Summer transfer window 2021

[villalad21]

9 hours ago, nick76 said:

 

 

Love the joke

I am still scarred from watching Barkley. 

[Peter Griffin]

20 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

On somebody like Doucoure - He has 34 appearances in Ligue 1. This lad who also plays in midfield, the one whom we signed from France last year with over 200 appearances in Ligue 1 and 25 in Europe, including 6 in the Champions League last season and a Europa League Final previously, has barely kicked a ball for us yet but has already been written off.

So why on earth would anyone think a player from the same league with far less experience and almost no pedigree to speak of except for looking good on fbref automatically be the answer?

I am not just referring to this post, but needed to reply to one of your posts, but you Sir, speak a lot of sense!

[thabucks]

22 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

On somebody like Doucoure - He has 34 appearances in Ligue 1. This lad who also plays in midfield, the one whom we signed from France last year with over 200 appearances in Ligue 1 and 25 in Europe, including 6 in the Champions League last season and a Europa League Final previously, has barely kicked a ball for us yet but has already been written off.

So why on earth would anyone think a player from the same league with far less experience and almost no pedigree to speak of except for looking good on fbref automatically be the answer?

The allure of these mythical African DM from France especially, is a trap and cliche all too easy to fall into.  I thoroughly believe we had a plan A) a plan B ) and then trust in the academy this summer. 
 

Realistically Chuckwuemeka, Iroegbunan,  Doucore, or Sarr was never going to be our cm combinations in 3/4’years. Obviously different positions & qualities but 4 into 2 from the academy doesn’t make sense… In Mark Harrison we Trust! 

 

 

[striker]

2 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

It's not a thing unique to Manchester's United and City though, it is the same for clubs up and down the land. However I chose those two clubs because they finished 1st and 2nd in the Premier League last season, and went into this summer with obvious flaws that they failed to fix. United will be making a title push with Fred and McTominay in the centre of their midfield, if that isn't an constant flaw then I don't know what is. City have all the money in the world, why didn't they sign a decent striker? I mean surely Danny Ings would have been an upgrade on, umm, absolutely nobody?

So why are they sitting on their hands? Probably for the same reason as Aston Villa. The player(s) they identified either weren't available or they couldn't get those deals over the line. So rather than settle for plan E or F they have decided to go with what they have. Perhaps, just maybe, Johan Lange et al don't think Cheick Doucoure or whomever VT's wunderscouts could name would be enough of an improvement on our current lot to make it worth our while pissing £30m up the wall on? 

It is obvious that these owners, and everyone involved in the club right now, have a long term ambition to put Aston Villa back amongst the elite. We should be advised that this doesn't happen overnight, so why try and force it? You can still make a push without simultaneously shitting your pants, as is all too often the case *cough*Everton*cough*

Again I would make the point that the teams you’ve mentioned have far superior squads than Villa which compensate for the flaws you mention. Secondly, they have a recent history of competing for or winning trophies.backed by wealthy owners who would be targeting higher profile players than Villa such as Ronaldo for instance.

Conversely Villa wouldn’t be able to attract such players, yet would be able to attract better midfielders than they currently have at the moment such as Bissouma whom I note you’ve excluded from your reply and preferred to concentrate on untried french players mentioned on VT.

Furthermore, you use the excuse that possible Villa targets may not have been available? Offering 25m-30m in the current climate for Southampton’s best player Prowse or indeed Arsenal’s best young player Smith Rowe was always going to receive a short shifted no. Did Lange or the Villa owners actually think they were going to get those players on the cheap when Villa had sold their best player for 100m? Could Villa have gotten one or indeed both players if they had offered what their clubs wanted? Could they have gotten Bissouma if they again had made a going rate offer for him?

If you want to compete for European places in the Premiership by shopping for other Premiership club’s best players then you need to show ambition by paying the going rate rather than making unrealistic offers which were not going to be accepted.

Finally with respect. All I’ve heard coming out of Villa with every change of manager or owner since God knows when ‘we have long term ambition.’ When does that long term vision come to fruition when Villa haven’t won anything of note since 1996?

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by striker

[striker]

6 minutes ago, striker said:

Edit, double post.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by striker

[Kiwivillan]

9 minutes ago, striker said:

Conversely Villa wouldn’t be able to attract such players, yet would be able to attract better midfielders than they currently have at the moment such as Bissouma

One of the most boring tropes this window like we can just click fingers and Brighton go here you go or more simply that management are happy with the coverage we have in that position regardless how much Villa fans in forums and social media keep repeating the same mantras

[ChicagoVillan1983]

When you come onto VT and there are no “hot” threads.

@villalad21 @Delphinho123 OUTTTTT

Edited September 3, 2021 by ChicagoVillan1983

[Delphinho123]

5 hours ago, ChicagoVillan1983 said:

When you come onto VT and there are no “hot” threads.

