Ratings & Reactions: Liverpool v Villa

[IrishVilla10]

3 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Not sure those three things can be simply pulled off the tangled pile and set aside on three neat little dishes. Bad luck and tactics and mental deflation and giving up all feed off each other. But we can't give up. Even neutrals said we capitulated after the Salah goal. That's 90% on the players.

Of course it’s more than just that but we’ve got a great example against Newcastle to compare

[John]

Disappointing to put it mildly, but losing games at Newcastle and Liverpool isn't going to cost us a top six place. Getting anything there or at Arsenal or Manchester City, would be a bonus. We need to get something (preferably wins) from the reverse fixtures, but we don't want to get stuffed away like this too often. The early goal and losing Carlos, gave us a mountain to climb and for once, the international break is welcome, as it will give UE time to work with the players, who will remain at BH. As a former manager once (all too often) said:

 Bring on Palace!

[Marka Ragnos]

9 minutes ago, Leeroy said:

His [Emery's] teams are usually very solid and defensively sound. 

But complicated, too. Those defensives are very carefully choreographed, down to the most minute detail. Kneecap the prima ballerina (Carlos, in today's case), and they don't work -- understandably. To mix metaphors, the falcon cannot see the falconeer, the centre cannot hold, and things fall apart.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[RicRic]

2 hours ago, striker said:

What is it about Luiz that makes most on here blind to the fact that whenever he plays against decent midfielders he almost always is second best! A vastly overrated player alongside the rest of Villa’s starting midfield!

Anyway, back to the game.

High line against Liverpool is absolute suicide as it was against Newcastle. The thing is I don’t feel Emery will change it. He was hated at Arsenal for it yet kept playing it with better players than Villa have.

You simply cannot play such a high line against the top six. All have players that can play defence splitting passes to players with pace to burn. Couple that with playing a defender who has no pace and the turning speed of a tanker then you are setting up to be on the end of a hiding. Torres needs to play in a deep lying back four to get the best out of him.

I watched Villa in pre-season. Philogene stood out an absolute mile for me. Quick, direct, hungry and aware of his defensive duties. Looked a real player.

Rather than play him in the first game Villa ended up selling him. Why the Jesus give him plenty of playing time in pre-season where he excelled then drop him? No wonder he wanted away! Would have exposed that poor Liverpool back four today.

A reality check then for those mentioning possible Champions League qualification and questioning why one or two of the Villa players  were passed over for international selection.

I also had a quiet chuckle to myself when I read on here posters congratulating the club on keeping Villa’s best players.

Could it be that there was no interest in the likes of the much lauded Luiz, McGinn, Kamara and Watkins for a reason?

Blind what are you talking about dont jump on here with ridiculous  statements Luiz has come leaps and bounds and can compete with the best midfielders in this league but can have off days but today he wasn’t that bad and deserved a higher rating hence being mentioned and he is NOT overrated by me maybe some of our fans, im not one of them fans praising every player or saying we had the greatest transfer window ever because we DIDNT and we needed better and more its now slammed shut and I’m slightly concerned about it… same way people on here are praising Zaniolo who hasn’t done anything to warrant starting in front of anyone imo but we are too excited because hes a new signing and lauded as being a special player… we should have signed a ferran torres gifted type of player 

Edited September 3, 2023 by RicRic

[RicRic]

2 hours ago, ozvilla28 said:

agree, like they got stage freight.No one grabbed game and lend by example all went in there shell.

So Diaby wasn’t on that pitch today no? we get too carried away as fans and cast away everything 

[tinker]

12 minutes ago, Leeroy said:

Wrong. 

 

And to call posters stupid for critiquing two performances where we have lost both and have a goal difference of -7 is actually quite stupid on your part. What you're essentially saying is, there is no point in having a forum, unless you only want to say nice things.

 

No one is saying they want to go back to how things were a year ago, but there are quite clearly some issues that need ironing out. We were not performing like this against the better sides at the back end of last season and to be honest I never expected this from an Emery team. His teams are usually very solid and defensively sound. 

Your wrong, have you watched the goals? 

[Aston_Villan4]

2 hours ago, briny_ear said:

@jackbauer was trying to persuade me that most posters think he will come good whereas all I could see was scapegoating. I think you forgot to add in the bit about how you are sure he will come good.

Lol well I didn’t think saying he was awful today would be assumed as me scapegoating him. He was terrible today. That’s it. There doesn’t need to be anything added onto that. And if we’re gonna use the term scapegoat we should use it correctly. At least in regards to my posts, I’m not blaming him for our loss. Today was an overall team loss.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Aston_Villan4

[Leeroy]

43 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Couldn't have said it better, I think. In a way, you're stating the obvious, but it's a welcome acknowledgement of reality and a savvy identification of a fundamental problem. I do think Unai will adapt but it won't be a simple either/or adaptation. He doesn't strike me as stubborn, and he's certainly not stupid, but plan was a bit high-risk in this match, as it turned out. Once again, it just has to be said that in both the matches you mention, we once again lost our defensive core player. This is really so **** up. It's so unlucky!!!!!!!!!! The injuries do change the dynamic. I mean, when they're training, they're not like, "OK, use this system and if we lose a key player, please adapt quickly."

