The Midfield Three

[TRO]

On 13/02/2021 at 22:28, Lord Willard said:

2 Vs 5 tonight 

then more fool us, for not changing it earlier.

[est1874]

Based on everything I've seen over the last few weeks I see absolutely no reason not to drop all three - Luiz, McGinn, Barkley and replace them with Nakamba, Sanson and Ramsey for the next game.

It won't happen, as Smith is too conservative for the sledgehammer approach, but it absolutely should IMO.

All 3 of them need a massive kick up the arse after the last few weeks, and dropping them is the only way to achieve that to any decent effect.

Also Nakamba deserves to play again off the back of 2 decent performances in his last 2 appearances, Sanson looked good, and there is absolutely no way Ramsey could possibly be any worse than Barkley.

Give him a shot I say, he's sure to work harder if nothing else.

[gwi1890]

25 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

In this context, plus the rumours at the time, and statements re: the signing.

You start to now wonder if the Barkley loan was an alternative/backup to not signing Sanson in the summer.

Which is now a bit awkward. lol

Possibly,  I have no problem with Ross being here Or signing him permanently if the price is right come summer, I just don’t think he warrants a start every game and tbh I think his confidence is down he’s dwelling on the ball instead of driving forward with it like he did in the Liverpool game, But there would be no harm in starting our own player (Sanson) next game if Ross has the right mentality he will work 10 times harder to regain his spot and a place in the England squad

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

People will say McGinn appears " undroppable ", he isn't/shouldn't be.

However, I think most of us can agree than he get smore time of day from all of us for obvious reasons.

The one thing you can never say about him is that he hasn't " put a shift in ", which is a key difference.

When he is firing, the whole team is also better as a result.

[zab6359]

• Retain our Premier League place on the last day of the season. 
• Convincingly beat the League Champions 7-2 early on in the new season
• Playing great football (mostly admit we have been off the boil a couple of games)
• 2nd best defence in the league
• 8th in the league over half way through the season with a game (or two) in hand on most the teams above us

Lets drop our entire midfield to 'give them a kick up the arse'

Love it!

[skarroki]

We looked absolutely shot, I'd go back to what we were doing before Barkley came back and put Sanson and Nakamba behind Grealish with Trez and Traore on wings. We need to set up in a way our next opposition won't expect because currently we may as well send them a document with our formation and tactics before the game, it's too easy to predict what we're going to do and therefore nullify Jack and Watkins 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

21 minutes ago, zab6359 said:

• Retain our Premier League place on the last day of the season. 
• Convincingly beat the League Champions 7-2 early on in the new season
• Playing great football (mostly admit we have been off the boil a couple of games)
• 2nd best defence in the league
• 8th in the league over half way through the season with a game (or two) in hand on most the teams above us

Lets drop our entire midfield to 'give them a kick up the arse'

Love it!

There are so many obvious flaws in this one track type of post that I genuinely can't be assed going into.

I'm sure someone else has the time.

Although you pretty much summed up the answer to your own question in bold.

Guessing Liverpool have no need for concern or to consider changes in personnel or system since they:

- Walked the League last season

- Champions League winners

- Club World Champions

- All the other positive statistics etc.

This is one of those examples of an " I'm a better fan "  post , just because.

By this logic, we probably should have just kept the team we got promoted with.

Edited February 15, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[The Fun Factory]

McGinn has just been pointed out in the Guardian as one of the main reasons why we are having a good season. I think sometimes we can be to critical after a couple of sub par peformances.

[zab6359]

4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

There are so many obvious flaws in this one track type of post that I genuinely can't be assed going into.

I'm sure someone else has the time.

Although you pretty much summed up the answer to your own question in bold.

Guessing Liverpool have no need for concern or to consider changes in personnel or system since they:

- Walked the League last season

- Champions League winners

- All the other positive statistics etc.

