Pongo Waring Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Villa starting to act like a big club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: The issue is now if you want villa to be successful you have to do things like this. If not we fall behind and just become a everton or a palace. We all would prefer it to be back like it was in the 80s or 90s but its sinply not gonna happen. Thats not attitude thats realism im afraid Passively accepting the status quo is an attitude. You’re entitled to it, but I’m not going to do that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 47 minutes ago, bobzy said: I think you'll find that the head of V Sports Group (Aston Villa) will be the prime beneficiary here, but some smaller benefits to the other teams in the group. This is basically the same as the City Group model. Girona, as an example, are currently sat 2nd in La Liga - utterly amazing for that club. They've got a player on loan from Man City (City Group), a player on loan from Troyes (City Group) (Savio; very weird transfer situation if you want to read into it) and bought a player from Man City. It's the Group acting in the best interests of Man City, but helping the smaller members. This is what V Sports will be aiming for. Interesting. If Girona stay second and qualify for the Champions League City will be banned from transferring players and scouting details with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 1 minute ago, MrBlack said: Interesting. If Girona stay second and qualify for the Champions League City will be banned from transferring players and scouting details with them Presumably Troyes wouldn't be, though. So Man City -> Troyes -> Girona, if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 3 hours ago, bobzy said: Presumably Troyes wouldn't be, though. So Man City -> Troyes -> Girona, if needed. Scratch what I said. Apparently City group only own 47% so there apparently is no conflict of interest. The issue we had was we owned more than 50% of Vitoria. Edit: scratch that further , we owned 46% so uefa making it up as they go along?... Quote Aston Villa owners forced to reduce stake in Vitoria de Guimaraes so both clubs can play in Conference League https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/aston-villa-owners-reduce-stake-vitoria-guimaraes-both-clubs-conference-league-2445066 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Just now, MrBlack said: Scratch what I said. Apparently City group only own 47% so there apparently is no conflict of interest. The issue we had was we owned more than 50% of Vitoria. That whole situation confused me to be honest. We went from 50%+ to something around 27% (I think) - why?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 1 minute ago, bobzy said: That whole situation confused me to be honest. We went from 50%+ to something around 27% (I think) - why?! We were both in the Conference League and UEFA forced it. Brighton had to do similar with Union SG Then again Red Bull have played each other in the Champions League a few years back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Just now, Zatman said: We were both in the Conference League and UEFA forced it. Brighton had to do similar with Union SG Then again Red Bull have played each other in the Champions League a few years back Did the reduction need to be that far? We couldn't have gone to 49%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, bobzy said: That whole situation confused me to be honest. We went from 50%+ to something around 27% (I think) - why?! scratch that further , we owned 46% so uefa making it up as they go along?... Quote Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens bought a 46% stake in the Portuguese club in February but have reduced it to 29% to comply with Uefa rules https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/aston-villa-owners-reduce-stake-vitoria-guimaraes-both-clubs-conference-league-2445066 Quote Girona will be permitted to play in European competition next season after being granted a UEFA licence.... As per reports from Mundo Deportivo, the club were keen to receive assurance from UEFA over their eligibility, due to a connection with Manchester City, via the City Football Group (CFG) ownership structure However, as CFG only have a 47% stake in Girona, it is not classified as a conflict of interest, within cross-UEFA competitions. https://www.football-espana.net/2023/05/15/girona-uefa-licence-2023-24-manchester-city/amp The inference seems to be that they'd be fine to play in the champions league, but maybe they're just approved to play in conference or europa... but if it was the same competition then Uefa would revisit it? Edited October 20, 2023 by MrBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 44 minutes ago, El Zen said: Passively accepting the status quo is an attitude. You’re entitled to it, but I’m not going to do that. Of course you can feel that way i get it. Just saying its the way of the game if anything its going to get worse as we seeing with Newcastle. Money talks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Rich192 said: I think we changed the plan with Khedr because the Premier League relaxed its rule about signing players on points based system, you're now allowed up to four per season that don't need to qualify. So whereas before it wouldn't have been possible without sending him to Vitoria first, we were now able to sign him directly ourselves. Forgot about that, yeah you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 33 minutes ago, MrBlack said: scratch that further , we owned 46% so uefa making it up as they go along?... https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/aston-villa-owners-reduce-stake-vitoria-guimaraes-both-clubs-conference-league-2445066 https://www.football-espana.net/2023/05/15/girona-uefa-licence-2023-24-manchester-city/amp The inference seems to be that they'd be fine to play in the champions league, but maybe they're just approved to