Summer transfer window 2021

[fruitvilla]

4 hours ago, cb_82 said:

I dont get all the negativity

I don't think these people see themselves as negative or perhaps just not very negative. They may may or may not be negative but they certainly come across that way. Those of us who are a little more understanding of the situation accept not every opportunity pans out. Some opportunities we might miss all together. These things happen. Beundia, Young, Bailey, Ings and Taunzebe are not a bad haul. Sure everyone might have wanted more.

By my simplistic accounting Villa should be cash rich at the moment. Pay down debt, put a deposit down on stadium improvements, or simply have a war fund come January. There possibly are other options out there for our cash. 

Overall it's been a good summer buying spree. Europe is far from a certainty, but we never know.

Edited September 1, 2021 by fruitvilla

[est1874]

Amazing how many people turn into accountants when football transfers are involved 

Or how many actual accountants pop out of the woodwork having finally found a captive audience to listen to them

[barry'sboots]

19 hours ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said:

A tweet that perfectly encaptures why this thread is so annoying. There has been absolutely zero information from the club to suggest that is true, but people just assume it is, just like how many in here have been writing up fantasy transfer lists with no basis in reality then just assumed that's who the club are targeting.

And then for some reason people are throwing their toys out the pram because their wild assumptions with no basis turned out to be wrong!

 

"Done zero since arriving"? Like he would **** know!

And its this kind of response that is equally frustrating in the opposite direction.  People aren't allowed to question anything/debate their ideal incomings without others getting upset.  I'm not quite sure what the purpose of a discussion forum is if people can't make these comments/debate/question strategy either in transfer dealings or manager's tactics.  And if this discussion frustrates you, because you don't feel its a valid question, I'm really not sure why you come on to these threads.  Maybe we should have two separate parts to the site - one for all of those that are really happy with the direction of travel and have no concerns/questions about the management's decisions (I think this would be pretty bland with everyone just saying that things are great??) and one for people who want to discuss it/throw out a challenge for debate, although it seems to me that the former would probably miss bashing the latter under this scenario. 

He's asking a valid question imho - Mackenzie was brought in because of his track record of unearthing gems yet all we have bought this summer is established stars or youth prospects, with the latter largely known to Harrison from his time at West Brom.  This summer's recruits of Buendia, Ings, Bailey, Young and Tuanzebe could have easily come off one of those fantasy lists that you dismiss so nonchalantly.  Bailey is the only one that people might not know particularly well, unless they follow European football, but I have seen plenty on similar threads on VT in the past referring to him as a very good target.

Maybe we have misunderstood his brief/have false expectations of what he can achieve??  And perhaps the mass media coverage and analysis/scouting sites mean that market is now almost perfect and unearthing a gem is no longer possible.  Brentford's model - albeit at a slightly lower level - and Leicester's recent track record would suggest that this is not necessarily the case.

I genuinely think 99% off the people on this site want the best for Villa but clearly large numbers see things differently.

[Peter Griffin]

2 hours ago, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said:

I found this v useful, indeed. Seeing the figures laid out like this clarifies things.

This is probably the wrong thread for my comment, but the concept of amortisation of players as part of FFP is bananas, isn’t it? I mean FFP was notionally at least about balancing the books but this type of calculus is about fudging the figures so you don’t impinge on the new rules, but you’re riding roughshod over the spirit of them.

I know comparing humdrum finances with the multibillion pound world of football is problematic but indulge me: I say to my gf that I’m getting, I don’t know, a BMW M5. She goes mental at the sticker price. But I tell her that I intend to spread the cost over a few years, thereby reducing the burden. I then show her that I will sell the car in maybe two years, avoiding all of those pesky fuel charges, new car wax, and the new tyres I’ll have to buy. By such calculus, I’m actually making money by buying this car. The fallacy is that, emboldened by getting away with it, the next car I buy will be even more expensive, any saving I pretend to make are absorbed by the new shiny car, and I kick the can further down the road. 
 

It’s almost like the rules were deliberately written to avoid state regulation of football (‘look how responsible we are now’), without changing anything about the game (‘we’re Real Madrid and we want to buy players for massive amounts of money). Imagine that! 
 

Meanwhile, the Super League clubs are still behaving the same way as before and SkySports et al are giving it the Daffy Duck gif because we’re all back on the gravy train. A big club really needs to go bankrupt - and totally die - for us to wake up.

