V Sport Investments Ltd - More Villa Clubs around the world?

[allani]

13 hours ago, Don_Simon said:

This.

It's not even close to a "partnership". Are we going to give Real Union or Zed FC first option on Moussa Diaby? Maybe. Would Pau Torres ever in a billion years to there? No.

This is a takeover disguised as "learning from each other".

However, as rightly said by others, everyone is doing it and if we have to do it to keep up, I guess, so be it.

Surely the chances of Diaby or Torres going to any of these clubs is minute even if there was no V-Sports.  In fact you could easily say that the chance of them going to those clubs is significantly higher (if still very unlikely) as a result of their V-Sports link.  I mean let's take an example of Mings or Buendia looking like their injuries are progressing ahead of schedule and that they're set to return to full-time training in early Feb.  We can probably assume that their unlikely to be up to Premier League standard fitness by the end of the year - so do we give them game time for the youth team (as an over-age player) or would actually a 6 month loan to a team in the second tier of a European league actually be a huge win-win for all parties: we get players getting back to match fit, they get a player on a 6 month loan that would be a level above what they could usually expect.  Even if it "just" works at youth level - sure if Real Union uncover the next Pau Torres then we'd be in prime position to acquire that player.  But at the same time players who just aren't quite good enough (yet) for the PL can also go the other way.  I'm sure there are plenty of players in our academy who would jump at the chance of first team football in Spain as the first step on their journey to first team football (or even as their final step if they don't have the ability to play in the PL). 

I mean its quite a powerful marketing tool for us in terms of making our academy more attractive than others in the area - look at how our academy provides a pathway to PL football (Grealish, Ramsey, Kellyman - hopefully at Villa - or Archer, Ramsey at other clubs), to Champ or League football in the UK (plenty of names there on permanent or loan deals) OR you also get the opportunity to play professional football in Spain, Portugal, Japan or other countries around the world through the V-Sports network.  If you aren't quite cut out for top tier professional football there are a lot worse options than plying a career in a lower league in Spain for example.  Plus it also makes the academies at those other clubs in the network more appealing to better players - hey come join the Real Union academy because we have links with two clubs playing European club competitions and have a pathway to allow our top prospects reach those levels.  If that attracts some kids who think they'd be good enough to reach that level and then just miss out it could mean that Real Union have still got a young player on their books who they might not have been able to attract before.  I expect that there is a massive gulf between Spanish League Div 3 and the PL and that V-Sports gives the likes of Real Union the opportunity to acquire more young players who will fit somewhere in that gulf because they can dangle the carrot of - if you are good enough we can get you into top tier football in either Portugal or England.  And hey if Real Union then start improving and climbing the league(s) then maybe the model shifts and they then start benefitting from the clubs elsewhere within the network.

Done correctly, this type of model really can be beneficial to all parties, giving them all access to a wider and higher quality pool of players than they would otherwise have been able to achieve (without massive investment) on their own.  The key (as has been mentioned before) is in ensuring that the model works for everyone.  The key for the authorities is to make sure that it doesn't become exploitative and that it doesn't get used to bypass FFP regulations.

[allani]

21 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

The concept should have been banned when it first started becoming commonplace over partnership between clubs.

Horse bolted years ago.

But it's been happening pretty much since the start of football transfers.  There have always been clubs that had a "close" relationship - even if it was just down to location or a personal friendship between owners / managers that made deals more likely to happen.  We've had many clubs that we've had a close relationship to in the past which has allowed us to send more players on loan or put us in a stronger position to buy their players.  As long as those links aren't being abused then I really don't see the issue. 

If anything the V-Sports model should improve things because I am sure that there are legal framework agreements included that provide a more detailed description on the relationships and the terms of the framework that all parties need to comply with.  This should (in theory) make it easier for a club to raise a legal challenge if they feel that the relationship has become exploitative.

The issues come when either it places a limit on the aspirations of one club or the relationships are being exploited for (effectively fraudulent) reasons - e.g. to manipulate FFP regulations by allowing clubs to offload expensive players at higher values than they are worth, sign players at well below their market value (which also cover buying a player at a high cost into one club and then selling to another at a lower price).  However, the latter of these should be being picked up either by the footballing authorities or by international law - as either of the examples above are getting very close to several financial laws regarding fraud, money laundering, tax evasion, etc.  It's notoriously more difficult to define the value of a footballer compared to property, stock, components, etc - but it has happened in other areas.  Just as an example - in Italy it is very difficult to sell property for a huge profit or at well below market value - as those were practices used by the Mafia to launder cash.  So now property purchases are subject to scrutiny by the authorities (especially where values fall outside the average expected price in a specific area). 

The former issue (i.e. a club basically being used purely as a feeder team and so unable to ever dream of winning their own league) is more interesting.  But the fact that we're building this network outside of England seems less of an issue.  For example, I think you could already argue that ZED have more chance of winning the Egyptian league as a result of the V-Sports arrangement - by being able to acquire better players than they would otherwise have been able to who originally signed with ZED because it gave them a pathway to the European leagues.  My gut feel is that NSWE would be very happy if their V-Sports teams started to do really well domestically and that there's really no incentive for them in surpressing those "feeder" teams.  They have a few more challenges within Europe if suddenly they had 4 or 5 teams all playing in the same European competitions - how do you ensure that sporting integrity is kept whilst also preserving the thrill of the potential giant-killing / upset?  And I guess that is the question that the authorities need to tackle - but is it any more difficult to stop than existing match-fixing (either by club owners or gambling interests)?  Maybe the formal, contractual side to these relationships will make it easier for authorities to allege / investigate potential malpractice or much more risky for the owners to try to manipulate results as they know they will be under intense scrutiny.

