Team shape, tactics and personnel

[onmeedson]

Totally overrated squad, how many 70 min players do we have, where is the fighting spirit, where is the press. Most of the players roll over, heads on the floor as soon as an athletic opposition come near them. Gerrard is to blame for the system and substitutions but once they go out on the park they should all put a shift in. We are on the floor but the 12th man is no where to be seen when they are needed, we can all throw stone's and blame but the villa need a response from the players not a 90 minute sulk.

[nepal_villan]

29 minutes ago, Tayls said:

Seen a fair bit of this lately, it’s a good squad that we have, but there are certainly a handful of first team players who simply are not good enough for the goals that have been set. 

Fair enough if you mean the goal to finish in Europe.  They certainly are good enough to beat Bournemouth!  Pretty much all our first team players would be attractive to any team outside the Top 6 clubs.  

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, onmeedson said:

Totally overrated squad, how many 70 min players do we have, where is the fighting spirit, where is the press. Most of the players roll over, heads on the floor as soon as an athletic opposition come near them. Gerrard is to blame for the system and substitutions but once they go out on the park they should all put a shift in. We are on the floor but the 12th man is no where to be seen when they are needed, we can all throw stone's and blame but the villa need a response from the players not a 90 minute sulk.

The players aren't going to react to a system that don't suit and don't work, from a manager who has no answers. Unfortunately, this is how it is, how it is with players, look at Tottenham, before Conte arrived.

[Tom13]

This reply made me laugh

[Tayls]

18 minutes ago, onmeedson said:

Totally overrated squad, how many 70 min players do we have, where is the fighting spirit, where is the press. Most of the players roll over, heads on the floor as soon as an athletic opposition come near them. Gerrard is to blame for the system and substitutions but once they go out on the park they should all put a shift in. We are on the floor but the 12th man is no where to be seen when they are needed, we can all throw stone's and blame but the villa need a response from the players not a 90 minute sulk.

It’s a really bad concoction of negative traits that we have at the club currently - one being the talent of the some of the playing staff, the second being the very very limited manager who doesn’t know what he is doing and the same can be said for others within our coaching setup, and the third is the shocking mentality that courses through the minds of all those that make it onto the pitch. Add all of that together and you get what we are witnessing weekly at the moment. 

[onmeedson]

37 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

The players aren't going to react to a system that don't suit and don't work, from a manager who has no answers. Unfortunately, this is how it is, how it is with players, look at Tottenham, before Conte arrived.

Maybe the tottenham players were just better players that could react to what was being asked of them and fitter to last more than 70 mins. When you let players run the club only mayhem rules as they all want different things .

[wilko154]

1 hour ago, Nabby said:

Whose fault is it that Digne defending at times is horrific ..Digne or the manager who wanted him and had us pay 25mil plus and high wages ..

Ings has scored every team he has been at and Watkins has got into double figures in the league , how many chances are they missing ? Pace ..Bailey who rarely plays as the manager prefers to have his full backs create the width. Who can stay on ball like Jack ? I assume that what was what he brought in Coutinho to do ..

Digne is actually a good player, but in this formation we are asking him to do too much.

We are essentially playing him as a full back, a wing back and a winger. If you watch him in the game he's pushed up past the midfield whenever we are in possession, then when we inevitably lose it due to being incapable of playing through the midfield, Digne is scrambling to get back and miles out of position. By the end of the game he's knackered and looks weak. Cash has the exact same problem and has suffered from cramp a few times due to it.

If we switch to a 4-3-3 with wingers then the full backs can concentrate primarily on defending, but one can push forward when required to cross from deep or overlap the winger. Both Cash and Digne would be the perfect full backs to do this.

It's a major problem for us right now, and I just can't understand why Gerrard can't see it.

[MotoMkali]

2 hours ago, Tayls said:

Well there’s four right there. Ings and Watkins are two others. Probably more Watkins for me though. 

They are appropriate bench players. And we did have appropriate starters. But Gerrard doesn't play them. 

