Team shape, tactics and personnel

[MWARLEY2]

2 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Why Steven Gerrard is already under pressure at Aston Villa

With a lack consistency over team selection and identity, his position at the club is under scrutiny

By John Percy 29 August 2022 • 2:26pm

Steven Gerrard has been operating at the sharp end of English football for long enough to know that patience is never in plentiful supply, but even he might be surprised at how quickly his position at Aston Villa has become so precarious.

It is still not quite 300 days since Gerrard was unveiled at Villa Park to great fanfare, with the club hailing his arrival as a significant coup and that he was the man to realise what chief executive Christian Purslow called their "ambitious plans" under co-owners Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens.

That optimism feels a long time ago now. While Gerrard is not in any imminent danger of being dismissed, despite his side's wretched start to the new season, he will know better than anyone that a manager whose side have just been jeered off at home by their own fans, just four games into a new campaign, does not have time on his side.

That is doubly true when he is being unfavourably compared to a new wave of coaches - including Graham Potter, the popular choice to replace him among a section of supporters - who do not boast Gerrard's stellar playing CV but appear to have a more definable style which is yielding real rewards.

The statistics around Villa are certainly damning. They have lost three of their four Premier League matches this season, and face Arsenal and Manchester City next, having failed to keep a clean sheet in nine league games. 

Their dire run stretches back into last season, with only three victories since March 13, two of which came against relegated Norwich and Burnley. The record of Dean Smith, who was sacked in November after five successive defeats, is currently better than his replacement over the last 15 matches.

More worryingly, there seems to be no consistency over tactics and team selection, and the ‘identity’ Gerrard seeks is non-existent at the moment.

Under Smith, Villa played with wingers and created more chances, but were arguably more open at the back. Gerrard’s Villa may be more difficult to beat but the football can be slow, allowing opponents to defend narrow as much of the play is in the middle.

Pre-season is supposed to be used as a time for a coach to work out their best team, but too much of the team selection at Villa seems reactionary and impulsive. 

Danny Ings produced a clinical finish against Everton and was dropped the next weekend for the game at Crystal Palace. Ollie Watkins, Leon Bailey, Ezri Konsa, Calum Chambers and Emiliano Buendia have all been in and out at some stage of this season.

The players Gerrard would expect to rely on are underperforming. John McGinn was named as captain in pre-season, as a replacement for Tyrone Mings, but he has struggled for months. He is far removed from the tigerish, driving midfielder who shines for the Scotland national team. Perhaps McGinn is lost in a system that is not working.

Philippe Coutinho, meanwhile, appears to be a vanity project going horribly wrong. He has just one goal and no assists in his last 16 games and even towards the end of last season, there was little in his performances to suggest that he warranted a permanent move at such vast expense. 

This season the image of a frustrated Emiliano Buendia jogging up and down the touchline as a substitute has become intrinsically linked to the malaise.

Ross Barkley was a similar case to Coutinho two seasons ago, starting well and ending poorly, and there was never a chance of him joining from Chelsea.

Off the field, there also appear to be issues. While Mings accepted the decision on the captaincy, the subsequent comments made by Gerrard about the England defender after the Bournemouth defeat on the opening day of the season struck an odd tone and generated unnecessary attention.

Bailey’s father and agent, Craig Butler, was critical of Gerrard at the weekend over his son’s demotion to the bench. He also warned that Bailey “didn’t go to England for this".

Fringe players have been instructed to train in a special group, while there is confusion among some in the squad over the continued exclusion of French midfielder Morgan Sanson.

The major concern over Gerrard, so far, is the lack of any noticeable improvement. Does he know his best team? Does he trust the players enough? Just what does he want this team to be?

There is now expected to be a final flurry in the transfer window, with more players both coming in and going out. Villa acted ruthlessly and quickly in the summer to bring in Diego Carlos and Boubacar Kamara, but time is now ticking away.

