Team shape, tactics and personnel

[romavillan]

I just unrolled that long twitter thread, it's really good, so enjoy a deeper understanding of just how shit we are

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1556375171744817152.html
 

Catching up on Bournemouth vs Aston Villa.

It feels like Villa are caught in-between styles. Below, Kamara has dropped down to make a back three (not sure it is needed against 1 CF..) but, at the same time, McGinn has made a forward run. This leaves the midfield empty.

If Kamara drops between the CBs, one of two things ideally happen:
1) McGinn holds his midfield position, ensuring Villa’s rest defence is correct.
2) Cash plays backwards and Villa try and take advantage of their overload (CB stepping in to midfield, maybe).

Or both.. 

This is from a long kick by Bournemouth’s GK (following a press). No aerial challenge, a lack of screening, chasing the ball, it all feels very panicked.

Kamara doesn’t feel like he can press because Ramsey is too far forwards.

It’s all a bit soft as well..   

Kamara has dropped between the CBs & McGinn has run forwards. Again, it feels like they are stuck between 2 styles. They should probably be patient & keep the ball. Maybe go out the other side. But Konsa plays long. If Pearson flicks the ball anywhere else they are in trouble…   

Bournemouth had some similar characteristics to Aston Villa. They split and played short with the intention of creating space for a longer pass. But their midfield 2 stayed behind the ball (to prevent counter attacks) and they had a target in Kieffer Moore. 

With Villa, I think I covered most points last season and it appears (early days of course) to be similar issues:
• Due to their defensive set up, I think they are vulnerable when defending corners (the absence of Mings could further increase the problem). 

• They need to find the right CB pairing (I still actually think this could be Chambers & Mings..)
• I personally wouldn’t have signed Coutinho. A dribbler/pacey/physical FWD was a greater priority.
• The attack overly relies on crosses which means a target man makes sense.. 

• The signing of Ings has caused both Managers a problem and needs resolving. He works best in a front 2.
• It feels like the formation & style of play has still not been nailed down. They haven’t fully committed to anything. 

• The roles and positioning of the two number 8s requires improvement.
• Out of possession, they don’t really press but still leave gaps in behind their midfield and out wide.

Anyway, early days. Let’s see how the next game looks

Edited August 9, 2022 by romavillan

[duke313]

1 hour ago, romavillan said:

I just unrolled that long twitter thread, it's really good, so enjoy a deeper understanding of just how shit we are

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1556375171744817152.html
 

Catching up on Bournemouth vs Aston Villa.

It feels like Villa are caught in-between styles. Below, Kamara has dropped down to make a back three (not sure it is needed against 1 CF..) but, at the same time, McGinn has made a forward run. This leaves the midfield empty.

If Kamara drops between the CBs, one of two things ideally happen:
1) McGinn holds his midfield position, ensuring Villa’s rest defence is correct.
2) Cash plays backwards and Villa try and take advantage of their overload (CB stepping in to midfield, maybe).

Or both.. 

This is from a long kick by Bournemouth’s GK (following a press). No aerial challenge, a lack of screening, chasing the ball, it all feels very panicked.

Kamara doesn’t feel like he can press because Ramsey is too far forwards.

It’s all a bit soft as well..   

Kamara has dropped between the CBs & McGinn has run forwards. Again, it feels like they are stuck between 2 styles. They should probably be patient & keep the ball. Maybe go out the other side. But Konsa plays long. If Pearson flicks the ball anywhere else they are in trouble…   

Bournemouth had some similar characteristics to Aston Villa. They split and played short with the intention of creating space for a longer pass. But their midfield 2 stayed behind the ball (to prevent counter attacks) and they had a target in Kieffer Moore. 

With Villa, I think I covered most points last season and it appears (early days of course) to be similar issues:
• Due to their defensive set up, I think they are vulnerable when defending corners (the absence of Mings could further increase the problem). 

• They need to find the right CB pairing (I still actually think this could be Chambers & Mings..)
• I personally wouldn’t have signed Coutinho. A dribbler/pacey/physical FWD was a greater priority.
• The attack overly relies on crosses which means a target man makes sense.. 