Unai will get his shit sorted.

The conventional wisdom is that Villa were punished for being way too open at the back by an experienced, skilled squad. The match tells a more complicated story. I don't think Unai will simply have a low-block "optional set-up" to apply against certain teams. I think he will remain committed to an overlay of a high line, but the challenge will be to get the line-up practised in it and trained and healthy because a structured process of playing out of the back REQUIRES not simply skill, but rock-solid, step-by-step build-up totally based on the plan.

Injuries certainly haven't helped, but Liverpool had their two first choice centre halves out today and played Matip and Gomes who have barely played last 12 months and we barely laid a glove on them. 

 

You say the plan was high risk, but he should have learned from the Newcastle game. This was an even more difficult game to play a high line because of Salah, Nunez and Diaz being quick to run in behind, but he still did. I just think in certain games we cannot play this way, because it clearly isn't working. 

 

As I said though, perspective. We have played Newcastle and Liverpool away in our first four games, probably the toughest places to go other than Man City. 

 

The next few games will tell us a lot. Palace and Brighton at home, and Chelsea away who look no better than last season. We shouldn't be battered in any of them, and I'd be looking for a minimum of 5 points and ideally going unbeaten. Ramsey and Moreno should also be back next game. Last season we took 9 points from those games so don't think it's unrealistic to aim for the same. We certainly need to tighten up defensively because we are conceding more than 2 goals a game currently and that is nowhere near good enough. A few clean sheets in the next few weeks would do us the world of good.

[tinker]

3 minutes ago, Leeroy said:

Injuries certainly haven't helped, but Liverpool had their two first choice centre halves out today and played Matip and Gomes who have barely played last 12 months and we barely laid a glove on them. 

 

You say the plan was high risk, but he should have learned from the Newcastle game. This was an even more difficult game to play a high line because of Salah, Nunez and Diaz being quick to run in behind, but he still did. I just think in certain games we cannot play this way, because it clearly isn't working. 

 

As I said though, perspective. We have played Newcastle and Liverpool away in our first four games, probably the toughest places to go other than Man City. 

 

The next few games will tell us a lot. Palace and Brighton at home, and Chelsea away who look no better than last season. We shouldn't be battered in any of them, and I'd be looking for a minimum of 5 points and ideally going unbeaten. Ramsey and Moreno should also be back next game. Last season we took 9 points from those games so don't think it's unrealistic to aim for the same. We certainly need to tighten up defensively because we are conceding more than 2 goals a game currently and that is nowhere near good enough. A few clean sheets in the next few weeks would do us the world of good.

Where have you been for the last 20 years, can't believe such a demanding villa fan has only been on here 8 months, how we have missed your hysterical ramblings and ridiculous demands. 

[Leeroy]

2 minutes ago, tinker said:

Where have you been for the last 20 years, can't believe such a demanding villa fan has only been on here 8 months, how we have missed your hysterical ramblings and ridiculous demands. 

Oh I didn't realise you could only post on here if you joined 20 years ago, my bad.

 

Plonker.

[Marka Ragnos]

6 minutes ago, tinker said:

Where have you been for the last 20 years, can't believe such a demanding villa fan has only been on here 8 months, how we have missed your hysterical ramblings and ridiculous demands. 

 

2 minutes ago, Leeroy said:

Plonker.

[fruitvilla]

Emi and the team had a difficult day at the office. Generally nothing seemed crisp ... our passes were off, read and intercepted, or to nowhere in particular. The first goal was well taken, but no one was marking the space or the man drifting in. That's a team mistake.

Emi in goal did well considering the score line.

7 Emi ... he did what he could. None of the goals were on him.
6 Cash ... OK but was going to have a hard time.
8 Konsa ... my man of the match, he kept the game vaguely close
6 Carlos ... I hope he is not too damaged
6 Pau ... ok a generous six, but like Cash had a hard time as well.
6 Digne ... not terribly effective today, glad he did not touch that ball when he tried to grab it. He did not have clear targets for his crosses
5 Bailey ... more for his huff at being taken off but like most of the team, not terribly effective, but not all his fault. Stingey five
6 Kamara ... did OK (stingey six)
6 Luiz ... surprised he was subbed
6 Tielemans ... definitely was not better than Luiz
6 McGinn ... his magic was absent today
7 Diaby ... Did alright, but sadly no magic
6 Watkins ... Was effectively snuffed out by Liverpool
7 Zani' ... promising cameo, looks a good addition to the team Look forward to seeing more game time
5 Duran ... probably the most disappointing performance for me, wasteful and greedy. Maybe even a four.

The problem is a large bunch of "six" performances against an on-form Liverpool is not going to cut it.

