Future Club Crest & Brand Identity

[Farlz]

The new badge is/was horse shit. It’s the best thing Heck has done so far scrapping it. 

[OutByEaster?]

7 minutes ago, Farlz said:

The new badge is/was horse shit.

It's interesting that 77% of Villa fans disagreed with you on that when it was launched. 77% is an extraordinarily high number on this sort of thing - a landslide - you'd struggle to find 77% of Villa fans that agree on anything.

I think it'd be interesting to see if that figure was the same today as it was when it was introduced, I reckon it''d be significantly lower.

The choice of the round badge was a weird and potent mixture of fashion and nostalgia, which made it very popular with the fanbase, but fashion changes fast - I think if anything that's the lesson we should be learning - and the thing we should avoid, a badge doesn't need to be 'current' or 'of it's time' - in fact, I'd suggest that maybe it shouldn't be.

I know I get on my soapbox a bit on this topic, but for me the crest should be about the values of the club and what we represent - regardless of whether those values have ideal 'optics' for commercial purposes - I don't believe that the purpose the badge or crest is to make selling stuff easier, I just don't think that's what it's for, I very much doubt that view will prevail.

 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

Emery on the badge and can we have him giving the finger?

Just for the fun of it  

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, May-Z said:

On reflection, I am very surprised that the round design got the nod when it is so similar to Chelsea's.

We just can't have a logo that is so similar to another if we're trying to be recognisable and individual.

This looks like our Lion is going the right way.. while the Chelsea Lion is going the wrong way and looking back at us in envy screaming " What have i done? Nooooo!!!! "

[Mark Albrighton]

9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

It's interesting that 77% of Villa fans disagreed with you on that when it was launched. 77% is an extraordinarily high number on this sort of thing - a landslide - you'd struggle to find 77% of Villa fans that agree on anything.

I think it'd be interesting to see if that figure was the same today as it was when it was introduced, I reckon it''d be significantly lower.

The choice of the round badge was a weird and potent mixture of fashion and nostalgia, which made it very popular with the fanbase, but fashion changes fast - I think if anything that's the lesson we should be learning - and the thing we should avoid, a badge doesn't need to be 'current' or 'of it's time' - in fact, I'd suggest that maybe it shouldn't be.

I know I get on my soapbox a bit on this topic, but for me the crest should be about the values of the club and what we represent - regardless of whether those values have ideal 'optics' for commercial purposes - I don't believe that the purpose the badge or crest is to make selling stuff easier, I just don't think that's what it's for, I very much doubt that view will prevail.

 

Might be nitpicking, but I think really all we know for certain is that 77% of Villa supporters preferred the round one to the other one.

They might have felt underwhelmed with the round one, but that it was better than the alternative.

[sidcow]

4 hours ago, Davkaus said:

Probably an easier PR message to put out than "Heck came in and asked what the **** we were playing at releasing a Chelsea badge"

I keep seeing this and frankly it's laughable. 

Our "animal" is a lion. 

So is theirs. 

Other than dropping the lion I don't see what we can do. The badges are both round. We've had a round badge for long stretches of our history. 

But the badges are just not going to get confused. 

The lion is massively different in style. Our Lion is curvy and muscular. Chelsea Lion looks bedraggled and starving like it's been lame and having to live off scavaging. 

They're different colours

They're facing different ways 

Chelsea lion has stolen a crossing ladies lollipop 

Their badge has footballs and flowers on it

Our badge has a date 

Our badge has a star

Chelsea lion has a tongue 

Our lion has the head facing forwards

Chelsea lion has its head turned. 

Frankly if you get the badges confused you must be brain damaged or something. 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by sidcow

[Keener window-cleaner]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'd take any of the dozen badges we've had for the last fifty years and keep it for the next fifty - and if it's my least favourite, then at least i'll know that over fifty years it'll be ours, it'll be us - I want kids to grow up with one badge - one they point at and say "that's Villa that is" even if its not perfectly in fashion in 2024.

It needs to be Villa's badge - not Lerner's badge or Purslow's badge or Heck's badge - it needs to outlast a few CEO's.

Fully agree with this, though I would be open to making some very minor adjustments every decade or so.

