The Midfield Three

[KentVillan]

Not a fan of YouTube highlights videos as a way of judging a player (and the music on this one is awful) but anyone saying Douglas Luiz is lightweight surely has to say this video presents a completely different picture.

Also, as I keep saying, HE IS 22 YEARS OLD. He will develop into a more physical, more imposing, smarter player over time. There is no need to replace him. At most clubs he would still be an up and coming prospect. We are getting ahead of ourselves judging him here because he starts most games.

I do agree that we need another box-to-box player to challenge McGinn (maybe that's Sanson) and another "destroyer" DM to challenge Nakamba. I think Douglas Luiz and Ramsey will compete for the ball playing role.

Also 100% agree with others who are saying this isn't about picking a first choice midfield trio, but horses for courses - especially if we start competing in several competitions (and hopefully Europe).

Edited February 7, 2021 by KentVillan

[PaulC]

The midfield trio that went to Arsenal and destroyed them was Luiz, McGinn and Barkley, that is still my preferred trio. Totally different to the game yesterday. Nakamba offers a physical presence but its not in the league as a fooballer as Luiz. Just need Luiz and McGinn playing at that level again. Talk of Ramsey in the mix is very premature. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Not a fan of YouTube highlights videos as a way of judging a player (and the music on this one is awful) but anyone saying Douglas Luiz is lightweight surely has to say this video presents a completely different picture.

Also, as I keep saying, HE IS 22 YEARS OLD. He will develop into a more physical, more imposing, smarter player over time. There is no need to replace him. At most clubs he would still be an up and coming prospect. We are getting ahead of ourselves judging him here because he starts most games.

I do agree that we need another box-to-box player to challenge McGinn (maybe that's Sanson) and another "destroyer" DM to challenge Nakamba. I think Douglas Luiz and Ramsey will compete for the ball playing role.

Also 100% agree with others who are saying this isn't about picking a first choice midfield trio, but horses for courses - especially if we start competing in several competitions (and hopefully Europe).

My favorite part is the diving into the fan crowd and the passion.

Miss those screamers too!

Oh,  and Keinan Davis scores a goal here as well. lol

Edited February 7, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Kiwivillan]

4 hours ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Leeds and the first game against Southampton both of them destroyed us through the middle.

Leeds kept attacking Cash's flank the whole game. They scored 1 goal through middle when Barkley passed straight to Leeds player in their half 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

[saturdaygig]

2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Miss those screamers too!

Even when he's playing we miss those screamers 49 games out of 50. I'm not so sure about Dougie. He can play forward, but so often his only thought is play back. Even though we're so much better in attack than we are at getting the ball out of defence. I'm hoping Dean knows this and Morgan is our man.

[Mazrim]

Well we've gone from shitting ourselves that Man City might take Luiz back to writing him off?

He isnt perfect, but he's a class act and I'm a big fan. In the run in last season he was arguably the best defensive midfielder in the league and he's been sound this season up to a few tired looking performances recently. He's not alone there.

We have one of the best defensive records. To remove Luiz as a factor in that is not fair. He's still very young and not the finished article, nor should he be.

The midfield 3 shouldn't be set in stone though, definitely. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Mazrim

[Kiwivillan]

1 hour ago, saturdaygig said:

He can play forward, but so often his only thought is play back

Loads of our breaks on the counter against Newcastle were from Luiz forward balls

[paul514]

On 06/02/2021 at 20:45, Delphinho123 said:

I don’t know about you, but I feel this is a problem area for us at the moment and one that seems to have developed more as the season has gone on. I thought Luiz and McGinn started the season pretty well but both have tailed off in my opinion. 

One thing I’ve noticed in the last few matches is how easily teams are playing through us. I watched Barkley closely against West Ham and Arsenal and he literally jogs around, not tracking men and marking space. Could this be the reason it looks so unbalanced at the moment? Is Ross under instruction not to track back. 

I can’t quite put my finger on it but that area of the pitch seems a problem for us and I’m not sure who our best three are to start matches. 