• The signing of Ings has caused both Managers a problem and needs resolving. He works best in a front 2.
• It feels like the formation & style of play has still not been nailed down. They haven’t fully committed to anything. 

• The roles and positioning of the two number 8s requires improvement.
• Out of possession, they don’t really press but still leave gaps in behind their midfield and out wide.

Anyway, early days. Let’s see how the next game looks

A target man would make sense. If we are relaying on full backs for width, there greatest threat will be from crosses, so they need something to aim at. We have a ready made target man in Davis, could be worth a shot. He’d be able to knock the ball down for Coutinho, Bailey etc

Edited August 9, 2022 by duke313

[villa89]

1 hour ago, romavillan said:

Anyway, early days. Let’s see how the next game looks

Its not early days really though, we played the same bizarre system last season and it didn't work then either. Nothing has changed.

[daft]

1 minute ago, duke313 said:

A target man would make sense. If we are relaying on full backs for width, there greatest threat will be from crosses, so they need something to aim at. We have a ready made target man in Davis, could be worth a shot. He’d be able to kick the ball down for Coutinho, Bailey etc

There are other ways of crossing the ball that doesn't really demand a towrering target man. City cuts back into the box with low crosses to tap in or power home from close, which will make Haaland a perfect player since his movement and strength will wreak havoc. We don't have to balloon balls into the box from touch. Cutting back would probably be a better option for us even though we don't have a Haaland, but Ings would probably do somewhat better in such cases, even though he absolutely looked like a man without any power to his finishing Friday. 

We need a bit more movement to open open some more space though, low crosses or not. 

[villa89]

4 minutes ago, duke313 said:

 We have a ready made target man in Davis, could be worth a shot. 

If kicking crosses into to Keenan Davis is the answer then we should just forfeit our place in the league. That's league one stuff. 

[Tomaszk]

17 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Yep - emptying the midfield is our major issue - we need to either have someone who sits next to Kamara or two players who aren't number tens and can hold the halfway line.

When we have the ball, Kamara drops deep - good - but Ramsey and McGinn go forward and there's just a massive empty space - plus by going forward into our already confused one-wing front three, Ramsey and McGinn take away space up front and we end up crowding out our own attacks.

If we have the same issues and lose the next two, do you think we should replace Gerrard?

The issues with his formation have been clear and obvious since he joined. I don't think he understands it's flawed.

[duke313]

6 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

If we have the same issues and lose the next two, do you think we should replace Gerrard?

The issues with his formation have been clear and obvious since he joined. I don't think he understands it's flawed.

He thinks because it worked in Scotland it will work here.

[PeterSw]

13 minutes ago, daft said:

There are other ways of crossing the ball that doesn't really demand a towrering target man. City cuts back into the box with low crosses to tap in or power home from close, which will make Haaland a perfect player since his movement and strength will wreak havoc. We don't have to balloon balls into the box from touch. Cutting back would probably be a better option for us even though we don't have a Haaland, but Ings would probably do somewhat better in such cases, even though he absolutely looked like a man without any power to his finishing Friday. 

We need a bit more movement to open open some more space though, low crosses or not. 

This is what baffled me. If you are insistent on width and getting crosses into the box, then surely they need to be low balls for Ings/Watkins or the other forwards coming into the box. The only only way we would of had any success with the high crosses was that maybe the forwards could get to the second ball but even that was a stretch.

[Tomaszk]

1 minute ago, duke313 said:

He thinks because it worked in Scotland it will work here.

It didn't though!  Dammit Stevie.

He won the league when Celtic imploded.

[duke313]

20 minutes ago, daft said:

There are other ways of crossing the ball that doesn't really demand a towrering target man. City cuts back into the box with low crosses to tap in or power home from close, which will make Haaland a perfect player since his movement and strength will wreak havoc. We don't have to balloon balls into the box from touch. Cutting back would probably be a better option for us even though we don't have a Haaland, but Ings would probably do somewhat better in such cases, even though he absolutely looked like a man without any power to his finishing Friday. 