Changing the badge is a bit like a country changing its flag.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Keener window-cleaner

[Chindie]

No brand lasts 50 years. Every logo is tinkered, changed, altered in big and small ways every few years, reflecting fashions, changing usage, etc.

The current badge isn't bad it's just... tired. It doesn't stand out, it looks like a million other badges and is far too close to some, like Chelsea. In the crowd it gets swallowed up. Partly its the roundel - every other club now seems to have a roundel, and most have that very clean graphic style too. Partly its the colours, in a modern lineup of badges our colours don't pop - made worse in the graphic style that doesn't have any border/contrast/outline between the colours (which is why it looks better in a white monotone). Partly its the star which looks crowded and an afterthought. It's really not good, and clearly directed by committee.

[ThunderPower_14]

26 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

It's interesting that 77% of Villa fans disagreed with you on that when it was launched. 77% is an extraordinarily high number on this sort of thing - a landslide - you'd struggle to find 77% of Villa fans that agree on anything.

 

77% compared to the other option. That's very different to a 77% satisfaction rate. That doesn't mean it's an ideal or particularly popular badge and I think the general feeling about it is that it's a bit of a missed opportunity. 

Heck has come in, sensed that lack of satisfaction and did his job and made a change. 

Our brand is very different to the 76ers, but Heck led a rebrand there for a famous old team that focused on a consistent, modern interpretation of their historical branding and knocked it out of the park. He made sure that he fundamentally understood the brand and the fans connection to it and gave them something that satisfied that. It's been a tremendously successful branding exercise. 

If he applies the same philosophy to our rebrand, he'll give us something that makes us proud and stands the test of time. 

 

I also disagree that a badge needs to be unchanging. Your badge, like every aspect of your brand, like every aspect of your club, needs to be constantly reassessed to take sure it's doing its job optimally. Certainly the nature of a badge means that a change shouldn't be undertaken lightly or too frequently, but if it's looking long in the tooth and nolongernfit for purpose it needs to change. 

[ThunderPower_14]

13 minutes ago, Chindie said:

No brand lasts 50 years. Every logo is tinkered, changed, altered in big and small ways every few years, reflecting fashions, changing usage, etc.

The current badge isn't bad it's just... tired. It doesn't stand out, it looks like a million other badges and is far too close to some, like Chelsea. In the crowd it gets swallowed up. Partly its the roundel - every other club now seems to have a roundel, and most have that very clean graphic style too. Partly its the colours, in a modern lineup of badges our colours don't pop - made worse in the graphic style that doesn't have any border/contrast/outline between the colours (which is why it looks better in a white monotone). Partly its the star which looks crowded and an afterthought. It's really not good, and clearly directed by committee.

Bang on, and it's our 2nd committee driven badge in a row, which I think it's exactly why they're both 6/10 type efforts. 

[sharkyvilla]

I still really couldn't give much of a shit tbh

[Davkaus]

36 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I keep seeing this and frankly it's laughable. 

Our "animal" is a lion. 

So is theirs. 

Other than dropping the lion I don't see what we can do. The badges are both round. We've had a round badge for long stretches of our history. 

But the badges are just not going to get confused. 

The lion is massively different in style. Our Lion is curvy and muscular. Chelsea Lion looks bedraggled and starving like it's been lame and having to live off scavaging. 

They're different colours

They're facing different ways 

Chelsea lion has stolen a crossing ladies lollipop 

Their badge has footballs and flowers on it

Our badge has a date 

Our badge has a star

Chelsea lion has a tongue 

Our lion has the head facing forwards

Chelsea lion has its head turned. 

Frankly if you get the badges confused you must be brain damaged or something. 

 

Cool story. Now look at it in monochrome from a few feet away.

[Villa Gaffa]

This has all been an embarrassment for the club really.

Just stick with the old badge and concentrate our focus on villa park redevelopment, decent kit manufacture and increasing revenue.

[Zatman]

42 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I keep seeing this and frankly it's laughable. 

Our "animal" is a lion. 

So is theirs. 

Other than dropping the lion I don't see what we can do. The badges are both round. We've had a round badge for long stretches of our history. 

But the badges are just not going to get confused. 

 

 

We have only had a circular badge from 73-90

[OutByEaster?]

Ultimately, our opinions on the round badge are immaterial, it's gone - consigned to a weird place in history as a one season half-badge - who knows, if we win something in it, it might gain some sort of strange cult status.