[Made In Aston]

10 hours ago, Zatman said:

Definitely a financial transaction. Seriously what benefit for them to be in the partnership without it being financial

We are No different to the City model. If Newcastle were doing similar then would be uproar

The benefit to us is that we would get first choice on their best young players, use their club as a way to obtain work permits or send our players there to develop. They get access to our scouting network and coaching expertise. None of these are financial transactions. The only club we have bought into is Vitoria and even then its about 25%. Vissel & Union are partnerships as there is no transaction to buy a stake in their clubs. 

[Demitri_C]

Building the empire. At least this seems to me that NSWE are in this for the long term

I dont want any other owners. I love them and what they are doing with the club

[John]

On 07/11/2023 at 09:19, Rich192 said:

Anyone else think this is a bit dodgy?

Not me.... 

[maqroll]

On 06/11/2023 at 17:09, wishywashy said:

Looks like Real Union, which Emery owns (and is controlled by his brother), is entering the V Sports network. Basque club in the third tier of Spanish football.

https://www.noticiasdegipuzkoa.eus/futbol/2023/11/06/aston-villa-ultima-entrada-real-union-7477648.html

 

A strong indication that Emery plans on a long tenure with Villa!

[allani]

4 hours ago, maqroll said:

A strong indication that Emery plans on a long tenure with Villa!

And also a strong indication that NSWE plan on it being a long tenure too.

I don't think people outside Villa have quite realised that Emery, Monchi, etc have been offered something much more than a job here.  Obviously they still need to get results on the pitch and if we do badly on the pitch then they will be subject to the same hard questions as other people.  But they're being asked to transform the club - which is way bigger than a normal managerial appointment.  It's something that no other club would be able or willing to offer - which is why the risk of either of them being poached by another club is so low.

[Zatman]

11 hours ago, Made In Aston said:

The benefit to us is that we would get first choice on their best young players, use their club as a way to obtain work permits or send our players there to develop. They get access to our scouting network and coaching expertise. None of these are financial transactions. The only club we have bought into is Vitoria and even then its about 25%. Vissel & Union are partnerships as there is no transaction to buy a stake in their clubs. 

The Premier League are voting to ban loans between clubs with the same owners

[MaVilla]

55 minutes ago, Zatman said:

The Premier League are voting to ban loans between clubs with the same owners

sounds good, cus tbh, we dont "own" any of those clubs, we just have a minority share?

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

sounds good, cus tbh, we dont "own" any of those clubs, we just have a minority share?

Its actually for loans to be banned for teams that the owners are associated with each other. Its to stop Newcastle signing players from Saudi

[MaVilla]

17 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Its actually for loans to be banned for teams that the owners are associated with each other. Its to stop Newcastle signing players from Saudi

blimey.

so we are late to the game, and the game just got banned

[wishywashy]

 

Quote

An agreement has been reached between the Mouloudia club of Algiers and Aston Villa. The new Mouloudia training center will be supervised by the English club!

The director of the Aston Villa training center will be present at the center's inauguration ceremony.

Quote

An agreement between Mouloudia of Algeria and Aston Villa of England to benefit from the training experience at the inauguration of Mouloudia’s training center in January.
️ The English will supervise the training center in the first two seasons.
️ The signing of the twinning was postponed due to the events in Gaza.
️ The director of the Aston Villa Training Center will attend the inauguration ceremony of the Mouloudia Center.

 

[thejoker]

We seem to be ramping up these agreements now. It’s too bad that we won’t see any benefit for a few years yet. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, thejoker said:

We seem to be ramping up these agreements now. It’s too bad that we won’t see any benefit for a few years yet. 

I think planting seeds and marketing are facets of this deal which are hugely being slept on here.

The Villa brand will be penetrating these markets and getting more exposure by default.

Surely well be setting up satellite shops etc in these places as well I assume?

[Sulberto21]

1 hour ago, wishywashy said:

 

 

We’re pronounced Astoon Feelah in Arabic. Although the alternative is Weela if using the letter و (waw). 

[villa4europe]

12 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I think planting seeds and marketing are facets of this deal which are hugely being slept on here.

The Villa brand will be penetrating these markets and getting more exposure by default.

Surely well be setting up satellite shops etc in these places as well I assume?

Hopefully

Many moons ago I was in hangzhou China, the stadium there had an arsenal club shop

[sne]

Taking a large slice in the Asian market will likely we difficult unless we start playing in red or manage to create something really, really special. The North African market is a interesting angle I guess.

[dounavilla]

3 minutes ago, sne said:

Taking a large slice in the Asian market will likely we difficult unless we start playing in red or manage to create something really, really special. The North African market is a interesting angle I guess.

I thought claret was red.

[Ghost]

I've been keeping an eye on Vissel Kobe since the news of the partnership was announced.

For anyone interested, there are 2 more rounds of the season left.

Vissel currently sit top of the league with a 2 point gap between them and second place Yokohama F Marinos.

Looks like it could go right down to the wire.

[Demitri_C]

7 hours ago, Ghost said:

I've been keeping an eye on Vissel Kobe since the news of the partnership was announced.

For anyone interested, there are 2 more rounds of the season left.

Vissel currently sit top of the league with a 2 point gap between them and second place Yokohama F Marinos.

Looks like it could go right down to the wire.

You been watching the games? Any decent talent you seen?