We need a bit more movement to open open some more space though, low crosses or not. 

But that’s not what our players were doing, they were lumping it in the box when they did need a target man.

[daft]

2 minutes ago, duke313 said:

But that’s not what our players were doing, they were lumping it in the box when they did need a target man.

Exactly, and we don't really had the players for it in that game. It didn't make much sense to me to do it that way instead of the way I outlined since we don't really have a big target man.

[Tomaszk]

Everton have signed Onana.

Onana, Coady and Tarkowski in their 352 sat as deep as they can. We're going to lose again

Hope Critchley can take charge away from Gerrard now. Get a proper 4231 in there. I don't even like the formation but just like last season when Luiz was left in the middle of the pitch on his own, Kamara had that treat on Saturday. We will lose every game setting up like that.

[duke313]

9 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

It didn't though!  Dammit Stevie.

He won the league when Celtic imploded.

People keep saying this like it’s a fact. Rangers won the league and did so without losing a match.

Edited August 9, 2022 by duke313

[daft]

9 minutes ago, PeterSw said:

This is what baffled me. If you are insistent on width and getting crosses into the box, then surely they need to be low balls for Ings/Watkins or the other forwards coming into the box. The only only way we would of had any success with the high crosses was that maybe the forwards could get to the second ball but even that was a stretch.

Indeed. And I'd rather have our wide players try and cut in to fire across low balls into the box forcing their defenders to clear from the ground instead of nodding balls away in a very controlled manner like they did now. 

We won about the same amount of aerial duels as them, but I think their physicality and height made the few offensive attempts we won powerless and easily dismissed by their defense. 

[Tomaszk]

Just now, duke313 said:

People keep saying this like it’s a fact. Ranger won the league and did so without losing a match.

Aside from Celtic, other Premiership clubs have about 1/20th of Rangers' budget.

It's not as impressive as doing it a league where there's a more level playing field. Like League 1 or 2.

[duke313]

Just now, Tomaszk said:

Aside from Celtic, other Premiership clubs have about 1/20th of Rangers' budget.

It's not as impressive as doing it a league where there's a more level playing field. Like League 1 or 2.

It’s so easy to win the league in Scotland unbeaten, that’s it’s been done a whole three times before Gerrard did it, two of which was over 100 years ago.

Anyway, my point was his tactics in Scotland don’t work here, and he’s too thick to realise it.

[daft]

Just now, Tomaszk said:

Aside from Celtic, other Premiership clubs have about 1/20th of Rangers' budget.

It's not as impressive as doing it a league where there's a more level playing field. Like League 1 or 2.

True, but I also think people are too dismissive in regards to what it takes to win the league even then. You can't just waltz in and walk it, even if your rival **** up badly as well you still have professionally run teams snapping at your heels.

Yeah, it's weak league and doesn't really say much, but you still need to do what it takes to win it with Celtic and Rangers. 

[Tomaszk]

3 minutes ago, duke313 said:

It’s so easy to win the league in Scotland unbeaten, that’s it’s been done a whole three times before Gerrard did it, two of which was over 100 years ago.

Anyway, my point was his tactics in Scotland don’t work here, and he’s too thick to realise it.

We can agree on this then.

3 minutes ago, daft said:

Yeah, it's weak league and doesn't really say much, but you still need to do what it takes to win it with Celtic and Rangers. 

You do absolutely. It helps when the other major side doesn't show up.

[rodders0223]

Souness won about 28 titles in a row in Scotland and I wouldn't want him as manager.

 

Actually I'd prefer Souness he's seem more progressive tbfh.

[PeterSw]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

Everton have signed Onana.

Onana, Coady and Tarkowski in their 352 sat as deep as they can. We're going to lose again

Hope Critchley can take charge away from Gerrard now. Get a proper 4231 in there. I don't even like the formation but just like last season when Luiz was left in the middle of the pitch on his own, Kamara had that treat on Saturday. We will lose every game setting up like that.

Early prediction... 40 floated cross attempts, 1 successful. Post match chat from SG "We didn't cross well enough"