play in conference or europa... but if it was the same competition then Uefa would revisit it? If it was city they would hav edone nothing. The whole thing stinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 On 19/10/2023 at 08:09, OutByEaster? said: we really are going with the V aren't we? V for Victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 2 hours ago, bobzy said: And people have always moaned about them such as Chelsea with Vitesse. City Group bad, V Sports good. It's just rank hypocrisy to be honest. Because it's quite easy to see that there's quite a big difference between an arrangement where a few Japanese academy players may end up signing for Villa or Vitoria at some point and an obviously dodgy parent feeder system with 30 loanees and it turned out that Abramovich was secretly bankrolling the owners of the club £100m for the arrangement, with allegations that Chelsea even tried to sabotage them to avoid UEFA's wrath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Just now, wishywashy said: Because it's quite easy to see that there's quite a big difference between an arrangement where a few Japanese academy players may end up signing for Villa or Vitoria at some point and an obviously dodgy parent feeder system with 30 loanees and it turned out that Abramovich was secretly bankrolling the owners of the club £100m for the arrangement, with allegations that Chelsea even tried to sabotage them to avoid UEFA's wrath? The bankrolling was never an issue (at the time, for fans of other clubs) - it was the collecting of players and loaning them out. Obviously, clubs can't do this anymore so the way around it is to get a multi-club model and get them to bring in the talent. I'm almost certain this will happen under the V Sports umbrella but, hey, it might be different for... some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Pongo Waring said: Villa starting to act like a big club! get some soap in the ladies then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 19 hours ago, MotoMkali said: Japan is a wealthy nation with 120 million people. Athletic achievement as a nation strongly correlates with wealth and population. Japan is a massively untapped market for athletic talent in football Look at south Korea a country with a population half the size and they've produced son, kang-in and min chae all of whom are in the top 100 in the world atm. Japans largest sport is baseball and they've arguably produced the most talented baseball player ever in shohei ohtani who when he was fit the last few seasons was the best pitcher and batter in the sport. Baseball is boring as bat shit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted October 20, 2023 Author Share Posted October 20, 2023 10 hours ago, wishywashy said: My main gripe with multi club models is when clubs are taken over and put into these models as 'feeders' without their supporters having no say (777 Partners). So far this has been entirely avoided in V Sports: Vitoria is still majority supporter-owned and had to vote to approve the arrangement several times in the first place, they could kick us out if they felt they were getting shafted by us. To be honest I think there's a clear plan in mind with V Sports, which you can't say for a lot of multi club models to be honest. Rather than be everything all at once, from what Vitoria's president and some articles have alluded to, I get the impression the overarching goal is to create this large worldwide academy network more than anything else. You've got clubs/academies in Egypt, Japan and Senegal who now have established pathways to European football in Villa and Vitoria. It's not like Villa now have any sway over how Vissel Kobe operates or anything, but having that set in stone pathway to European football (to both Villa AND Vitoria being key here) is obviously a huge selling point and advantage for these clubs. And for their trouble they get close access to a Premier League team's resources. Saying that, the Vitoria issues with UEFA seems to have been a bit of a fiasco. Perhaps between that and the failed bid for an MLS team they've changed up their strategy a little bit. I'm sure I read before we signed him that Omar Khedr from ZED was going to sign for Vitoria a few months back, but clearly we must have decided that he should go straight to us when UEFA blocked that Vitoria --> Villa pathway for at least a season. The idea seems to be the top end guys come to us but in exchange these other clubs end up with more of the next rung down of players because of that connection. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo Waring Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Anyone going to go to Japan for the pre season tour? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 1 hour ago, MotoMkali said: The idea seems to be the top end guys come to us but in exchange these other clubs end up with more of the next rung down of players because of that connection. The advantage being that the next rung down may still be a rung up from the level that those clubs might have been able to achieve on their own. I think it makes a lot of sense as long as the situation remains a largely win-win for the clubs involved. The issue is more when any good players are automatically passed to one team (for well below market value) or when players are sold the other way for over their market value in an attempt to gain a FFP advantage. I think ultimately authorities will start paying more attention to both situations as they are within the realm of fraud and / or money laundering and there are detailed regulations around ensuring that companies don't trade assets at inflated / deflated prices in order to gain a competitive or taxation advantage. I think football transfers have slightly managed to avoid close scrutiny to date - but I suspect some of the Saudi deals will have attracted attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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