OutByEaster? Posted May 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said: We’ve learnt nothing new from that game. We have McGinn and the other two need replacing. I'd say we have Luiz and two thirds of a McGinn. We need six players - two for each of the three positions, so that we can cover injuries, cover loss of form and have the ability to change things in games. For me, McGinn and Luiz are two of those players, I'm not sure Ramsey is yet, Sanson might be and will get a chance to prove he can be, Nakamba can be at a push, Barkley will be gone, Chukwuemeka will still be very young. So even at best case; McGinn, Luiz, Sanson and Nakamba still leaves us two bodies short - if we had those bodies today, we'd have been able to change things in the second half. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I'd say we have Luiz and two thirds of a McGinn. We need six players - two for each of the three positions, so that we can cover injuries, cover loss of form and have the ability to change things in games. For me, McGinn and Luiz are two of those players, I'm not sure Ramsey is yet, Sanson might be and will get a chance to prove he can be, Nakamba can be at a push, Barkley will be gone, Chukwuemeka will still be very young. So even at best case; McGinn, Luiz, Sanson and Nakamba still leaves us two bodies short - if we had those bodies today, we'd have been able to change things in the second half. Depends where Jack plays next season. He moves back to number 10 and in reality it's just two positions and McGinn is stick on while DS remains here so more just one position so in those circumstances no room at all for Nakamba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyg Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 1 hour ago, rodders0223 said: McGinn's goal will mask it but honestly you have Luiz who can keep the ball wants to keep the ball is composed and plays at the right tempo no matter the pressure. You have McGinn who bombs on and should be getting goals so he's doing his job there...but honestly can you have a midfielder who doesn't get on the ball like him, gives the ball away as much as him, the slightest bit of pressure he loses it? So slow with his passing so rattled when the opposition are on top. Can't find a pass to save his life. Even the passes 2 feet in front of him. McGinn is the problem. Always has been. Totally agree.... some keep saying he is yet to get back to form... but what form? He has only performed for us in the championship... which I think is his level. If we want to progress in the league it is without mcginn in this midfield... as a starter anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 McGinn is far from the only problem but when he doesnt perform the midfield are crap. So maybe the other two arent good enough either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 2 hours ago, PaulC said: McGinn is far from the only problem but when he doesnt perform the midfield are crap. So maybe the other two arent good enough either! Or they have to do his job too which is detrimental to their own performances? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 6 hours ago, PaulC said: McGinn is far from the only problem but when he doesnt perform the midfield are crap. So maybe the other two arent good enough either! 69.7 pass accuracy from 33 passes, he is a HUGE problem at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Zatman said: 69.7 pass accuracy from 33 passes, he is a HUGE problem at the moment He plays a lot of cross field passes. low percentage. He could just play the simple passes and have a better percentage rate. His biggest problem is he tires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, PaulC said: He plays a lot of cross field passes. low percentage. He could just play the simple passes and have a better percentage rate. His biggest problem is he tires He shouldnt be playing passes he cant play, he isnt technically good enough to spread the play and loses us possession from it. A good midfield player knows his limitations 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, Zatman said: He shouldnt be playing passes he cant play, he isnt technically good enough to spread the play and loses us possession from it. A good midfield player knows his limitations The manager must want him to keep trying those balls else he would stop playing them. Grealish has already said hes the best long passer of the ball at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Something's not right, something needs fixing, but I think it's more the two wingers and the attacking midfielder than it is the midfield three, Luiz and McGInn were doing perfectly fine when Grealish was in the team and Ross Barkley were on form. That is our biggest problems reside in the creative side of things and the over reliance on Grealish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 (edited) The is still our biggest problem, followed next by the wide forwards. Our midfield three, whoever they are, are utterly terrible without the ball. We don’t press effectively, just sit back and invite pressure. We don’t track runners effectively. We can’t tackle. We have no presence in the air. Our anticipation and game reading is non existent. There is no leadership. Non of them carry the ball effectively. We are not physical. Add to that the fact that McGinn is not fit enough and gives the ball away too much. I think that McGinn, Luiz, Sanson are all good enough to be part of our squad but they can’t play together. We need to buy a proper DM and a proper 10. Then one of the others comes in to complete the trio. I don’t think Dean sees it the same way though. McGinn will start for him whatever, probably alongside Luiz. Edited May 17, 2021 by M_Afro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted May 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 17, 2021 fast track carney...get him in the gym, bulk him up, get him physically ready. he's good enough for the bench, so can't be far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 McGinn was the best