Your post doesn't make sense you are getting carried away in the moment, realistically we shouldn't be in 8th we are punching above our weight and you are happy to drop all 3 midfielders to 'kick them all up the arse' because of some average performances. We are doing well for a reason and it's a settled team, we don't have the strength in depth to 'kick players up the arse' it really is nonsence!

[CVByrne]

I'd like to see McGinn move further forward with Luiz and Sanson in the holding midfield roles. We need to win these midfield battles and McGinn's energy in place of Barkley being passive. Barkley off the bench is a good option to have too. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

10 minutes ago, zab6359 said:

Your post doesn't make sense you are getting carried away in the moment, realistically we shouldn't be in 8th we are punching above our weight and you are happy to drop all 3 midfielders to 'kick them all up the arse' because of some average performances. We are doing well for a reason and it's a settled team, we don't have the strength in depth to 'kick players up the arse' it really is nonsence!

If we lost every game until the end of the season ( Obviously won't happen ), some of you would regurgitate the same nonsense, which we are all aware of.

In the last post match interview, Deano and Emi should have probably rolled out the same line as your original post, which would have then put everything in perspective hey?

WTF does repeating the bleedingly obvious have to do with the fact that some of our players and performances have been dire recently?

Why has Deano dropped Luiz etc recently? I'm not even sure i've seen anyone advocate dropping the whole midfield, which you have obviously lined in your post for effect.

The discussion is about finding a better balance and seeing how we can manipulate the personnel we have, for the best result, in the face of some of our midfielders being out of form, and our midfield being overrun. Not many are touting it as a permanent solution.

You think it's a coincidence you don't see people calling for dropping the defence, or Ollie Watkins?

There is a reason we have players in the squad and on the bench.

People need to get more creative than just rolling out the obvious every time there is critique or rightful scrutiny of performances, players and decisions.

Edited February 15, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[zab6359]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

If we lost every game until the end of the season ( Obviously won't happen ), some of you would regurgitate the same nonsense, which we are all aware of.

In the last post match interview, Deano and Emi should have probably rolled out the same line as your original post, which would have then put everything in perspective hey?

WTF does repeating the bleedingly obvious have to do with the fact that some of our players and performances have been dire recently?

Why has Deano dropped Luiz etc recently? I'm not even sure i've seen anyone advocate dropping the whole midfield, which you have obviously lined in your post for effect.

The discussion is about finding a better balance and seeing how we can manipulate the personnel we have, for the best result, in the face of some of our midfielders being out of form, and our midfield being overrun. Not many are touting it as a permanent solution.

You think it's a coincidence you don't see people calling for dropping the defence, or Ollie Watkins?

There is a reason we have players in the squad and on the bench.

People need to get more creative than just rolling out the obvious every time there is critique or rightful scrutiny of performances and decisions.

Friggin hilarious do you read posts? It's why I felt compelled to call that shit out! 

You liked the post calling for all 3 of the midfield to be dropped? 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 minutes ago, zab6359 said:

Friggin hilarious do you read posts? It's why I felt compelled to call that shit out! 

You liked the post calling for all 3 of the midfield to be dropped? 

I liked the sentiment of the post, the poster is basically pointing out that all 3 have been so bad, he could see an argument for dropping all 3.

In the same post he also states that it won't happen, as we know it won't.

If you look back at my posts in the thread, I myself have said we should find a way to manipulate it somehow, to get the best out of them. 

We don't necessarily have the depth to drop all 3, but there is a solid argument for at least 1 - 2 of them being dropped.

Either way, it doesn't change my overall messaging, just because they have played a part in " Insert all the positive statistics here " thus far, doesn't mean when they are bang out of form, they can't/shouldn't be dropped.

I even went on to say that McGinn get more time of day from me, as " undroppable " over the others.

 

[The Rosk]

El Ghazi must be wondering what he has to do to get a look-in when he scored five bloody goals in December in LF, Jack can play in the No.10 role and Barkley has not had a good run of games for a while now.  Surely the blinkers must be taken off to let the rest of the team have a go.  Even Nakamba has arguably done better in minutes-to-performance than any of the other midfielders, and he can't get back in. 