Referee, not a problem.

Edited September 3, 2023 by fruitvilla

[GeordieVillan]

5 hours ago, villan95 said:

Cash having a laugh with Klopp

Hated seeing that.

[Brumstopdogs]

 

[the_eristic]

Rubbish. Sack everyone! (Haven't seen game btw.)

[Marka Ragnos]

2 hours ago, fruitvilla said:

Emi and the team had a difficult day at the office. Generally nothing seemed crisp ... our passes were off, read and intercepted, or to nowhere in particular. The first goal was well taken, but no one was marking the space or the man drifting in. That's a team mistake.

Emi in goal did well considering the score line.

7 Emi ... he did what he could. None of the goals were on him.
6 Cash ... OK but was going to have a hard time.
8 Konsa ... my man of the match, he kept the game vaguely close
6 Carlos ... I hope he is not too damaged
6 Pau ... ok a generous six, but like Cash had a hard time as well.
6 Digne ... not terribly effective today, glad he did not touch that ball when he tried to grab it. He did not have clear targets for his crosses
5 Bailey ... more for his huff at being taken off but like most of the team, not terribly effective, but not all his fault. Stingey five
6 Kamara ... did OK (stingey six)
6 Luiz ... surprised he was subbed
6 Tielemans ... definitely was not better than Luiz
6 McGinn ... his magic was absent today
7 Diaby ... Did alright, but sadly no magic
6 Watkins ... Was effectively snuffed out by Liverpool
7 Zani' ... promising cameo, looks a good addition to the team Look forward to seeing more game time
5 Duran ... probably the most disappointing performance for me, wasteful and greedy. Maybe even a four.

The problem is a large bunch of "six" performances against an on-form Liverpool is not going to cut it.

Referee, not a problem.

Wow, almost perfect take on things. I would shave off 2 across the board, apart from Martinez. We were woeful. Yeah, maybe Kamara would be 4 with me. Whole team did seem off it somehow, too ... lacking in the liquid movements we've come to expect and relentless energy. Don't know what's going on, but the lack of energy and willingness to let Liverpool coast to victory after Salah's goal is piercingly disappointing. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[GeordieVillan]

I managed to get a ticket to the game and did the 8 hour round trip to sit in the Liverpool end with a mate. The journey back was honestly brutal and depressing.

I have my concerns about the high line, and as has been discussed to death - sometimes we will get caught out. However, what I don’t understand is how we can play the high line, and not press at the same time. That is suicide. The Liverpool fans around me all commented that they didn’t realise Villa played such a high line, “they play as high as us” etc. But they also very quickly observed the difference was that when we were high in the first half, sometimes as high as the half way line, we weren’t applying any pressure on the ball. We got caught out with a simple ball over the top and quick one-two every time Liverpool went forward.

Let’s be clear, I had high hopes before the game, by no means expecting to win, but I thought we had a chance, and at least was confident that we would put on a show and make a game of it.

McGinn was well off it today, missing simple short passes, back down to earth after I said I wouldn’t trade him for any midfielder in the league other than KDB!

Likewise Watkins, his confidence in the league looks shot to bits already, he desperately needs a league goal. Duran genuinely made a difference when he came on - he’s raw and makes bad choices, but he stretched the game, got involved and posed a small threat, which is more than Watkins did today.

Luiz and Kamara are neat and tidy, but they were bullied at times today. Same as at Newcastle. Likewise Digne was pulling out of tackles from what I could see, maybe he doesn’t want to miss out on a transfer this week. Ramsey and Moreno will be straight back into this team.

Robertson had Bailey on toast, other than one moment of magic. I don’t think Bailey can play in these away games, he’s a passenger, and it might have been better to bring on Chambers for Carlos, and leave Cash on the right wing.

We could have scored 3 or 4 goals with the chances we had, but honestly it felt like Liverpool could have scored 9 or 10. This was a worse performance than Newcastle for me.

A very bad day at the office, and there will be more days like this. No knee-jerk reactions, the players are generally still good enough and the manager is still the man. 
 

One last point, surely Salah was in an offside position and blocking Martinez’s view on the first goal? I havnt seen any of the tv coverage but there has been no discussion on the radio as there was about the Man City goal yesterday?

Edited September 3, 2023 by GeordieVillan

[Kiwivillan]

15 minutes ago, GeordieVillan said:

One last point, surely Salah was in an offside position and blocking Martinez’s view on the first goal?

Just watched Schmeichel on Matchday Live saying it should've been offside

[jim]

We are still miles off the top teams. Torres is toilet at defending.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

1 hour ago, GeordieVillan said:

One last point, surely Salah was in an offside position and blocking Martinez’s view on the first goal? I havnt seen any of the tv coverage but there has been no discussion on the radio as there was about the Man City goal yesterday?

Yeah I agree, if Villa had scored that goal VAR would have ruled it out.

Two minutes in, game over.