@villalad21 @Delphinho123 OUTTTTT

I've taken some time out. 

I'll be back. Spittin' truths. 

[striker]

9 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

One of the most boring tropes this window like we can just click fingers and Brighton go here you go or more simply that management are happy with the coverage we have in that position regardless how much Villa fans in forums and social media keep repeating the same mantras

What absolute nonsense!! I neither said or implied that.

Brighton have never stated they wouldn’t be prepared to sell if offered the right price especially when Bissouma’s contract is running down!

It really does surprise me that some Villa fans on here have had their ambitions driven out of them by years of mediocrity and are prepared to continually accept false promises by every owner of AVFC since 96 of pots of gold at the end of a never ending rainbow because they’ve actually become used to it.

Villa have new affluent owners. Credit must be given to those owners for investing heavily in the squad but when you sell your best player for 100m and are probably only two signings away from making Villa into a real force you push on as quickly as you can when the means are available to do that rather than putting the breaks on.

[Kiwivillan]

33 minutes ago, striker said:

It really does surprise me that some Villa fans on here have had their ambitions driven out of them by years of mediocrity and are prepared to continually accept false promises by every owner of AVFC since 96 of pots of gold at the end of a never ending rainbow because they’ve actually become used to it.

Yeah see it's this bullshit that grinds my gears. Like every Villa fan should fall into the "I want it" Football Manager replace all the players because they're not good enough. I personally like the Luiz and McGinn pairing plus the Sanson signing and our youth coming through and aren't obsessed about the unicorn DCM that doesn't fit our playing style since Smith took over.

Some on here are completely reactionary after a negative result like wanting back to back twice relegated Billing from Bournemouth because he's a big unit DCM that had his game of the season when they beat us

Edited September 3, 2021 by Kiwivillan

[Steero113]

12 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

On somebody like Doucoure - He has 34 appearances in Ligue 1. This lad who also plays in midfield, the one whom we signed from France last year with over 200 appearances in Ligue 1 and 25 in Europe, including 6 in the Champions League last season and a Europa League Final previously, has barely kicked a ball for us yet but has already been written off.

So why on earth would anyone think a player from the same league with far less experience and almost no pedigree to speak of except for looking good on fbref automatically be the answer?

Fantastic post and totally agree. 

FBref can be a curse as well as a useful tool sometimes. 

Also, Sanson will come good for us when he's finally up to speed I know he will. 

[lexicon]

Just now, Steero113 said:

Fantastic post and totally agree. 

FBref can be a curse as well as a useful tool sometimes. 

Also, Sanson will come good for us when he's finally up to speed I know he will. 

His 45 against Wycombe was a good refresher for him. He bombed around the pitch pressing, was well involved in our play and while he was a little rusty, understandably, it was a good indication of what he'll be able to do when up to speed. 

[Czarnikjak]

47 minutes ago, striker said:

Villa have new affluent owners. Credit must be given to those owners for investing heavily in the squad but when you sell your best player for 100m and are probably only two signings away from making Villa into a real force you push on as quickly as you can when the means are available to do that rather than putting the breaks on.

How much money spent is enough? How many new players is enough? The answer is, it's never enough. Some fans will always demand more. Two more,realistically available, players  this summer wouldn't make us a "real force". If you agree that you can only be a real force if you regularly compete for the lucrative champions league places.

Our spending since NSWE takeover was at unsustainable levels,it had to stop sooner rather than later. 

Look at Everton who tried to fast track their ascent to the top by spending at unsustainable levels. They made no progress on the pitch and found themselves in the clutches of FFP.

[villalad21]

10 hours ago, striker said:

Again I would make the point that the teams you’ve mentioned have far superior squads than Villa which compensate for the flaws you mention. Secondly, they have a recent history of competing for or winning trophies.backed by wealthy owners who would be targeting higher profile players than Villa such as Ronaldo for instance.

Conversely Villa wouldn’t be able to attract such players, yet would be able to attract better midfielders than they currently have at the moment such as Bissouma whom I note you’ve excluded from your reply and preferred to concentrate on untried french players mentioned on VT.

Furthermore, you use the excuse that possible Villa targets may not have been available? Offering 25m-30m in the current climate for Southampton’s best player Prowse or indeed Arsenal’s best young player Smith Rowe was always going to receive a short shifted no. Did Lange or the Villa owners actually think they were going to get those players on the cheap when Villa had sold their best player for 100m? Could Villa have gotten one or indeed both players if they had offered what their clubs wanted? Could they have gotten Bissouma if they again had made a going rate offer for him?

If you want to compete for European places in the Premiership by shopping for other Premiership club’s best players then you need to show ambition by paying the going rate rather than making unrealistic offers which were not going to be accepted.

Finally with respect. All I’ve heard coming out of Villa with every change of manager or owner since God knows when ‘we have long term ambition.’ When does that long term vision come to fruition when Villa haven’t won anything of note since 1996?