player on the pitch against Everton and as we became overwhelmed yesterday it was by no means the worst player on the pitch - I thought he did okay as Palace looked to be more offensive especially with wide over loads (when did they become a thing and overlaps not?). Anyway, he will eventually have to be replaced but I think we'd have been okay yesterday if we had a fit Jack and a first 10 games barkley playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 We are just unbalanced in the midfield 3. I think we need to have options of 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 and 4-1-4-1 to be adaptable to different opposition as we need to be able to change to different opposition and mod game. I think we've players out of form and a bit found out in McGinn, Luiz and Barkley. We need that steel in midfield to win the ball and be a physical presence. I think we'll see Jack play at 10 more especially if we can sign a top quality wide forward who can take the ball forward too. Watkins out left and a new Centre Forward. This gives us options in midfield and up front I think three key signings are DMC, RF and CF or DMC, AMC, and RF. If you could pick three players who could drop in to make the difference. Pereira, Berge and Tammy for example. We need players who can play more than one position so we can adapt formations a bit easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted May 19, 2021 Author Share Posted May 19, 2021 On 16/05/2021 at 13:56, Delphinho123 said: We’ve learnt nothing new from that game. We have McGinn and the other two need replacing. I take it back. Grealish is your 10 with McGinn just behind. Get a new DM and the midfield is sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 On 16/05/2021 at 15:47, Jimmyg said: Totally agree.... some keep saying he is yet to get back to form... but what form? He has only performed for us in the championship... which I think is his level. If we want to progress in the league it is without mcginn in this midfield... as a starter anyway. Disagree… he was awesome in our first season back in PL and arguably outperforming Jack until he got that severe injury. Jack really stepped up to the plate after that… He has frustrated me but if we can work on his fitness and conditioning during preseason he might get back to that standard and will be a major & reliable asset to the team. He hasn’t displayed enough of that kind of form (there have been flashes and the odd quality performance) but his game/form almost completely relies on high fitness & energy levels… We mustn’t forget that it has been a massively disrupted and unusual/unique season… there are mitigating factors for our drop offs in form and uneven performances (inconsistency) of individual players… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 On 19/05/2021 at 20:57, Delphinho123 said: I take it back. Grealish is your 10 with McGinn just behind. Get a new DM and the midfield is sorted. Can’t disagree with that but I expect Sanson to genuinely challenge him next season (which will be a big help & advantage - competition brings out the best in players). We could really do with a strong DM who can help control and dictate our play but is equally adept at breaking up opposition play and cannot be outmuscled or brushed off the ball… I would love it to be Luiz (he was excellent and key to helping us stay up at the backend of last season) but he doesn’t appear to have the strength or stature for that role, maybe that could come with time. He could compete with Sanson & McGinn but, by now, it’s fairly obvious that Dean likes him best as our deepest MF. Nakamba doesn’t possess the required quality and strength either but is a useful and helpful member of the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 48 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Nakamba doesn’t possess the required quality and strength either but is a useful and helpful member of the squad. 6 full games 5 wins 1 draw. Can't argue with that record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 433 and 4231 are completely different systems which ask the three midfielders to play completely different roles. See this video below where David Brent explains the difference and why 433 is harder to play, but more effective at dominating the game, because it requires a different profile of a player. We played 4231 with Barkley on the pitch because he didn't do a lot for us defensively, which required McGinn and Dougie to stay a bit more defensive and limit their forays forward. When he decided to turn up and play, we destroyed teams with only 1 of the three more advanced (Games like 7-2 Liverpool, the Fulham thrashing, etc.). Games where Barkley phoned it in, our attack was blunted and we didn't have an option on the bench to come in and either play Barkley's role or have an engine like McGinn, so we struggled to swap tactics mid game. The Sanson signing allows us to play 433 in a trio with McGinn and Luiz, with Douglas at the base in arguably his best role dictating the tempo of our play, while McGinn and Sanson leg it out by running forward when we have the ball, and back when we don't. Nakamba is, IMO, best in a 4231, where isn't isn't the one dictating tempo and passing the ball out himself. We have options in the midfield, but still need 1 player who is more consistent than Barkley to play that out and out attacking role. Pereira would fit in this role like a glove, as would Grealish, if we signed someone to play out wide left. Either way, I don't think our midfield problems are caused by Dougie or Nakamba not being defensive enough or McGinn not being a good enough passer. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterSw Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Agree with this. Hopefully in Luiz, McGinn and Sanson, Smith finally has the trio to make it work. We do need another one in there to rotate there I think. Bottler or not, I can't help but like Rodgers and the way he talks tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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