee-jerk reactions, the players are generally still good enough and the manager is still the man. 
 

One last point, surely Salah was in an offside position and blocking Martinez’s view on the first goal? I havnt seen any of the tv coverage but there has been no discussion on the radio as there was about the Man City goal yesterday?

The emboldened bit  is spot on.

They went after us, and we didn't go after them....we allowed them to play......it was miles off the performance of last season, with their 2 best defenders out.

We basically surrendered the initiative early on, and good teams make you pay, when you do that.....it was far too easy for them.

I don't expect many other teams, to make it this easy for them...but we'll see.

I have real concerns about the defensive savvy in all area's of the team.

[zab6359]

That was difficult to watch we were second best in every single area.

Pau was toilet, I know the getting up to speed with the PL line will come out but he really does need to improve and quickly.

Poor from the manager today Don Unai is not infallible he certainly made mistakes yesterday, bringing on Bailey was a poor decision.

Anyway time to regroup during the break and move on.

[TRO]

Whether the highline is at fault or not.....no system is designed to ship goals away from home like we have against Newcastle and Liverpool.....crikey last season, we adopted a prudent approach to the game, and they were lucky to get a draw.

Todays offering was naive, and while Liverpool applied Pressure, we in return applied none....you have to compete to win anything, and we just wilted with the press, we was negated from any form of creative play.

They worked like dogs without the ball chasing after us, to smother any threat.....we in contrast, was just waiting for the pass, to start and attack....bullied for the whole game.

I think its concerning.

We only seem to be able to play our silky football, when opponents are lesser, or they stand off, like we did today, and allow us to play......I don't see any doggedness in our play.

They say "you win the right to play football".....its a lesson we need to learn, fast.

 

[TRO]

9 hours ago, striker said:

What is it about Luiz that makes most on here blind to the fact that whenever he plays against decent midfielders he almost always is second best! A vastly overrated player alongside the rest of Villa’s starting midfield!

Anyway, back to the game.

High line against Liverpool is absolute suicide as it was against Newcastle. The thing is I don’t feel Emery will change it. He was hated at Arsenal for it yet kept playing it with better players than Villa have.

You simply cannot play such a high line against the top six. All have players that can play defence splitting passes to players with pace to burn. Couple that with playing a defender who has no pace and the turning speed of a tanker then you are setting up to be on the end of a hiding. Torres needs to play in a deep lying back four to get the best out of him.

I watched Villa in pre-season. Philogene stood out an absolute mile for me. Quick, direct, hungry and aware of his defensive duties. Looked a real player.

Rather than play him in the first game Villa ended up selling him. Why the Jesus give him plenty of playing time in pre-season where he excelled then drop him? No wonder he wanted away! Would have exposed that poor Liverpool back four today.

A reality check then for those mentioning possible Champions League qualification and questioning why one or two of the Villa players  were passed over for international selection.

I also had a quiet chuckle to myself when I read on here posters congratulating the club on keeping Villa’s best players.

Could it be that there was no interest in the likes of the much lauded Luiz, McGinn, Kamara and Watkins for a reason?

You certainly pick a good time to make your point.....However, some of it is food for thought.

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, zab6359 said:

That was difficult to watch we were second best in every single area.

Pau was toilet, I know the getting up to speed with the PL line will come out but he really does need to improve and quickly.

Poor from the manager today Don Unai is not infallible he certainly made mistakes yesterday, bringing on Bailey was a poor decision.

Anyway time to regroup during the break and move on.

er, correct.

[QldVilla]

To me we looked like a team that was playing it’s 5th game in 14 days.

Everything seemed a bit slow and not in sync. Liverpool looked like a team fully rested.

Its fine margins at this level and we need and will become better.

[vazquez]

I think plenty of the blame from yesterday goes to Unai, of course injury to Carlos and the early goal changed the game, but defensively we were just super naive from the start:

* Liverpool is great in counter, and has speed up front through Diaz, Jota, Nunez and Salah

* We play a super high line when defending while we have one of the PL's slowest CBs in Pau Torres

* We are not putting pressure for they players and especially TAA, but let him have 5+ seconds to plan and deliver balls behind our high line

Playing from the back, it was more issue in the execution, but going forward the opponents will target our game with high-press, and we need to be more prepared. The ball needs to move faster and there needs to be more initiative from everyone to want the ball and provide passing opportunities.

Hopefully we learn from Liverpool and Newcastle.

[Pinebro]

8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Im not happy with the results for liverpool and Newcastle. But to question emery is insane. 

Believe in the project

Believe in unai

Tbf

Liverpool look absolute quality this season.

MacAllister look to have rejuvenated their midfield

[villa4europe]

8 hours ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

In retrospect the Manager cannot legislate for s*** decisions...

Never noticed at the time but Salah was in an offside position and most definitely interfering with the view of Martinez; if Villa had scored that goal today VAR would have ruled it out. Hence, two minutes in and the game was lost.

What can Emery do in that situation, he's powerless.

same as our 3rd vs burnley...

i dont agree with it but its the rule they're going with, its consistent with what else we're seeing around the league (man citys goal too)

we didnt lose that game because of a ref decision

[Villa Gaffa]

It's been a pretty frantic start to the season.

Overseas tour, Monchi joining, Injuries (some major), European qualifying and the ins and outs of the Transfer window.

This International break might be just what we need and give a chance for everything to settle.

Also give Unai more time with the squad and our new players without the pressure of a game to play.

[VILLAMARV]

Humbling watching that with a Liverpool fan mate of mine. We can learn a bit from the way they aproached the game. We couldn't find a way to pass the ball around their press. They snuffed us out time and time again. On the occasions we broke out of our own half we'd conspire to lose it. Easy to be down on our lot and we obviously didn't play well to put it mildly but they did and they deserved the points.

[Jas10]

Hmmm…

Suggests Luiz did show up and others didn’t (McGinn):

Konsa battled away and was our MOM imo.

Not one big chance created?

We could easily have levelled it to 2-2 if we had more composure and focus but we were so “off it” that it’s not that surprising we messed those chances up…

We lacked aggression and our lack of pressing was a concern… but we’ll get there…

I just wish we didn’t rely so heavily on McGinn in that aspect…

We shouldn’t be too reactionary… yes the performance was poor and it was an upsetting result but… we were always going to stumble or stall after the setbacks/injuries we have experienced.

Most teams would suffer and be affected by such blows… messed up our plans for the season.

Unai won’t stop working and we will improve (don’t forget last season)… it has just become more of a challenge that it was before the season started… Mings and Buendia were key components. Carlos is now… I hope that injury isn’t anything significant…

From Unai’s interview… he didn’t come across as overly upset or concerned (despite hating losing and performing poorly)… almost  as though he realises we are going to have difficulties and a period of transition or hardship… but we will become more of the finished article in time… but there will be stumbles along the way… he wanted to try things when the game was lost and I think we will see Zaniolo more involved going forwards…

Edited September 4, 2023 by Jas10

[wict01]

I think 6 points from the first 4 league games, along with cruising into the Conference group stage is about what we all expected when the fixtures were announced. I am a bit alarmed however by the nature of the defeats - 8 goals shipped and 1 scored away at sides who, in theory, we want to be competing with or at least in and around is pretty disappointing. We can't be getting slapped every time we go away from home to a decent side.