If we play to the same level we did against Brighton vs Leicester, we will get humped.  

I do love the upside of Barkley (clearly a ferocious talent when on fire) but he has to sit this one out and prove his work rate/fitness levels - the tracking back/tackles/assists numbers are pretty shocking, so we need to figure out whatever it is that is stopping him contributing at the moment.  

[Delphinho123]

53 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

There are so many obvious flaws in this one track type of post that I genuinely can't be assed going into.

I'm sure someone else has the time.

Although you pretty much summed up the answer to your own question in bold.

Guessing Liverpool have no need for concern or to consider changes in personnel or system since they:

- Walked the League last season

- Champions League winners

- Club World Champions

- All the other positive statistics etc.

This is one of those examples of an " I'm a better fan "  post , just because.

By this logic, we probably should have just kept the team we got promoted with.

It’s so true. Pathetic post really. 

I think everyone is thrilled with the season we’re having and totally behind Smith. There are however, issues with our side at present and these sarcastic posts in response to people suggesting ideas as to how we improve add nothing to the argument. 

We’re building something special and I’m totally on board with the owners and manager. Wanting to freshen things up in an area we’ve been poor in, in the last 5/6 games isn’t a crime. 

Classic VT though I’m afraid! UTV

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, est1874 said:

Based on everything I've seen over the last few weeks I see absolutely no reason not to drop all three - Luiz, McGinn, Barkley and replace them with Nakamba, Sanson and Ramsey for the next game.

It won't happen, as Smith is too conservative for the sledgehammer approach, but it absolutely should IMO.

All 3 of them need a massive kick up the arse after the last few weeks, and dropping them is the only way to achieve that to any decent effect.

Also Nakamba deserves to play again off the back of 2 decent performances in his last 2 appearances, Sanson looked good, and there is absolutely no way Ramsey could possibly be any worse than Barkley.

Give him a shot I say, he's sure to work harder if nothing else.

Personally think the would be irresponsible bordering negligence. A midfield 3 need time to work with each other. Throwing a completely new midfield together for a game would end badly. I’m pretty sure of it. 
 

I think changing Barkley for Sanson would suffice. 

[The Rosk]

Also - I frankly think our results since the break have disguised a lot poorer form. 

We really did not deserve a point from Brighton at all.  3 points against Arsenal and Southampton, where a point arguably would have been fair for both sides.  Burnley we should have got something for sure.  Newcastle is the only team we've played where we've played comfortably better.  West Ham battered us.  

Through sheer defensive effort/goalkeeping masterclass we have managed to get 10 points there from 7 games, when on reflection we probably should have had 6.  That's near or around relegation form, stretched out across the season. 

And a lot of that comes down to the midfield - arguably the only clear weakness across that entire time.  IMO this needs sorting, and sharpish.

Just to be clear.  I am delighted with where Villa are going, and we are unbelievably lucky to be in the position we are in given the last 10 years of dross.  However, last season all we were calling for was a bigger squad, more strength in depth etc - now we've spent a lot of money on it, we don't seem to be using it.  

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by The Rosk

[est1874]

12 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Personally think the would be irresponsible bordering negligence. A midfield 3 need time to work with each other. Throwing a completely new midfield together for a game would end badly. I’m pretty sure of it. 
 

I think changing Barkley for Sanson would suffice. 

Sanson is not an attacking midfielder. Barkley has been shocking, but McGinn has been just as bad. I'd have them both out at minimum.

Edited February 15, 2021 by est1874

[Laughable Chimp]

I don't think our issues are down to the failings of any single player so I don't think replacing any single player with another is going to change much.

[Indigo]

Classic VT is people with reasonable opinions on either side of a debate treating the corresponding folk as though they're all on the extreme end of it and everyone accusing each other of the same thing and calling it "classic VT".