Steven Gerrard

[MaVilla]

2 hours ago, Made In Aston said:

This statement concerns me in terms of strategic direction at the club. I thought we were adopting a certain consistent style from grassroots to first team, so when a new manager came in they would keep a similar set up. This meant we wouldn't have to keep overhauling the squad in a disjointed way everytime a new manager was appointed. 

to be fair, the remit Deano set himself when he joined Villa was to play a forward thinking, attacking, exciting style of football, he pretty much said those exact words.

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, which may or may not have been the fault of Deano, or his coaches (maybe influence came from others at times for style of play?),  or maybe poor signings, or a mix of all these things, Villa under Deano did slowly devolve in to back to front, lumping the ball down the line and hoping something will happen.

Gerrard has basically implied he wants a very similar style to what Deano first said when he joined, so in reality, the "style of expected/desired play" is consistent, what has changed over the last 3 years is the desired or stated desire to play a certain way, devolved/evolved in to something that wasnt that.

Will be interesting to see how we develop under Gerrard and his team.

Edited November 21, 2021 by MaVilla

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

As another psoter said above though, the dick swinging competetion we are having for Dean and Steven is a bit weird. They are grown men, who can swing their own penises. Lol

Surely we can post without having an unnecessary dig at either?

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[dont_do_it_doug.]

10 minutes ago, Made In Aston said:

That's up for debate. But possession football is more about keeping the ball under pressure, which is something very few in the squad seen able to do. 

Do they, or is it an issue with coaching? 

We obviously have our issues and areas in which we need to improve, but I think it remains to be seen whether they can play a style of football that the previous manager professed to want from them but never seemed totally committed to implementing. I don't think every player in a possession based side has to be Xavi either. 

I'm not saying it will happen, I'm just saying I don't buy the logic that this is a departure. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by dont_do_it_doug.

[mjmooney]

40 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Dunno.

Would we have made subs at 0 - 0 while there was " nothing in it " .

Or wait till we conceded?

Either way, I've tried to stay away from convos/comments like these, for obvious reasons.

The trajectory and performances we saw over the last 5 games would suggest absolutely f#cking not, but there is no telling what could/would have happened.

There could be an argument that if Ollie hadn't scored that stunner, we get nothing  ( moments of brilliance )

There was definitely a feeling in the match thread of "This will inevitably end with a late Brighton winner". 

[MaVilla]

11 minutes ago, Made In Aston said:

That's up for debate. But possession football is more about keeping the ball under pressure, which is something very few in the squad seen able to do. 

 

1 minute ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Do they, or is it an issue with coaching? 

We obviously have our issues and areas in which we need to improve, but I think it remains to be seen whether they can play a style of football that the previous manager professed to want from them but never seemed totally committed to implementing. I don't think every player in a possession based side has to be Xavi either. 

I'm not saying it will happen, I'm just saying I don't buy the logic that this is a departure. 

 

some good points.

In terms of "possession football", i dont think of any of us expect it, or desire it to be "tika taka" football, in reality, tika taka is becoming a style that has been surpassed by superior styles of play that many top teams implement now.

For me personally, i dont expect tika taka, but i would love to see us be able to hold on to the ball when necessary, be composed, not panic, pick a pass, retain possession, be cool headed, and be able as part of our wider armoury, to be able to keep the ball if or when needed, as part of a wider playing style.

The problem over .....well.....the last multiple years, is most of our players cant pass 5 yards, in a straight line, retain the ball, they generally lack composure or just dont have the mental ability or capacity to retain possession when its required.

I would just like us to have the players to do it when needed, ball retention and controlling a match at certain points is critical to be a top team, as well as numerous other things like intelligent breaks, changes of pace, sometimes sweeping long balls to cut teams open etc, as well as many others key styles.

If we want to aim for the top 8, 6 etc, we will have to develop the ability to control the ball when required, and we are quite a way off that ability right now, hopefully we will see it improve with coaching, tactics and some new signings etc.

[jim]

1 hour ago, Tommo_b said:

Genuine question… do we win that game with Dean Smith in charge instead of Gerard? 

I think you need to ask if we saw signs of improvement in the previous 5 games. I’d say the answer is no, we were actually getting worse. Based on that I believe the previous manger would have lost that match. 

Also telling when the players come out and say things had improved under Steven.

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, Tommo_b said:

Genuine question… do we win that game with Dean Smith in charge instead of Gerard? 

No

Look at mings goal, no way he puts that much effort in under Smith 

Your opinions of Smith and gerrard will then dictate if you think that after 3 training sessions Gerrard has magically coached players to stop being shit

McGinn and Targett are the same, where have those performances been for the last 2 months? 

[Rightdm00]

6 hours ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:

 

Feel for the little guy. Had to take off his fave Salah kit for a photo. 

[Mark Albrighton]

2 hours ago, Tommo_b said:

Genuine question… do we win that game with Dean Smith in charge instead of Gerard? 

Gut feeling is no.

But after losing to Southampton with Villa, I’d have guessed he would lose to Southampton with Norwich. So what do I know?

 

Very pleased for Gerrard and the team. Early days and acknowledging Brighton aren’t exactly in scintillating form at the moment (although better than our form had been admittedly), but initial signs look promising.

[Peter Griffin]

2 hours ago, macandally said:

Have to be honest repetitive posting of this is getting a bit dull now.  You are choosing to link the lack of confidence in Gerrards experience with loyalty to Dean.  Some feel he could have got a tune out of this team, others not, but fact is this is the Gerrard thread so what people think of Dean is irrelevant here.

