Tom13 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 10 hours ago, villalad21 said: I'm really not sure. Ings seem so slow moving and unfit to me. And it's not just last game. It's all season. We seem to be playing better as team without him and I think he is just aging very badly. Similar to Rooney. As I've said I think his better days are well past him. I have to agree with this. A couple of his finishes have been superb, but outside of that, Ings has offered sweet FA and looked very sluggish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted December 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 16, 2021 49 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said: Who do you drop? Young who looked knackered or buendia who got a knock 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 6 hours ago, Zatman said: A classic attempt to change the subject again Last 6 Ballon d'Or winners were all in their 30s. I can't with this guy sometimes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 1 hour ago, jimmygreaves said: Who do you drop? Young wasn't great v Norwich so probably right time to give the old bones a rest. I'd have Ings playing in slightly withdrawn role and see how that looks. Buendia and Carney as other two and then McGinn and Luiz as the deeper two. Mind you can't drop Ramsey after Tuesday so he'll likely still start ahead of Carney. Suddenly midfield selection is a nice problem to have. Burnley at home is ideal game to give them both a go anyway as not like we're going to be outnumbered in midfield as Burnley always play a basic 4-4-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 7 hours ago, Rightdm00 said: Last 6 Ballon d'Or winners were all in their 30s. I can't with this guy sometimes. In fairness you can't hold up the 6 most outstanding players in world football as evidence that all footballers over 30 excel. Some do indeed have fabulous careers post 30. Others not so much... Michael Owen, Jack Wilshere, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 10 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: The same bloke who was being lauded for his work rate, all round game and acrobatic goal when we just signed him? I might agree with you on the " seem to be playing better as a team without him " part but there are so many other variables to that! The rest seems like hyperbole to drive home effect if I'm honest. Yes he does try to press but it just isn't the intensity or pace required. He can't do it with the intensity Watkins can. And that's a huge deal. Watkins is so important for this team. It can't be stated enough. The striker situation is not even a debate for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, jimmygreaves said: In fairness you can't hold up the 6 most outstanding players in world football as evidence that all footballers over 30 excel. Some do indeed have fabulous careers post 30. Others not so much... Michael Owen, Jack Wilshere, etc.. You've just done the exact same thing by holding up the most crocked players in world football..... Edited December 17, 2021 by Steero113 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorke81 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 1 hour ago, villalad21 said: Yes he does try to press but it just isn't the intensity or pace required. He can't do it with the intensity Watkins can. And that's a huge deal. Watkins is so important for this team. It can't be stated enough. The striker situation is not even a debate for me. I agree that Watkins playing as a striker is important for the team. Watkins pushed down in midfield to accomodate Ings is a horror show... as many already stated on here, it should be Watkins or Ings, the problem is when we try to shoehorn both in there. I'm not really too concerned whether the striker we decide to field is Watkins or Ings... Having Ings as backup for Watkins - or the other way around if the coaching team finds it the best option - is a good situation really, a big improvement on last season! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Steero113 said: You've just done the exact same thing by holding up the most crocked players in world football..... It's really not.... I've cited a couple of examples of players who've not performed into their 30's. Many have gone on to enjoy long, successful careers. Equally many have not. I think it's entirely fair to suggest that at 29 a player might be in the twilight of their career. I'm not suggesting that this may apply to Ings, I'm also not dismissing it. (Am I missing something here. I'm trying to post a balanced perspective. People highlight the bits they want to validate their position but completely ignore the rest of the post. Why, I just don't understand.) Edited December 17, 2021 by jimmygreaves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 2 hours ago, villalad21 said: Yes he does try to press but it just isn't the intensity or pace required. He can't do it with the intensity Watkins can. And that's a huge deal. Watkins is so important for this team. It can't be stated enough. The striker situation is not even a debate for me. Don't get me wrong, I do have some reservations now about, if this will turn out to have been a relatively pointless signing. However, I don't think it's his fault, and I don't question his quality or effort. He's had a stop start season, with a combination of injury, management change, system change and us just not being sure how to use him effectively yet. ( Maybe we never will ) We are just a Watkins injury away from the whole dynamic changing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 Slows us down a lot. Not a bad player. Just a bad fit. Have to be honest and say he's been a failure so far. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 (edited) He just feels on the periphery of the game all the time. Tonight he worked hard but never felt he'd do anything once he got ball in final third. I know Lukaku cost loads more but Chelsea immediately had a threat in final third when he came on while for us it's the opposite. Not sure what solution is other than moving him on end of season. Would've been great for us in summer 2019, not so much currently. Edited December 26, 2021 by VillaChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 Just now, VillaChris said: He just feels on the periphery of the game all the time. Tonight he worked hard but never felt he'd do anything once he got ball in final third. I know Lukaku cost loads more but Chelsea immediately had a threat in final third when he came on while for us it's the opposite. Because Lukaku got pace and strength. Key ingredients in English football. Ings looked to have lost a yard or 2 of pace, and it just isn't working for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 Ings was very good in the first part of the season. He's just back from injury. I'm not sure it was the best use of £30m, or where he really fits in our best eleven, but he's not a bad player. Not his best game today mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 People called it at the time. I was hopeful we could somehow make it work, but what an enormous waste of money. We needed a better backup than Davis, but shoehorning Ings and Watkins into the team is getting the best of neither of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpants Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 I would give him a run in the team and bench Watkins. It's not like Watkins is doing anything to keep his place, the never rending enehergy from last year is not there this year. Thanks fatherhood. I always hated when we played against Ings, he's one of the craftiest little ba5tards in the league. I'd give him a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaphan04 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 Looked like he lacked some sharpness today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 Looked off the pace to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicho Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 Whatever we think we gain from having him up top we lose far more by not having Watkins there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 5 minutes ago, kevpants said: I would give him a run in the team and bench Watkins. It's not like Watkins is doing anything to keep his place, the never rending enehergy from last year is not there this year. Thanks fatherhood. I always hated when we played against Ings, he's one of the craftiest little ba5tards in the league. I'd give him a chance. Ollie's scored 4 in his last 6 or something. Ings scored a penalty last minute v Watford, that great goal v Newcastle (not going to score like that every week though) and then the header v Wolves two months later. Given his all round game has been very mediocre he's doing far less than Ollie to stay in team and just has the air of many other big name striker signings who haven't stepped up for us in last 20 years. Positive this time is our season dosen't hang on him finding form like others as we've picked up some really good results with him out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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