 

 

 

There is no way Everton would be able to attract Allan and Rodriguez without Ancelotti. 

I think losing Grealish and JT was a huge blow on this front. Huge names and big profiles. They raised the profile of the club 100 %

With them gone there's not a lot of big profile names left. We will have to depend on the youth actually proving the hype and find some gems. Because no, I don't think we currently can attract any big names. 

[villabromsgrove]

We have instituted a club plan in which we sign the most talented young players out there, with the intention of developing and honing their ability to bring them through to the first team.

In this scenario we are probably two to three seasons away from fully benefitting from this policy.

I was as keen as anyone to sign JWP, Bissouma etc, but I have to admit that these kind of signings would put a block on opportunities for our young prospects.

The question is do we trust our owners and management team to deliver on this plan? 

Replacing Richard O'Kelly with Aaron Danks is a major indicator that youth development is absolutely key to our current thinking.

If we agree that this is the most sensible way forward for a mid table Premier club who despite being cash rich can't attract the top category players, then we have to be patient enough to allow our young players the time and space to gain experience in and around the first team squad.

Dean Smith seems to be committed to this policy given his recent comments about the progress of individual young players.

I'm going to try and watch our games less critically this season with this in mind.

 

[dudevillaisnice]

Just now, villabromsgrove said:

The question is do we trust our owners and management team to deliver on this plan? 

I think people have been burnt by the past during the Lerner years, so any talks of “long term plans” are immediately met with scepticism .. we have had the “this crop of youth are different” .. “the three year plan” .. “the transition season” talk so many times only for us to languish near the relegation zone sell of our best players and eventually end up relegated. I think (and hope) this time is different though as we do have some level of investment in and we seem a bit more clued up in the boardroom atleast…

[villabromsgrove]

6 minutes ago, dudevillaisnice said:

I think people have been burnt by the past during the Lerner years, so any talks of “long term plans” are immediately met with scepticism .. we have had the “this crop of youth are different” .. “the three year plan” .. “the transition season” talk so many times only for us to languish near the relegation zone sell of our best players and eventually end up relegated. I think (and hope) this time is different though as we do have some level of investment in and we seem a bit more clued up in the boardroom atleast…

The big difference this time is that in the last couple of years Villa has become the number one club in the UK in terms of attracting the very best young players. Even top six clubs have been missing out on players because of the perception that AVFC are now the best option for youth development.

Previous "long term plans" were pipe dreams built on shifting sand, in comparison to the concrete base that we're now building on.

[KMitch]

15 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

We have instituted a club plan in which we sign the most talented young players out there, with the intention of developing and honing their ability to bring them through to the first team.

In this scenario we are probably two to three seasons away from fully benefitting from this policy.

I was as keen as anyone to sign JWP, Bissouma etc, but I have to admit that these kind of signings would put a block on opportunities for our young prospects.

The question is do we trust our owners and management team to deliver on this plan? 

Replacing Richard O'Kelly with Aaron Danks is a major indicator that youth development is absolutely key to our current thinking.

If we agree that this is the most sensible way forward for a mid table Premier club who despite being cash rich can't attract the top category players, then we have to be patient enough to allow our young players the time and space to gain experience in and around the first team squad.

Dean Smith seems to be committed to this policy given his recent comments about the progress of individual young players.

I'm going to try and watch our games less critically this season with this in mind.

 

Fully agreed with all of this.  I think the bolded part is especially critical to our strategy going forward.  The allure of playing in the Premier League will not be enough to recruit the sort of player who we've identified to push us into the Champions League, unless the board is willing to entice them by throwing even more money at our targets than the "top" clubs would be able to offer.  This can be dangerous, though, if we get our recruitment wrong, and we have a lopsided wage bill which could sink the club like a massive anchor.  Looks like the club isn't willing to take this amount of risk on yet.  

Developing the youth team prospects is the way to go.  The top talents will break into the first team squad and those who aren't good enough for us will be sold on to other clubs to generate regular income.  Just look at how much of a profit Chelsea and Man City have generated over the 5-8 seasons by selling on their youth prospects.  Hell, even Liverpool has been fleecing other teams with their most overrated prospects for a few seasons now.  Even if none of these players don't make it into our first team, the money generated by selling them will help balance the books a bit and allow us to be a bit more risky with the wages offered to our new quality 1st team recruits.  

[alreadyexists]

Imagine three or four years ago, someone saying we were a mid table premier league side… it seemed a million miles away. Thanks to NSWE, the players and to Dean Smith we are where we are now. It could’ve all been a lot worse.

[Delphinho123]

5 minutes ago, alreadyexists said:

Imagine three or four years ago, someone saying we were a mid table premier league side… it seemed a million miles away. Thanks to NSWE, the players and to Dean Smith we are where we are now. It could’ve all been a lot worse.

Agreed, but that doesn’t mean we can’t all hope for more.