Only like Salah, Son, Kane and Vardy have scored more goals in the prem than Watkins over the last 2 seasons. 

[Reivax_Villa]

Rumours circulating that we have sacked 9 members of the back room staff..

[Monkeypuzzle]

                   Watkins

Coutinho   Buendia   Bailey

             Kamara   Luiz

Digne   Mings   Carlos   Cash

                   Martinez

Olsen, Young, Konsa, Chambers, Augustinsson, Iroegbunam, McGinn, Ramsey, Ings

 

That is a strong first eleven and a stronger bench than most teams in the Premier League or even in Europe!

That is a team far better than many in the Champions League!

That is not a team with any glaring weaknesses or areas lacking in depth!

That is the best squad I can remember in over thirty years at Villa Park!

That is a team with eleven international players in the starting eleven (many for top tier countries) and nine internationals on the bench (including youth level as international level)!

 

That is NOT a team that should be playing as crap as they have been for so long now!

The problem is not on the pitch, it's in the dug out!

Edited August 29, 2022 by Monkeypuzzle

[VillaParkAvenue]

5 hours ago, onmeedson said:

Totally overrated squad, how many 70 min players do we have, where is the fighting spirit, where is the press. Most of the players roll over, heads on the floor as soon as an athletic opposition come near them. Gerrard is to blame for the system and substitutions but once they go out on the park they should all put a shift in. We are on the floor but the 12th man is no where to be seen when they are needed, we can all throw stone's and blame but the villa need a response from the players not a 90 minute sulk.

They don’t press high because they’re told not to.

[Zatman]

5 hours ago, onmeedson said:

Totally overrated squad, how many 70 min players do we have, where is the fighting spirit, where is the press. Most of the players roll over, heads on the floor as soon as an athletic opposition come near them. Gerrard is to blame for the system and substitutions but once they go out on the park they should all put a shift in. We are on the floor but the 12th man is no where to be seen when they are needed, we can all throw stone's and blame but the villa need a response from the players not a 90 minute sulk.

This manager doesn't like pressing hence the lack of press. We have Watkins and Buendia excellent pressers nullified because Coutinho physically cant press

[onmeedson]

No one said the manager was blameless but on the park you as a player have to give your all and that includes tracking your player, putting a shift in and coming off exhausted. We do not have that spirit in this group and it is just not a few players, the agenda against the manager totally lets these players of the hook and whoever is the next manager is stuck with the same problem. The game has changed and its about powerful runners now not stargazers and pretty players for 50 minutes and believing smith could have done a better job.

[MentalM]

We have so many ways to have a decent structure that doesnt let our midfield get picked apart every game. Literally so many differentr ways to play it its horrible that we are insisting on a system that pushes two of our CMs out towards the wing so Kamara is left alone vs either 2, 3 or 4 opponents.

Martinez, Cash, Chambers/Konsa, Mings, Digne in the back, then we can either play 4231-433-442-4411. And all we have to do is change the central midfield structure

Kamara - Luiz
Buendia - Coutinho - Bailey
Watkins

Nakamba - Kamara
Bailey - Ings - Ramsey
Watkins

Nakamba - Kamara - Mcginn
Buendia - Watkins - Bailey/Ramsey

 

Buendia - Luiz - Kamara - Bailey/Ramsey
Ings - Watkins

Literally EVERYTHING makes sense, except putting Mcginn and Ramsey as defacto wingbacks, and add in that Buendia/Coutinho also tries to play wingbacks so we are usually have 3 players take up the same bloody space.

[sparrow1988]

14 hours ago, TRO said:

Not as a balance......who can defend?......who can score?.....who can hold a midfield together?.....who can head the ball, with any competence?.....who has pace?.....who can stay on the ball with the ability of Jack?

Maybe you need to think again.

Its probably the most expensive squad, we have had for years, thats a difference.....They flatter to deceive.