Persoanlly, I’d like us to go with Luiz, McGinn and Sanson/Ramsey next match as I don’t think Barkley is up to it nor do I think he deserves a start. He seems to make us worse as a unit in there. 

Don’t really want to turn this into a Barkley criticism thread but interested to see what everyone thinks. 

We have a thread for Summer speculation but I’d put a big, strong defensive midfielder at the very top of the list. 

UTV.

It kind of should be a barkley criticism thread the formation we play is for the 10 to track and help in the press.

The other two are supposed to largely sit and fill in for the full back who has gone forward.

It should also be remembered that the ball is supposed to go quickly from the back to the front 3 or 4

[paul514]

6 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Not a fan of YouTube highlights videos as a way of judging a player (and the music on this one is awful) but anyone saying Douglas Luiz is lightweight surely has to say this video presents a completely different picture.

Also, as I keep saying, HE IS 22 YEARS OLD. He will develop into a more physical, more imposing, smarter player over time. There is no need to replace him. At most clubs he would still be an up and coming prospect. We are getting ahead of ourselves judging him here because he starts most games.

I do agree that we need another box-to-box player to challenge McGinn (maybe that's Sanson) and another "destroyer" DM to challenge Nakamba. I think Douglas Luiz and Ramsey will compete for the ball playing role.

Also 100% agree with others who are saying this isn't about picking a first choice midfield trio, but horses for courses - especially if we start competing in several competitions (and hopefully Europe).

Anyone who doesn't think he is the best central midfielder we have is on drugs.

[villalad21]

7 hours ago, Mazrim said:

Well we've gone from shitting ourselves that Man City might take Luiz back to writing him off?

He isnt perfect, but he's a class act and I'm a big fan. In the run in last season he was arguably the best defensive midfielder in the league and he's been sound this season up to a few tired looking performances recently. He's not alone there.

We have one of the best defensive records. To remove Luiz as a factor in that is not fair. He's still very young and not the finished article, nor should he be.

The midfield 3 shouldn't be set in stone though, definitely. 

I've hardly seen a midfield getting bypassed easier than ours in this league.

Our defensive record is mainly down to an excellent back 4 and a phenomenal keeper.

Also a big shout out to Ollie Watkins who help us defending from the front at times.

[Mazrim]

2 hours ago, villalad21 said:

I've hardly seen a midfield getting bypassed easier than ours in this league.

Nah. Not having that. Not saying it doesn't happen at times but saying we always get bypassed is nonsense. No back 5 would cope with that and put up the numbers we do if the midfield weren't doing their job, however good.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

10 hours ago, Mazrim said:

Well we've gone from shitting ourselves that Man City might take Luiz back to writing him off?

He isnt perfect, but he's a class act and I'm a big fan. In the run in last season he was arguably the best defensive midfielder in the league and he's been sound this season up to a few tired looking performances recently. He's not alone there.

We have one of the best defensive records. To remove Luiz as a factor in that is not fair. He's still very young and not the finished article, nor should he be.

The midfield 3 shouldn't be set in stone though, definitely. 

 

8 hours ago, paul514 said:

Anyone who doesn't think he is the best central midfielder we have is on drugs.

I haven't seen people write him off, simply people questioning if he is in fact, a DM, or a straight up CM.

I've said a few times I personally think he is a straight Box to Box CM.

A few have countered this by saying his stature will grow and he will get stronger in the position etc.

In the Video above, it points out that his Weakness is in Aerial duels, which is a big weakness for a DM imo.

He has the skills, shooting, range of passing etc however,

Also, even in Deanos own words he points our that Nakamba is more of a "DCM" than Luiz, in fact.

I think the debate is more about what the best balance for our midfield set up is, rather than writing Luiz off.

Edited February 8, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[gwi1890]

12 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

 

I haven't seen people write him off, simply people questioning if he is in fact, a DM, or a straight up CM.

I've said a few times I personally think he is a straight Box to Box CM.

A few have countered this by saying his stature will grow and he will get stronger in the position etc.

In the Video above, it points out that his Weakness is in Aerial duels, which is a big weakness for a DM imo.