The next few days could either make or break the manager, ahead of the international break. There is no immediate desire to sack Gerrard, who deserves more time to show that he is the man to engineer a revival, but the trip to Leicester and home game against Southampton appear crucial.

More and more of the media are now picking his plans and lack of identity apart  . And they are seeing the exact same things as us. 

Watching Stephen **** Warnock this morning showing simply and easily why his system is flawed and not disagreeing with a single thing. 

I think he found a system that sort of mirrored Liverpools and was able to implement it at Rangers with Tavernier being brilliant in Scotland.  But that was against far inferior opposition and coaches. 

Whether that was Beales system or his is up for debate. 

What isnt up for debate is that it doesnt work with Cash and Digne. And that the opposition quality easily negates it. 

Apart from the very very best teams if you want your backs up the pitch you need to play them as wingbacks. 

Everyone can see it. But Gerrard seems to be trodding the same path every game whether playing 1 or 2 up top.  There is too much pressure for our midfield to cover the fullbacks . And that those fullbacks cannot consistently deliver the quality once they do get in position. 

Its easy to set up against and for alot of teams that are coached well it is easy to win against. 

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

17 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

 while there is confusion among some in the squad over the continued exclusion of French midfielder Morgan Sanson.

This caught me off guard, well maybe he isn't a prick then!

As attitude is all I could surmise after him being excluded ( By both managers to an extent to be fair )

Edited August 29, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[AvonVillain]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

This caught me off guard, well maybe he isn't a prick then!

Yeah that's quite a revealing thing to say as it goes. Interesting. Maybe it is as simple as the players just not liking him.

[Marka Ragnos]

Question: Why aren't we using more cut-backs instead of lobbed, wasteful crosses? Also, who should be doing what on the pitch to bring the ball forward down the centre? Who is failing to find central spaces near the goal? Not being sarcastic -- genuine question. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Marka Ragnos

[DJBOB]

26 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Question: Why aren't we using more cut-backs instead of lobbed, wasteful crosses? Also, who should be doing what on the pitch to bring the ball forward down the centre? Who is failing to find central spaces near the goal? Not being sarcastic -- genuine question. 

 

The direction (down the flanks or center) and how to cross (lobbed or cut backs) are both misleading in terms of our attack.

Because our passing is soooooooo slow, it is pushed down to our uncreative fullbacks in the flanks and not the middle because there are a solid 2 banks of 4 if not both opposing strikers sitting in front of our midfield line. That makes it difficult to attack whether through the flanks, down the center, lobbed crosses, and/or cutbacks. There's just too many bodies in the way.

Villa are afraid of the press and have no clue tactically how to pull the defense out of shape, especially the opposing midfield line. If you can pull them out of their shape both in their lines and in their width, then you can find space down the middle and for cutbacks.

But whether through instruction, lack of tactical application, or just not intelligent enough players (I don't believe this one), Villa have no idea how to break teams down. Instead of inviting the press to bring teams out of shape, the players panic the second they are pressed and pass it backwards to the CB's to recycle and eventually get out to Cash or Digne for a shit ball.

It is no surprise that Buendia and Bailey, and on the very odd occasion but mostly infrequently, Coutinho - seem to be the only ones who understand this concept. Buendia will often linger on the ball, which can cause fans some frustration if he loses it, but needs to do so in order to attract the opposing players to him and bring them out of shape. Same with Bailey, who while occasionally losing the ball, will go on mazy runs to achieve the same goal - bring the defense out of their shape. That is why the midfield looked better with Luiz - who may not always play the most incisive ball and can frustrate when dawdling on the ball - but can attract pressure and then play out of it. These are all necessary components of bringing the defense out of their shape.

It is beating a dead horse, but McGinn and Ramsay can not play together. They are the same advanced midfielder role and neither are particularly blessed with the ability to draw defenders to them and then play an incisive pass. They are both wrecking balls of sorts, able to run at players, but unable to bring players towards them and then play an accurate pass consistently.