I have no doubt that Heck will come up with a very good badge, and I have no doubt that some people will dislike it, I think that's a natural thing with any badge design.

As long as it's not completely horrible (and I'm pretty sure it won't be) then I think all we can do is embrace it - I hope it lasts.

 

[fruitvilla]

45 minutes ago, sidcow said:

They're facing different ways
Chelsea lion has stolen a crossing ladies lollipop 
Their badge has footballs and flowers on it
Our badge has a date 
Our badge has a star
Chelsea lion has a tongue 
Our lion has the head facing forwards
Chelsea lion has its head turned. 
Chelsea's is crap
Ours isn't

But I have to admit they are pretty similar otherwise

[Rolta]

We had the right choice—the gaslamp one. It was obvious from the start!

Edited September 26, 2023 by Rolta

[Lord Willard]

The round badges were from 1973-1990. 27 years of the 150 years. That equates to 5.5% of our history. I'm guessing the majority of the 77% in favour that voted for the round badge grew up with a round badge. It's nostalgic for the late 30s-60 year olds. 

Being born in 1991, I've got no attachment to a round badge and personally hate it for the exact same reason,  I've grown up with it being a shield. 

We should scrap the shape all together, that'll make everyone happy.

 

[HanoiVillan]

4 hours ago, Xela said:

"Lets engage with the fans for the new crest"

"What if the fans pick a badge we don't like?"

"We'll engage with them again until we get one we like"

'Would it not be simpler for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?'

[allani]

57 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said:

There was a big build up last year around the new badge and talk of a big launch for the final home game.

Then Heck was revealed to be joining and all went quiet. It still astounds me that one person, with no previous connection to the keague or the club, can at the stroke of a pen say 'no, I don't like it so this 150 year old institution isn't getting it'.

To be honest,  given all the rules nowadays about consultations etc I am surprised the club aren't getting more heat for this u-turn.

Pretty sure that the owners were the ones that didn't like the new badge, didn't like the new kit and that these were major reasons for hiring someone who has a really good, global reputation for getting these things right (allbeit in a different sport).  Our badge and kit should be immediately recognisable from a distance - our current ones really aren't.  I'm not a fan of the previous iteration of the badge either.  To be fair there are elements of both that have merit - but they both ended up (in my opinion) looking amateurish.  I've got nothing against a round badge per se - but given how many there are now, if you design a round badge it better be a really good one so that it stands out and doesn't look like something that you've just copied the base elements and then changed a few colours.

I'm a little nervous about having too many fans involved or even putting it to a general / widespread vote - designing by committee rarely works well and stifles creativity.  I'd like the club / design team to get some fairly loose ideas on what the badge should mean (rather than asking for a list of design elements) and then use that to come up with a good selection of 4 or 5 quite different interpretations for further discussion.  There are plenty of Villa fans who have experience in the industry and / or are heavily involved in particular fan groups who could assist in ensuring that the badge / future kits reflect our history but also make us more unique and easily identifiable.  That way there's still a sense of fan involvement but hopefully we can avoid getting too side-tracked by a lack of creative thinking.  By the way creative thinking doesn't mean that we have to end up with something radically different - just as innovation doesn't mean coming up with something wild and whacky just to be different.  But I think there are several things that have a deep symbolic meaning to Villa and finding a way to combine some of those whilst retaining a clarity / simplicity of design is something that could be very striking without being constrained by a list of fixed "demands". 

I think I discussed this with @OutByEaster? a while ago - but the interpretations all need to be able to reflect the fact that the badge and its constituent components will be used in a variety of contexts and need to be appropriate for all uses and formats.  So if you take the lion (assuming we have a lion) it needs to be distinctive enough that (possibly over time) it is immediately recognisable as the Villa lion in any context (including different colours) even if the rest of the badge is not present.  This immediately makes the brand more flexible but also increases the likelihood of the core concept remaining constant even if other elements are tinkered with over time as fashions change.  (This is one of the reasons why I really dislike the current badge - if you make a fundamental change to the core element {the lion} then there better be a damn good reason for doing so (because the cost of changing it everywhere will be massive) - and not just because unless you turn the lion round the badge looks almost identical to Chelsea's.)