He has the skills, shooting, range of passing etc however,

Also, even in Deanos own words he points our that Nakamba is more of a "DCM" than Luiz, in fact.

I think the debate is more about what the best balance for our midfield set up is, rather than writing Luiz off.

He’s the deepest midfielder, he picks the ball up in the pocket between the Central Defenders, he is a DCM not necessarily a destroyer that lays the ball off to other players and holds positions but a complete package that can defend and start attacks which is important in the modern game, Pirlo, Carrick , Xabi Alonso played in a deep defensive role, we  have 2 different options at DCM in Nakamba and Luiz and we have to get out of the mind set that Luiz has to be Makelele or Gattuso to be a DCM

[gilbertoAVFC]

16 hours ago, MaVilla said:

i was thinking about this in depth last night, and in review, i actually think the way our team needs to develop for the most improvement, is for Luiz & McGinn to be pushed out of the team by purchasing better players in their specific positions. (or at least buy players who can genuinely challenge them directly for their places).

Sanson might be one of those players to offer direct challenge to the 8 and 10 positions, but i also think we need a DM and an MC who can play 8/10, personally i would punt a good 50m+ on these two positions as they for me, are they two key areas we need to make a marked improvement on the current 11.

i think the DM, MC (8/10) and RW are the key/primary areas to address in the summer.

Absolutely amazing that you think that we would get two players for £50m who are better than McGinn and Luiz. We could sell the pair of them for more.

This entire thread is bizarre. We have played a heap of games off the back of a COVID scare, and players are clearly fatigued from not getting a decent break since.

Luiz has had his, and I expect him to come back raring to go. McGinn will also now have his. It is absolutely mental that anybody is calling for these two players to be replaced, when pre-COVID they were in excellent form and we were on an excellent run.

People actually think we're a Champions League team, when we are vastly out-performing our expectations - in large part due to players you want to replace. Classic Villa fan mentality.

Edited February 8, 2021 by gilbertoAVFC

[MaVilla]

22 minutes ago, gilbertoAVFC said:

Absolutely amazing that you think that we would get two players for £50m who are better than McGinn and Luiz. We could sell the pair of them for more.

This entire thread is bizarre. We have played a heap of games off the back of a COVID scare, and players are clearly fatigued from not getting a decent break since.

Luiz has had his, and I expect him to come back raring to go. McGinn will also now have his. It is absolutely mental that anybody is calling for these two players to be replaced, when pre-COVID they were in excellent form and we were on an excellent run.

People actually think we're a Champions League team, when we are vastly out-performing our expectations - in large part due to players you want to replace. Classic Villa fan mentality.

Mr Gilberto, someone not agreeing with what you think isnt "classic Villa fan mentality", its called personal opinion.......you know......something every person is entitled to?!

In no way did i state that i didnt think Luiz & McGinn werent good or important players for us, i stated that i believed to reach the next level consistently it would likely mean some of our players would need to have the challenge of other players who may or may not take those starting positions off them........its called competition.

Personally, for however good McGinn is, i dont think he is a top 6 player, he is a very good player, he's been amazing for us, he's a top guy, great in the dressing room etc and i think he would be a very good squad player for us if we wanted to consistently challenge for top 6, but that doesnt mean i dont critically analyse players......and for me personally, McGinn isnt a top 6 starting 11 player, and if the time does ever come where he isnt in our first 11, that will mean we have a very very good midfield indeed.

But to say "omg McGinn is amazing he could never be improved upon", comes across a little....blinkered, but its your opinion, so hey ho.

[DJ_Villain]

10 hours ago, paul514 said:

Anyone who doesn't think he is the best central midfielder we have is on drugs.

That sir is defamation of character!

 

I think he is by far the best central midfielder we have and am usually tripping my tits of 90% of the time!

[Bazmonkey]

4 hours ago, villalad21 said:

I've hardly seen a midfield getting bypassed easier than ours in this league.

Our defensive record is mainly down to an excellent back 4 and a phenomenal keeper.

