Pau Torres

[Philosopher]

Pau is quality. We can all see that. Yesterday he was much better in possession, but Palace don't press high. So he had lot's of time to pick his passes. 

He will need a whole season before we really see him at he best. He needs to learn the language and learn about his teammates. He needs to get comfortable with the aggressive high press of some teams. He needs to adapt to the extra aggression and physicality of this league. He also has been a one club man up until this season. Huge adjustments are needed. 

We must be patient with him.  It'll be worth it!

[The_Steve]

Cash and Konsa gave Edouard way too much space for the goal following the cross which I feel is a bit lost in the discussion. Pau is pulled out of position but that’s the risk sometimes we take in the system, but he will adjust. 

[Villarocker]

I love this guy. I love the fact he came here to play a certain way and no matter what he does it. Gives the ball away and still keeps trying to do it Unai's way. 

Our league is the best in the world for a reason. He's used to a slower pace and having more time on the ball. Once he gets used to this league he's going to be the best defender in it. His passing sets him apart from everyone else. 

[CVByrne]

The issue isn't Torres. It's that we lost Mings. Torres left side of a back 3 with Mings and Konsa. It's a ball progression and creativity from deep that Emery wants and he wants that Mings a left footed CB to do the defending and cover for Torres. 

Carlos will have to do that now if he can get up to speed. 

[CVByrne]

14 hours ago, DakotaVilla said:

I disagree. The writing was always on the wall for Tyrone as soon as Pau signed. Trying to crowbar both as left footed defenders was always going to be sun optimal as pre season proved. 

When you play a back three and one CB is central it's irrelevant if he is left footed or right footed he's playing in the dead centre of a functional back 3. 

[CosmicVillan]

It worries me how things will pan out over the season, I think that's 3 goals now you could argue Pau has cost us.  I'm pretty sure Mings made plenty of mistakes as well but his were mostly down to being cocky and overplaying whereas Pau's seem to be getting outfought and outmuscled. At least when Mings cut out the stupid Cruyf turns on the edge of his own box he still had the raw pace , height and physicality to match up with the best attacking talent. I don't don't see those raw ingredients with Pau and I am not sure the benefits of his passing attributes will outweight what we've lost in that position.

Unai has earned our complete trust so if he thinks he's the best man for the job then who are we to argue but Pau just doesn't pass the eye test for me when defending one on one at the moment. 

[Steero113]

Just watched the game back this morning.

His passing and composure is world class. I'm not sure I've seen a defender out there who has better distribution. 

If he was as elite at defending as he is on the ball, he'd be at Real or City. 

[The_Rev]

35 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

If he was as elite at defending as he is on the ball, he'd be at Real or City. 

 

It's well documented now but that was all the talk after Villarreal's run to the Champions League semi finals. He was going to be the man who would replace Sergio Ramos at Real Madrid or he was going to Bayern Munich.  The real big boys decided not to pull the trigger for reasons we've all seen during his month in England.  At the moment I'm not sure we are a better team with Torres in it than we were before he signed.  It is a difficult comparison to make on such a small sample size, especially considering we've lost Mings and Moreno to injury from that water tight defence that ended 2022/23, but I think we are fools if we don't expect opposition sides to target Pau as a weak link over the course of the season.  Unai Emery has got enough credit in the bank with me that I'll believe he's got a plan to deal with it, but it's a glaring hole right now. 

[bannedfromHandV]

His passing ability, particularly long range is absolutely top notch.

Definitely lacking pace though which means he needs to be far more pragmatic when one on one (as per their goal yesterday), can’t get too tight in this league as the majority of strikers will be able to hold you off.

He’s a good player, but time will tell whether or not he’s best suited to this league.

[Risso]

7 minutes ago, The_Rev said:

 

It's well documented now but that was all the talk after Villarreal's run to the Champions League semi finals. He was going to be the man who would replace Sergio Ramos at Real Madrid or he was going to Bayern Munich.  The real big boys decided not to pull the trigger for reasons we've all seen during his month in England.  At the moment I'm not sure we are a better team with Torres in it than we were before he signed.  It is a difficult comparison to make on such a small sample size, especially considering we've lost Mings and Moreno to injury from that water tight defence that ended 2022/23, but I think we are fools if we don't expect opposition sides to target Pau as a weak link over the course of the season.  Unai Emery has got enough credit in the bank with me that I'll believe he's got a plan to deal with it, but it's a glaring hole right now. 

Agreed Nays. He's defending fairly poorly with a major mistake leading to a goal or a goal scoring opportunity every game so far. And they're not silly errors of the sort that Mings used to make when we first came up, they're basic lack of strength and pace which are going to be targeted by every team we play. He was easily outmuscled off the ball in the lead up to the Palace goal yesterday, and then when he was trying to retrieve the situation it looked like he was running through treacle. His passing is an asset against lesser teams where we have the majority of possession, but anybody with strength and pace up front he's going to struggle against. Early days and I've been wrong often enough to hope he'll come right, but you can't really learn physicality and speed. I'm not a fan, thus far.

[Pelle]

It was quite obvious that palace feared his passes. Every time he got the ball they put pressure on him so he couldn't set up the passes. Konsa was allowed to carry the ball more. Having said that I think Konsa's passing is quite underrated. He's not poor with the ball at his feet.

Anyway, yes, he got turned a bit too easy yesterday and the same against burnley and he needs to learn how to handle that. I think/hope he will. He seems to be a fairly intelligent young man and has a good teacher in UE. I think he will be good for us, but it will take some time before he's at his best.

[Tomaszk]

Nothing has been surprising about his performances so far.