Edited August 29, 2022 by DJBOB

[MWARLEY2]

If we have to play McGinn then play him here

                            Watkins

MCGinn              Buendia          Bailey

               Kamara               Luiz

Digne        Mings            Chambers       Cash

It is where he is at his strongest using his devent left peg . 

 

[Marka Ragnos]

6 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

 

The direction (down the flanks or center) and how to cross (lobbed or cut backs) are both misleading in terms of our attack.

Because our passing is soooooooo slow, it is pushed down to our uncreative fullbacks in the flanks and not the middle because there are a solid 2 banks of 4 if not both opposing strikers sitting in front of our midfield line. That makes it difficult to attack whether through the flanks, down the center, lobbed crosses, and/or cutbacks. There's just too many bodies in the way.

Villa are afraid of the press and have no clue tactically how to pull the defense out of shape, especially the opposing midfield line. If you can pull them out of their shape both in their lines and in their width, then you can find space down the middle and for cutbacks.

But whether through instruction, lack of tactical application, or just not intelligent enough players (I don't believe this one), Villa have no idea how to break teams down. Instead of inviting the press to bring teams out of shape, the players panic the second they are pressed and pass it backwards to the CB's to recycle and eventually get out to Cash or Digne for a shit ball.

Damn, this is so helpful. I've learned much from your post. Thank you! Another annoying question or two: Are Kamara and Luiz able get on the ball more and draw our opponents' midfields out on attack and out of position? Don't they and the centre-halfs set the passing tempo, or what are some other things we could do to pull apart defenses? 

[DJBOB]

14 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Damn, this is so helpful. I've learned much from your post. Thank you! Another annoying question or two: Are Kamara and Luiz able get on the ball more and draw our opponents' midfields out on attack and out of position? Don't they and the centre-halfs set the passing tempo, or what are some other things we could do to pull apart defenses? 

Playing together - they can as they have both have the balanced abilities to play defensively (Kamara more than Luiz), but can still play passes through the lines (Nakamba can not). But that is dependent on the rest of the team. Much of attacking football, tactically, is to create little pockets where you outnumber or isolate defenders. That can be 2v1 or 3v2 overloads on the flanks or getting a 2v2 with your strikers against their CB's or even having your creative wingers go 1v1 on the opposing fullback and not letting them get doubled up.

Dean Smith liked to use the 433 and have his wingers directly attack the fullbacks, have the near side CM offer recycle support with the far side CM getting into the box and lastly have our own fullback overlap. This will naturally pull the defense wide and let attackers have those pockets of space to attack the ball for crosses. You saw this time and time again under Smith - look up under Championship run highlights or our good run of form early in the lockdown season. Post-Grealish, he never could get the right match together to replicate this, but he also had to deal with lots of injuries prior to his sacking, and - personally - toyed too much with the 352 that is a difficult formation to learn and play unless that is your main strategical approach (Teuchel and Conte). Smith also struggled to find the right tactical tweaks in-game to adjust for defenses who were prepared for this attack.

Gerrard's "idea" of this 4312 or even the insipid 4321 is to overload the middle, have plenty of midfield options to draw defenders in, and then play a late ball to either fullback to either shoot/cross for options in the middle. But this is far too predictable against most premier league defenses as well as not matching the players we have. Ings and Coutinho/Buendia might fit the profile of quick 1-2's but Ings and Coutinho are long in the tooth and neither are blessed with the athleticism or pace anymore in that critical 5-10 yard burst area. Watkins is not, nor will ever be, that player. Already mentioned McGinn and Ramsay not fitting the profile and neither Digne nor Cash can operate as full-time wingbacks.

Square peg, round hole, no plan B, and seemingly no recognition that it has failed for 30 some games now.

Edited August 29, 2022 by DJBOB

[TomC]

1 hour ago, messi11 said:

Who wants Gerrard to stay:
Danny Ings

Do you really think Ings wants him to stay? Watkins gets more time than him even though he has played better for most of the last year, and SG benched him the game after he scored a goal. Not to mention that he isn't getting the kind of service that he thrives on. I doubt he's the biggest fan.