 

who can defend? - the same defence (minus Targett) that performed well under Smith (I think 15?? clean sheets in one season. Only bettered by Man City in that season).

who can score? - Ollie broke double figures twice. Ings had a 22 goal season a couple of seasons back.

who can hold a midfield together? - no one in this crazy system. The fact that we set up expecting one player to hold the midfield together is the definition of insanity. Look at how improved the midfield was on Sunday for the time that Luiz was on the pitch - worlds apart from the other games this season.

who can head the ball, with any competence? - Mings maybe. However, it is one attribute of about 100 which make up the game.

who has pace? - Bailey, Ramsey, Watkins is rapid - at least without the ball, Cash, Konsa and Mings can move when they have to.

who can stay on the ball with the ability of Jack? - about 3 players in world football.

 

There are issues in the squad, but it's not a bad squad. There isn't any doubt about that - it's a mid-table squad. However, the much more glaring issue is the manager. He may go on to become a good manager, although I highly doubt it. He sets up his team so that there is nobody covering the midfield. We are more susceptible to counter attacks that Lampard's Chelsea, and that is saying something. Furthermore, we have no creativity whatsoever going forward, no plan of how to get the ball into the danger areas. We have entered the oppositions defensive third more times this season than any other team apart from Man City and Liverpool, yet we rarely look like scoring. What was Gerrard's response as to why we couldn't break West Ham down at the weekend? "We were lacking that creative spark". Does he not think that he is responsible to create an attacking system which enables players to create chances or is it just a case of the players need to figure it out for themselves?

He is tactically out of his depth in the PL, and probably would be in the championship to be honest. Add to that his apalling man management skills, and we have one of the worst managers we have had in a long time. When he leaves, he'll get a job somewhere else of course, but for one reason and one reason only - he is Steven Gerrard. It won't be based on ability, just reputation.

[Don_Simon]

11 hours ago, Monkeypuzzle said:

                   Watkins

Coutinho   Buendia   Bailey

             Kamara   Luiz

Digne   Mings   Carlos   Cash

                   Martinez

Olsen, Young, Konsa, Chambers, Augustinsson, Iroegbunam, McGinn, Ramsey, Ings

 

That is a strong first eleven and a stronger bench than most teams in the Premier League or even in Europe!

That is a team far better than many in the Champions League!

That is not a team with any glaring weaknesses or areas lacking in depth!

That is the best squad I can remember in over thirty years at Villa Park!

That is a team with eleven international players in the starting eleven (many for top tier countries) and nine internationals on the bench (including youth level as international level)!

 

That is NOT a team that should be playing as crap as they have been for so long now!

The problem is not on the pitch, it's in the dug out!

That is absolutely my First XI. I cannot comprehend how Gerrard doesn't see this.

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

who can defend? - the same defence (minus Targett) that performed well under Smith (I think 15?? clean sheets in one season. Only bettered by Man City in that season).

who can score? - Ollie broke double figures twice. Ings had a 22 goal season a couple of seasons back.

who can hold a midfield together? - no one in this crazy system. The fact that we set up expecting one player to hold the midfield together is the definition of insanity. Look at how improved the midfield was on Sunday for the time that Luiz was on the pitch - worlds apart from the other games this season.

who can head the ball, with any competence? - Mings maybe. However, it is one attribute of about 100 which make up the game.

who has pace? - Bailey, Ramsey, Watkins is rapid - at least without the ball, Cash, Konsa and Mings can move when they have to.

who can stay on the ball with the ability of Jack? - about 3 players in world football.

 

There are issues in the squad, but it's not a bad squad. There isn't any doubt about that - it's a mid-table squad. However, the much more glaring issue is the manager. He may go on to become a good manager, although I highly doubt it. He sets up his team so that there is nobody covering the midfield. We are more susceptible to counter attacks that Lampard's Chelsea, and that is saying something. Furthermore, we have no creativity whatsoever going forward, no plan of how to get the ball into the danger areas. We have entered the oppositions defensive third more times this season than any other team apart from Man City and Liverpool, yet we rarely look like scoring. What was Gerrard's response as to why we couldn't break West Ham down at the weekend? "We were lacking that creative spark". Does he not think that he is responsible to create an attacking system which enables players to create chances or is it just a case of the players need to figure it out for themselves?