[VillaChris]

48 minutes ago, The_Rev said:

 

It's well documented now but that was all the talk after Villarreal's run to the Champions League semi finals. He was going to be the man who would replace Sergio Ramos at Real Madrid or he was going to Bayern Munich.  The real big boys decided not to pull the trigger for reasons we've all seen during his month in England.  At the moment I'm not sure we are a better team with Torres in it than we were before he signed.  It is a difficult comparison to make on such a small sample size, especially considering we've lost Mings and Moreno to injury from that water tight defence that ended 2022/23, but I think we are fools if we don't expect opposition sides to target Pau as a weak link over the course of the season.  Unai Emery has got enough credit in the bank with me that I'll believe he's got a plan to deal with it, but it's a glaring hole right now. 

Pretty sure Spurs wanted him but he chose to stay at Villareal and they won the europa league so it was justified.

I largely agree with the above. Him getting done by Mateta was really poor as that guy is very far from being one of the best forwards in the league. However when losing we saw his quality on the ball. It wasn't just aimless hoofs to Ollie that Mings and Konsa have been guilty of for many seasons but calm passes into the midfield and out to the left which got our attacks going so that's a clear benefit to him in the team.

[Delphinho123]

5 hours ago, MellbergsBeard said:

He is instrumental to the way we play, everything started with him or went through him and he is just 5 games into his Villa career he is going to be massive for us but like normal we need a scape goat along with Ollie.

Makes me laugh how many people don’t understand the word scapegoat in this forum. 

Poster 1: ‘I don’t think X played well today’

Poster 2: ’OMG OMG why is there always a scapegoat’

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

12 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Makes me laugh how many people don’t understand the word scapegoat in this forum. 

Poster 1: ‘I don’t think X played well today’

Poster 2: ’OMG OMG why is there always a scapegoat’

Now you're just scapegoating peoples understanding of a scapegoat.

[Delphinho123]

7 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Now you're just scapegoating peoples understanding of a scapegoat.

It’s all Buendias fault. 

[lexicon]

Judging Pau solely on his ability in a physical battle is like judging Ollie on only his finishing. It's silly. 

Some people seem to be struggling to get their heads around players who offer more than what they'd traditionally expect of a role. 

[Keener window-cleaner]

I think he looked more solid defensively yesterday, it was of course the action that led up to the gaol where Mateta raced through, but that can happen. Otherwise he looked good defensively and helped out to cover behind Konsa a couple of times, usually it's the other way around. Bot Edouard and Mateta are quite physical players so it was a good test for him.

Attacking wise and regarding his passing it's not much to say, simply top class, and the pass for the Diaby goal that was disallowed was sublime.

I love having a CB who dictates play and controls the passing, it's like having a good old sweeper. 

[Tom13]

7 hours ago, Enda said:

We have data collection centres all around the world. For every match we have three guys using bespoke software, which overlays a live video feed on a pitch graphic: one guy watches the home team, another does the away team and the third man is essentially a data checker,” explains Banoub.

“Using a combination of hotkeys and mouse clicks they track who’s on the ball and what happens to it. So let’s say Wayne Rooney picks it up on the halfway line and passes it out wide to Antonio Valencia; they’ll click where Rooney is on the pitch when he plays it, again where Valencia receives it and the software records an X/Y coordinate and time stamp of the pass.”

Each match produces between 1,600 and 2,000 individual pieces of data, which are analysed by Opta’s in-house team and packaged for use by broadcasters, the press, brands, irritating betting ads and coaches to formulate game plans for upcoming matches by obsessively observing opponents.
 

Linky linky

My dream job tbh - love the stats.

[allani]

6 hours ago, The_Rev said:

 

It's well documented now but that was all the talk after Villarreal's run to the Champions League semi finals. He was going to be the man who would replace Sergio Ramos at Real Madrid or he was going to Bayern Munich.  The real big boys decided not to pull the trigger for reasons we've all seen during his month in England.  At the moment I'm not sure we are a better team with Torres in it than we were before he signed.  It is a difficult comparison to make on such a small sample size, especially considering we've lost Mings and Moreno to injury from that water tight defence that ended 2022/23, but I think we are fools if we don't expect opposition sides to target Pau as a weak link over the course of the season.  Unai Emery has got enough credit in the bank with me that I'll believe he's got a plan to deal with it, but it's a glaring hole right now. 

Firstly, I don't think we've been able to play the defensive formation that Emery envisaged when we signed Pau.  I think Mings would have provided the defensive "cover" needed.  For example, for the Palace goal it would probably have been Mings making the cover tackle on the halfway line rather than Pau either that or it would have been Mings and Konsa covering the centre of the pitch rather than Konsa and Cash so Edouard probably wouldn't have had as much time / space (also bear in mind that that chance becomes a lot harder if Emi doesn't slip as the ball is coming in).

Secondly, you can't just measure Pau based on our defensive numbers.  If we go from winning games 1-0 to winning games 3-1 - are we a better team or a worse team?  Pau is a better fit for the way that Emery wants to play.  If he was partly at fault for the Palace goal - you need to offset that against the ball that he played for Diaby's disallowed goal and the fact that he was heavily involved in the build up for our second goal when he gets the ball and waits for their number 14 to try and close off the square pass to Konsa which then leaves Tielemans in space, Pau plays the pass into Tielemans and Tielemans then uses the time and space to play a great ball into Watkins which lead to the penalty.  We haven't bought Pau to reduce the number of goals we concede.  We've bought him as he'll help us score more.  I think if you measure his positive influence in our goals for column and his negative influence in our goals against, he's pretty much evens.  And that's with him trying to get up to speed with the PL and us having to adjust to playing a different defensive set-up each week due to injuries.

I think all we can really say is that we will play differently with Pau in the team.  Then we'll have to assess at the end of the season whether the team has done a better job than in previous seasons.