 

[DaveAV1]

5 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Neil Critchley is an experienced manager. 

I guess so but he’s only been here 5 minutes himself. A real hammering before we can get our next choice could force our hand and under those circumstances it could happen. 

[DJBOB]

2 minutes ago, messi11 said:

Well Ings and Watkins doesn't work (We all knew this under Dean Smith!) Yet Gerrard continues to play it. Ings get picked above Bailey and Buendia. So yeah I think Ings is loving life under Gerrard.
 

Ings and Watkins can work but requires Gerrard's worst nightmare.

Wingers playing on the wing.

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

McGinn doesn’t exactly look happy with the situation he’s ended up in, suddenly despised by most fans. I bet he much preferred things the way they were before SG.

As captain he's probably got to turn up at this year's Christmas doo in a suit instead of a turkey outfit. That's gonna a piss off anyone. 

[Mantis]

1 minute ago, DJBOB said:

Ings and Watkins can work but requires Gerrard's worst nightmare.

Wingers playing on the wing.

No Gerrard's worst nightmare is Buendia in the starting 11 and McGinn on the bench.

[VillaParkAvenue]

6 minutes ago, messi11 said:

Well Ings and Watkins doesn't work (We all knew this under Dean Smith!) Yet Gerrard continues to play it. Ings get picked above Bailey and Buendia. So yeah I think Ings is loving life under Gerrard.
 

Ings and Watkins may not work, but they’ve still been our only way of winning games under 2022.

[sidcow]

5 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said:

“There 
We
Are 
Then”

???

Watch this space. 

Stated HERE first. 

Any old bollox will do. People will believe anything followed by a catchphrase. 

[Marka Ragnos]

56 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

Playing together - they can as they have both have the balanced abilities to play defensively (Kamara more than Luiz), but can still play passes through the lines (Nakamba can not). But that is dependent on the rest of the team. Much of attacking football, tactically, is to create little pockets where you outnumber or isolate defenders. That can be 2v1 or 3v2 overloads on the flanks or getting a 2v2 with your strikers against their CB's or even having your creative wingers go 1v1 on the opposing fullback and not letting them get doubled up.

Dean Smith liked to use the 433 and have his wingers directly attack the fullbacks, have the near side CM offer recycle support with the far side CM getting into the box and lastly have our own fullback overlap. This will naturally pull the defense wide and let attackers have those pockets of space to attack the ball for crosses. You saw this time and time again under Smith - look up under Championship run highlights or our good run of form early in the lockdown season. Post-Grealish, he never could get the right match together to replicate this, but he also had to deal with lots of injuries prior to his sacking, and - personally - toyed too much with the 352 that is a difficult formation to learn and play unless that is your main strategical approach (Teuchel and Conte). Smith also struggled to find the right tactical tweaks in-game to adjust for defenses who were prepared for this attack.

Gerrard's "idea" of this 4312 or even the insipid 4321 is to overload the middle, have plenty of midfield options to draw defenders in, and then play a late ball to either fullback to either shoot/cross for options in the middle. But this is far too predictable against most premier league defenses as well as not matching the players we have. Ings and Coutinho/Buendia might fit the profile of quick 1-2's but Ings and Coutinho are long in the tooth and neither are blessed with the athleticism or pace anymore in that critical 5-10 yard burst area. Watkins is not, nor will ever be, that player. Already mentioned McGinn and Ramsay not fitting the profile and neither Digne nor Cash can operate as full-time wingbacks.

Square peg, round hole, no plan B, and seemingly no recognition that it has failed for 30 some games now.

This is a truly absorbing post. Interesting to hear about how Dean struggles with the transition to a post-Grealish universe, and I'd be stupid if I didn't feel pretty horrified at Gerrard's approach, as you describe it, with the current players. 

Last question: Are you available as Chief Villa Tactician?

[daft]

1 hour ago, DJBOB said:

 

The direction (down the flanks or center) and how to cross (lobbed or cut backs) are both misleading in terms of our attack.