The concept of amortisation is quite reasonable for a business. If you think of a small company buying a van rather than a football club buying players the idea behind it is fairly straightforward. If a company wants to buy a van for 20k to do their deliveries and if they pay 20k upfront then they have a cost to the business of 20k in that year. This impacts profitability and tax. However, the company will have value from the van for 4 years and then they may sell it on. For each of the 3 years following purchase of the van the company effectively gets the use of the van for free. Rather than have the big upfront hit on the company accounts they are allowed to write the van off over the life of the van. So if the life of the van is 4 years then that costs the company 5k a year. With a van those it may have a residual value of say 8k after 4 years. So the company says it costs 20k, after 4 years it is worth 8k so it will cost us 12k over the 4 years (20-8) which is 3k a year. With football players clubs in England are not meant to allocate a residual value to a player and must amortise the full cost of the player over the term of the contract. Derby Co allocated a residual value to their players when working out their amortisation costs. They got into trouble for this. Barcelona also allocate a residual cost to their players when calculating amortisation costs

[barry'sboots]

2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

I'd have preferred to spend the Ings money on a quality no.10 to be honest.

The argument against of course is that Watkins has been injured at the start of the season and we need a quality replacement. For the remainder of the season however, I have no idea how Smith plans on fitting Ings and Watkins in the same team. The idea that we'll play a 4-4-2 when we've never played it before and we're very weak in central midfield is lost on me - I just can't see how we can play anything other than a 4-3-3 with our current squad and the balance throughout. With that being the case, Smith might have to leave one of Ings or Watkins out, an idea nobody is comfortable with.

We've signed some very good players, but the balance is off. We haven't actually brought a left winger to replace Grealish. Whether we like it or not, both Buendia and Bailey both prefer to play on the right. 

It looks a little slapdash.

As I said, whilst I rate Ings, I would have gone for something cheaper - Edouard at £14m (as I understand Palace have paid) and considerably lower wages - and sold El Ghazi for £10m + and put the difference into, say, Damsgaard.  That is if money/net spend is an issue.

I understood that Bailey is just as happy off the left but I think Buendia and Traore are firmly right sided so, when Bailey is injured as he has been, El Ghazi is our only option out left (I don't think, given his track record, that Smith will trust JPB to be a regular starter this season) and we saw how ineffective he could be at times when Jack was injured last season.

We looked good last season when Barkley (albeit very briefly) was firing at "10" but I thinks good "10"s are few and far between and I see us as more 4-3-3.

[Peter Griffin]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

 

I find the best way to describe this as buying a delivery tuck to run a delivery business. You spend initial capital on the truck but it is an asset. You think the truck will last 10 years and so the amount you paid is spread over the 10 years. So year by year the asset which is a second hand truck drops in value and that's accounted for in your financial accounts. The idea is that the asset depreciates over time. If after 3 years you then sell the asset you've "lost" 3 years of the initial 10 the Truck was to be useful for so 30% of it's value is gone and 70% is left. This is when the sale price of the asset and the book value of the asset meet. Say the truck was 100k initiall, it's now "worth" 70k in book value but you sell it for 80k. You made a 10k profit

In a way this it kind of true for footballers. They have a finite time boxed value but if you're smart you work the system in your favour. Develop your own players so there is no amortisation only wages and sign young players who's value you aim to actually increase not decrease over the life of the contract. 

I only saw this after I had written my post 

[barry'sboots]

19 hours ago, Awol said:

It’s going to be like Avengers assemble at Bodymoor next pre-season. We’ve got what, eleven young players out on loan now? Could be the reason we’ve decided not to add more this window if the staff have enough faith in them developing over the next year. 

As many have said already, I am not aware of a strong 6 in there in the Bissouma mould?  Raikhy, from what I have seen, is more of a Luiz type "6".

[CVByrne]

9 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I only saw this after I had written my post 

Great minds ;)

[useless]

Bogarde looks just as good in midfield as he does in central defence, he's probably the closest we've got to more of a traditional DM but at the same he's extremely comfortable on the ball and a good passer, he can carry the ball forward well as well. Because he's so good on the ball and confident in possesion I think he'll probably retain his ability to play in central defence or midfield as he progresses to first team football.

[Peter Griffin]

18 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Great minds ;)

or is it fools seldom differ 

[striker]

4 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Absolutely not, no. Why bother having an academy and Chukwuemeka and Ramsey there in midfield and then sign not one but two new midfielders to deny them game time. What on earth would the academy be for exactly?

Villa were trying to buy two mids one from Arsenal and the other from Southampton this window. Clearly Smith wanted one if not two so rather that use kids to plug the gap he wanted the finished article in midfield.

I agree nevertheless concerning your point on producing your own players. Villa have just sold one for 100m but there are a lot of games in the Premiership season plus cup games for those young players to be given time without being under pressure to perform to a high standard immediately.
 

I just feel that Villa may have missed a opportunity to make more rapid progress than possibly stagnating this season.

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by striker

[paul514]

Who's making the new January window thread? 

[avfc1982am]

28 minutes ago, useless said:

Bogarde looks just as good in midfield as he does in central defence, he's probably the closest we've got to more of a traditional DM but at the same he's extremely comfortable on the ball and a good passer, he can carry the ball forward well as well. Because he's so good on the ball and confident in possesion I think he'll probably retain his ability to play in central defence or midfield as he progresses to first team football.