Also a big shout out to Ollie Watkins who help us defending from the front at times.

This has been happening since we have returned. I have mentioned this a couple of times. Now is it down to tiredness or the remains of covid effects.

Either way its a concern as eventually something will break, ultimately the back of the net.

I think it is because we sit so deep, its a good job there are railings on the front row of the holte because i think some of the players would be at the back of it.   Full backs who allow crosses and wingers to run 20 yards before they look like challenging them

We have defenders behind the goalie.....midfielders in the 6 yard box...wheres the outlet if it does come out....nowhere....and it just keeps coming back...wave after wave....

No coincidence we looked better for 90 mins earlier in the season.....

 

2 hours ago, Mazrim said:

Nah. Not having that. Not saying it doesn't happen at times but saying we always get bypassed is nonsense. No back 5 would cope with that and put up the numbers we do if the midfield weren't doing their job, however good.

 

Just look at the stats for the past few games...possession...shots allowed on goal....our own shot count.....they dont lie.

Yes we have gained a couple of points but its not been through good defending...its all been backs to the wall....throw yourself in front of it...which is commendable but its not the best way to base a defensive element to the game....booting the ball away aimlessly inviting attack after attack....our ball retention is poor

IMO I think the team are gassed and needs to be rotated a bit more and earlier in a game...you could see in the Arsenal game...players were tired.....tired brings mistakes...mistakes lead to goals.

We have a 16 mil chap sitting on the bench...is he the answer...who knows...but until he plays we wont know.

[abdulaziz1]

16 hours ago, PaulC said:

The midfield trio that went to Arsenal and destroyed them was Luiz, McGinn and Barkley, that is still my preferred trio. Totally different to the game yesterday. Nakamba offers a physical presence but its not in the league as a fooballer as Luiz. Just need Luiz and McGinn playing at that level again. Talk of Ramsey in the mix is very premature. 

That Arsenal wasn’t the same as the current Arsenal. They’ve improved a bit since. 
Except of Liverpool and Arsenal games, I haven’t seen the form people talking at regarding Barkley. Yes he does good things, but most of games he’s the weak link up. Probably we need to choose games were he plays. He scored at Soton and Leicester, but wasn’t at his best.

I’d keep him on the bench next game, wether start Ramsey or Sanson. Against Brighton we need to be strong at the midfield, they’re in a very good form and they’re a good team. 

[abdulaziz1]

28 minutes ago, Bazmonkey said:

This has been happening since we have returned. I have mentioned this a couple of times. Now is it down to tiredness or the remains of covid effects.

Either way its a concern as eventually something will break, ultimately the back of the net.

I think it is because we sit so deep, its a good job there are railings on the front row of the holte because i think some of the players would be at the back of it.   Full backs who allow crosses and wingers to run 20 yards before they look like challenging them

We have defenders behind the goalie.....midfielders in the 6 yard box...wheres the outlet if it does come out....nowhere....and it just keeps coming back...wave after wave....

No coincidence we looked better for 90 mins earlier in the season.....

 

 

Just look at the stats for the past few games...possession...shots allowed on goal....our own shot count.....they dont lie.

Yes we have gained a couple of points but its not been through good defending...its all been backs to the wall....throw yourself in front of it...which is commendable but its not the best way to base a defensive element to the game....booting the ball away aimlessly inviting attack after attack....our ball retention is poor

IMO I think the team are gassed and needs to be rotated a bit more and earlier in a game...you could see in the Arsenal game...players were tired.....tired brings mistakes...mistakes lead to goals.

We have a 16 mil chap sitting on the bench...is he the answer...who knows...but until he plays we wont know.

Smith has an issue with changing players. Some people says that he doesn’t trust his squad. But in reality, he doesn’t even change his squad players. For example he didn’t change Nakamba even when he had a yellow. I don’t remember him changing Ramsey against Wolves (yet it was his only start). It seems he doesn’t like to change unless when he’s losing (and even then he does it carefully). He sometimes change Traore and Barkley because of their fitness level which he doesn’t seem to trust a lot. 
I think he needs to react much quicker.