Because our passing is soooooooo slow, it is pushed down to our uncreative fullbacks in the flanks and not the middle because there are a solid 2 banks of 4 if not both opposing strikers sitting in front of our midfield line. That makes it difficult to attack whether through the flanks, down the center, lobbed crosses, and/or cutbacks. There's just too many bodies in the way.

Villa are afraid of the press and have no clue tactically how to pull the defense out of shape, especially the opposing midfield line. If you can pull them out of their shape both in their lines and in their width, then you can find space down the middle and for cutbacks.

But whether through instruction, lack of tactical application, or just not intelligent enough players (I don't believe this one), Villa have no idea how to break teams down. Instead of inviting the press to bring teams out of shape, the players panic the second they are pressed and pass it backwards to the CB's to recycle and eventually get out to Cash or Digne for a shit ball.

It is no surprise that Buendia and Bailey, and on the very odd occasion but mostly infrequently, Coutinho - seem to be the only ones who understand this concept. Buendia will often linger on the ball, which can cause fans some frustration if he loses it, but needs to do so in order to attract the opposing players to him and bring them out of shape. Same with Bailey, who while occasionally losing the ball, will go on mazy runs to achieve the same goal - bring the defense out of their shape. That is why the midfield looked better with Luiz - who may not always play the most incisive ball and can frustrate when dawdling on the ball - but can attract pressure and then play out of it. These are all necessary components of bringing the defense out of their shape.

It is beating a dead horse, but McGinn and Ramsay can not play together. They are the same advanced midfielder role and neither are particularly blessed with the ability to draw defenders to them and then play an incisive pass. They are both wrecking balls of sorts, able to run at players, but unable to bring players towards them and then play an accurate pass consistently.

This does my head in when I watch is play! We can't do it using the ball, either a a team or through individual brilliance, and we have few players if any that can drag defenders around. I think Couts showed flashes agains WHyU when he suddenly found some space, but not nearly enough. We very much need to try something els.e

[VillaParkAvenue]

1 hour ago, DJBOB said:

 

The direction (down the flanks or center) and how to cross (lobbed or cut backs) are both misleading in terms of our attack.

Because our passing is soooooooo slow, it is pushed down to our uncreative fullbacks in the flanks and not the middle because there are a solid 2 banks of 4 if not both opposing strikers sitting in front of our midfield line. That makes it difficult to attack whether through the flanks, down the center, lobbed crosses, and/or cutbacks. There's just too many bodies in the way.

Villa are afraid of the press and have no clue tactically how to pull the defense out of shape, especially the opposing midfield line. If you can pull them out of their shape both in their lines and in their width, then you can find space down the middle and for cutbacks.

But whether through instruction, lack of tactical application, or just not intelligent enough players (I don't believe this one), Villa have no idea how to break teams down. Instead of inviting the press to bring teams out of shape, the players panic the second they are pressed and pass it backwards to the CB's to recycle and eventually get out to Cash or Digne for a shit ball.

It is no surprise that Buendia and Bailey, and on the very odd occasion but mostly infrequently, Coutinho - seem to be the only ones who understand this concept. Buendia will often linger on the ball, which can cause fans some frustration if he loses it, but needs to do so in order to attract the opposing players to him and bring them out of shape. Same with Bailey, who while occasionally losing the ball, will go on mazy runs to achieve the same goal - bring the defense out of their shape. That is why the midfield looked better with Luiz - who may not always play the most incisive ball and can frustrate when dawdling on the ball - but can attract pressure and then play out of it. These are all necessary components of bringing the defense out of their shape.

It is beating a dead horse, but McGinn and Ramsay can not play together. They are the same advanced midfielder role and neither are particularly blessed with the ability to draw defenders to them and then play an incisive pass. They are both wrecking balls of sorts, able to run at players, but unable to bring players towards them and then play an accurate pass consistently.

Good post. On a side note there’s also the issue of the nervous crowd — if/when Villa ever do invite the press the home crowd will invariably lose their shit and yell at the player to hoof it immediately. 