He is tactically out of his depth in the PL, and probably would be in the championship to be honest. Add to that his apalling man management skills, and we have one of the worst managers we have had in a long time. When he leaves, he'll get a job somewhere else of course, but for one reason and one reason only - he is Steven Gerrard. It won't be based on ability, just reputation.

So why did Conte, go in to Spurs and threaten to go, because of a lack of funds, and when he got them, the tide turned.

Managers, can only do so much....but its convenient on the back of such limited behind the scenes information, to just blame them......I seem to remember, my stance being used for the previous manager, how times change.

I hear noises saying we have spent a lot......not this summer, we haven't, that is a false narrative....we have spent relatively, very little, so far, in comparison, with the rest.

Did Kamara come in knowing he was going to be the only first team signing, with Carlos?

Its a shitshow right now, but its all aimed at one man.....and I think that is unfair.

[Sulberto21]

15 hours ago, onmeedson said:

Totally overrated squad, how many 70 min players do we have, where is the fighting spirit, where is the press. Most of the players roll over, heads on the floor as soon as an athletic opposition come near them. Gerrard is to blame for the system and substitutions but once they go out on the park they should all put a shift in. We are on the floor but the 12th man is no where to be seen when they are needed, we can all throw stone's and blame but the villa need a response from the players not a 90 minute sulk.

 

14 hours ago, Tom13 said:

This reply made me laugh

@onmeedson you’re asking about the press? It’s in the Lego aisle. 

Those average positions are because of the coaching and tactics. Players are struggling after 70 minutes because they have to do the jobs of two men. CM’s covering FB’s so who is covering the CM’s??
It’s ridiculous.

[StefanAVFC]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

So why did Conte, go in to Spurs and threaten to go, because of a lack of funds, and when he got them, the tide turned.

Managers, can only do so much....but its convenient on the back of such limited behind the scenes information, to just blame them......I seem to remember, my stance being used for the previous manager, how times change.

I hear noises saying we have spent a lot......not this summer, we haven't, that is a false narrative....we have spent relatively, very little, so far, in comparison, with the rest.

Did Kamara come in knowing he was going to be the only first team signing, with Carlos?

Its a shitshow right now, but its all aimed at one man.....and I think that is unfair.

Conte immediately established a style when he arrived, used the players he had and added players who fit the style. 

Look at them.

Dier - laughing stock, now a key player IN HIS SYSTEM.

Players like Doherty were barely playing now heavily involved.

This is nothing to do with not being backed and 100% down to not having any identity and style other than sticking his favourites on the pitch and hoping one of them does something magical.

This is obvious from the average positions, complete lack of ideas both positionally and creatively, and the chopping and changing EVERY week.

The players could obviously be doing more, reflective of their quality (multiple international players don't become bad players overnight) but it's OBVIOUS from watching what's happening on the pitch that the issue is with the tactics (lack of) and coaching (lack of)

I'm not expecting us to be top 6 but the players we have are better than meekly losing 2-0 to one of the worst PL teams I've ever seen without creating a chance.

[StefanAVFC]

I can think of areas we need improvement obviously, but all of them would basically mean Gerrard saying 'I was wrong' about his very recent decisions.

I'd replace McGinn, buy another starting CB to partner Mings and a winger.

Go 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1

Martinez, Cash, New CB, Mings, Digne, New winger/Buendia, Kamara, new CM, Bailey, Watkins, Ings

OR

Martinez, Cash, New CB, Mings, Digne, New winger, Kamara, new CM, Bailey, Buendia, Watkins/Ings

With a new CB we could also play a really good 3-5-2.

It's really not hard stuff.