So what is the reason after stopping the 5 game loss, keeping a clean sheet and playing some organised football for the negative discourse on Gerrard. I fully appreciate that we do not know how he will work out. Nobody does. All we can do his speculate as to what may happen. But we have the evidence of one game to start forming an opinion. It is impossible to be either fully confident or completely dismissive of Gerrard, yet the doubt it being raised. Why is this? Why not simply base the opinion on the 90 minutes? 

[TomC]

3 hours ago, Tommo_b said:

Genuine question… do we win that game with Dean Smith in charge instead of Gerard? 

No way of telling, of course. But if we had won it, we would have won it a different way.

The most obvious difference for me was the way we pressed. It's more of a mid block and is designed more to force the ball down the wings than to win it high. I thought it worked well. Brighton had stretches of possession but not much in dangerous spots. I liked the tactics. I will be curious to see how much of it is Gerrard's preferred system and how much was tailored to Brighton.

Ashley Young played well and who made Watkins' goal. That would not have happened under Deano, who seemed to have lost faith in him.

The subs showed a very different way of thinking. Bailey for Ings, giving us a forward line of Buendia - Watkins - Bailey? Never saw that under Deano. Young for Buendia, giving us a forward line of Young - Watkins - Bailey? That never happened under Deano. Then Ghaza for Ramsey giving us Ghaza - Watkins - Bailey (and pushing Young back to midfield)? Don't think that we saw that one under Deano, though I'm not quite as sure on that one. Gerrard clearly has some different ideas about how he's going to fit some players.

 

 

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, Rightdm00 said:

Feel for the little guy. Had to take off his fave Salah kit for a photo. 

Aw, c’mon, he looks pleased as punch. Bet that’s the first time he’s had a PL stadium as backdrop to his photo.

[Mister_a]

2 hours ago, MaVilla said:

For me personally, i dont expect tika taka, but i would love to see us be able to hold on to the ball when necessary, be composed, not panic, pick a pass, retain possession, be cool headed, and be able as part of our wider armoury, to be able to keep the ball if or when needed, as part of a wider playing style.

The problem over .....well.....the last multiple years, is most of our players cant pass 5 yards, in a straight line, retain the ball, they generally lack composure or just dont have the mental ability or capacity to retain possession when its required.

I’m not so sure this is the problem, it’s more of a case that our movement off the ball has just been so unbelievably shit that the options are hoof, or give the ball to the opposition, who are pressing better than us.

I really hope he manages to get our movement off the ball up to scratch quickly.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Mister_a
Added line

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

 

[macandally]

7 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

So what is the reason after stopping the 5 game loss, keeping a clean sheet and playing some organised football for the negative discourse on Gerrard. I fully appreciate that we do not know how he will work out. Nobody does. All we can do his speculate as to what may happen. But we have the evidence of one game to start forming an opinion. It is impossible to be either fully confident or completely dismissive of Gerrard, yet the doubt it being raised. Why is this? Why not simply base the opinion on the 90 minutes? 

I think you answered your own question, there are positive from the first game, the interview with Ollie suggests a tighter regime and a higher set of standards, again positives, so generally the feedback is good as you would expect after a win.

Doubts are raised due to Gerrards experience in this league and coaching in general, that is not due to being emotionally attached to Dean, it’s because he is still in coaching terms a relative novice.

The two things can be separated! 

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, macandally said:

I think you answered your own question, there are positive from the first game, the interview with Ollie suggests a tighter regime and a higher set of standards, again positives, so generally the feedback is good as you would expect after a win.

Doubts are raised due to Gerrards experience in this league and coaching in general, that is not due to being emotionally attached to Dean, it’s because he is still in coaching terms a relative novice.

The two things can be separated! 

I think people who use these lazy terms like “novice” and “rookie” to describe Gerrard are overlooking the wealth of experience he brings with his coaching team, one that has worked together successfully for three years at another club.

Sticking to facts not tropes, could you highlight any aspects of Saturday’s performance that illustrated this “novice” status?

[MrBlack]

2 hours ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:

 

This is not a coincidence. Gerrard's not the messiah, and the players are the same people that Smith was playing, but whatever they were told worked for them this time.

You could argue even if Dean had said the exact same things to them, that the result wouldn't have been the same. A new manager invites new pressure on players for their positions. They all looked to be playing for their places. That probably wouldn't have been the case under Smith.

[StanBalaban]

11 hours ago, mjmooney said:

There was definitely a feeling in the match thread of "This will inevitably end with a late Brighton winner". 

I thought there was a palpable release of pressure once Watkins scored. The crowd and the players were so massively lifted, that we went up several gears afterwards that were previously unavailable in the first 80 mins.

Stephen Warnock on the TV was saying that the crowd sometimes need to understand how the opposition plays, and Brighton are always going to have more possession. The anxiety of possibly losing 6 in a row clearly transferred from the crowd to the players to the extent that, once we gained possession, there was a tendency to trying an pump the ball forwards immediately. Inevitably, that often led to possession gifted back to Brighton once again.  

Palace are a different type of team, so it will be interesting to see how Gerrard approaches the game. Having those first 3 points was so important. If we can get a win here, it makes things a lot better going into Man City, Leicester and Liverpool.

[Peter Griffin]

2 hours ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:

 

That's impressive insofar as that is exactly what SG said his game plan was. It is encouraging that he is able to actually implement a plan. Lots of managers know what the plan should be but are unable to effect it

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, Spoony said:

Exactly. Had like a week at best to implement new tactics and a new philosophy and he probably doesn’t even know all of the players’ names yet. And he got a victory against a tough Brighton team after making game-changing subs. But sure, that’s not “good” to a Villa fan. 

Disagree - it's the same tactics and philosophy we've had for a fair old while.