[a m ole]

can we get these emailed to Christian.Purslow@AstonVilla.co.uk? Spot on analysis mr Bob

2 hours ago, DJBOB said:

 

The direction (down the flanks or center) and how to cross (lobbed or cut backs) are both misleading in terms of our attack.

Because our passing is soooooooo slow, it is pushed down to our uncreative fullbacks in the flanks and not the middle because there are a solid 2 banks of 4 if not both opposing strikers sitting in front of our midfield line. That makes it difficult to attack whether through the flanks, down the center, lobbed crosses, and/or cutbacks. There's just too many bodies in the way.

Villa are afraid of the press and have no clue tactically how to pull the defense out of shape, especially the opposing midfield line. If you can pull them out of their shape both in their lines and in their width, then you can find space down the middle and for cutbacks.

But whether through instruction, lack of tactical application, or just not intelligent enough players (I don't believe this one), Villa have no idea how to break teams down. Instead of inviting the press to bring teams out of shape, the players panic the second they are pressed and pass it backwards to the CB's to recycle and eventually get out to Cash or Digne for a shit ball.

It is no surprise that Buendia and Bailey, and on the very odd occasion but mostly infrequently, Coutinho - seem to be the only ones who understand this concept. Buendia will often linger on the ball, which can cause fans some frustration if he loses it, but needs to do so in order to attract the opposing players to him and bring them out of shape. Same with Bailey, who while occasionally losing the ball, will go on mazy runs to achieve the same goal - bring the defense out of their shape. That is why the midfield looked better with Luiz - who may not always play the most incisive ball and can frustrate when dawdling on the ball - but can attract pressure and then play out of it. These are all necessary components of bringing the defense out of their shape.

It is beating a dead horse, but McGinn and Ramsay can not play together. They are the same advanced midfielder role and neither are particularly blessed with the ability to draw defenders to them and then play an incisive pass. They are both wrecking balls of sorts, able to run at players, but unable to bring players towards them and then play an accurate pass consistently.

1 hour ago, DJBOB said:

Playing together - they can as they have both have the balanced abilities to play defensively (Kamara more than Luiz), but can still play passes through the lines (Nakamba can not). But that is dependent on the rest of the team. Much of attacking football, tactically, is to create little pockets where you outnumber or isolate defenders. That can be 2v1 or 3v2 overloads on the flanks or getting a 2v2 with your strikers against their CB's or even having your creative wingers go 1v1 on the opposing fullback and not letting them get doubled up.

Dean Smith liked to use the 433 and have his wingers directly attack the fullbacks, have the near side CM offer recycle support with the far side CM getting into the box and lastly have our own fullback overlap. This will naturally pull the defense wide and let attackers have those pockets of space to attack the ball for crosses. You saw this time and time again under Smith - look up under Championship run highlights or our good run of form early in the lockdown season. Post-Grealish, he never could get the right match together to replicate this, but he also had to deal with lots of injuries prior to his sacking, and - personally - toyed too much with the 352 that is a difficult formation to learn and play unless that is your main strategical approach (Teuchel and Conte). Smith also struggled to find the right tactical tweaks in-game to adjust for defenses who were prepared for this attack.

Gerrard's "idea" of this 4312 or even the insipid 4321 is to overload the middle, have plenty of midfield options to draw defenders in, and then play a late ball to either fullback to either shoot/cross for options in the middle. But this is far too predictable against most premier league defenses as well as not matching the players we have. Ings and Coutinho/Buendia might fit the profile of quick 1-2's but Ings and Coutinho are long in the tooth and neither are blessed with the athleticism or pace anymore in that critical 5-10 yard burst area. Watkins is not, nor will ever be, that player. Already mentioned McGinn and Ramsay not fitting the profile and neither Digne nor Cash can operate as full-time wingbacks.

Square peg, round hole, no plan B, and seemingly no recognition that it has failed for 30 some games now.

[StanBalaban]