Looks very composed from what I have seen of him and has great positional awareness. I really like him and expect him to make the step up comfortably as he grows. I'm sure I commented after the youth final last season I felt he was one of the standouts in the group. Good pedigree that one.   

[CarryOnVilla]

6 minutes ago, paul514 said:

Who's making the new January window thread? 

Who ever does it, must name it “Which defensive midfielder are we getting in January?”

[pintpotvilla]

I am so excited with the Academy players coming through now. It has never been better. We have some real top talent and a few of them will be

pushing for a 1st team place very soon, a couple already are. This club is really on the right lines. The future has never been brighter!!

[Peter Griffin]

1 hour ago, striker said:

I just feel that Villa may have missed a opportunity to make more rapid progress than possibly stagnating this season.

 

I wouldn't call bringing the youth into the 1st XI stagnating. 

[villaglint]

8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Palace remind me of how Villa were. Always hovering around the relegation area but never really at threat to go down due to very defensive tactics and the odd bit of brilliance that would grind out results.

Then they have a new manager and some good signings on paper. Their fans are probably more optimistic then they’ve been for a long while. They could be in for a suprise.

I get the comparison and it’s definitely a risky season for them hence the investment. However as a club they are run so much better than we were in the late Lerner years (as much as I try not to think about them years). 

[AV82]

6 hours ago, Made In Aston said:

Surely improving the squad AND making a profit on player sales is a good thing isn't it? 

Well said!

[barry'sboots]

21 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

I think a top CM takes us to another level. Obviously the loss of JG changed the landscape but I personally feel the CM position has been the most vital to resolve for 2 years. That doesn't mean wide players or another forward weren't important but it's just my pov. It's difficult to prioritise when there are so many variables. For instance do you improve the starting 11 or improve squad depth. We all have our own ideas, so I'm not bitching at all and as I said integrating 5 players is more than enough. 

I agree.  If you look at the top sides they all have a clear and visible pattern and structure to their play and a balanced midfield that is geared around their attacking options and their general style of play:

• Citeh - at their best when Rodri/Fernandinho sit and they have so many "8"s and "10"s that can play around him.
• Chelski - have Jorginho (European player of the year), with Kante buzzing around him and Mount as well and loads of bench options.  This works well in their 5-3-2 with attacking full backs and pace and guile up front which is only enhanced with Lukaku returning.
• Utd - have Fred and McTominay with Fernandes in front of them and Pogba possibly joining in somewhere.  They are probably shy of a better DCM option as well, that would allow Pogba to play alongside that person/have more freedom.  This area is definitely their weakest component - I think they are a strong DCM away from being real challengers.
• Liverpool - have Fabinho sitting with hard working players around him - more of a defensive 3 but allows the front three to really go for it and gives the full backs licence to flood forward.  Might change slightly with Elliot in that three.
• Leicester - have Ndidi holding with Tielemans typically alongside and a number of others, including Maddison, that can also play in a three.
• West Ham - have Rice holding with Soucek sitting alongside and a few options in front of this solid pair.

I feel like their playing styles are all much clearer and their midfields are all better balanced and structured to suit their playing style.

I am still unclear as to what we are actually looking to achieve in midfield. 

• Dougie was our star player following Restart but his form dipped badly in 2021.  He is still young though and is highly talented.  He is certainly different to the midfielder that those top 6 sides have at the base of their midfield with the possible exception of Jorginho, who is more metronomic/ball playing but benefits from having Kante alongside him. 
• SJM has looked better since the start of this season.  His partnership with Dougie looked great at the start of last season when we were hammering Liverpool and Arsenal (a) and Barkley was firing as a "10" in front of them.  I am still not sure whether he is better sitting, alongside a holder, or the furthest forward of the three.
• Nakamba is limited but probably works in games where we expect to be under the cosh BUT does not operate very well against a high press.
• Sanson - who knows.  Looks like a box to box "8" from what I have seen and could work well in tandem with SJM as two "8"s alternating duties.
• JJ has looked decent at the start of this season, but like SJM I'm not sure we know his best position as yet.  Ideally, for me, he would have gone out and got 30+ starts in the championship but we need him given the lack of signings.
• Chuk - looks a great prospect and I'm glad that he is around BUT we really can't be relying on him to start many games this season at his age.

I don't think we have a strong enough "2" in there to play behind a front 4 with Ings at "10", although maybe if Dougie and SJM can recapture their form of the early part of last season they could.  Personally, I think a CM three of Luiz; SJM and Sanson/JPB will be our "go to" midfield in a 4-3-3.  I hope that Dougie and SJM can re-capture their form of early last season or else we might be in for a tough time.

 

[Xela]

Sea of calm in here now