Relegation chase 2020/21

[sparrow1988]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

This is a team that stayed up in the last minute of last season. What points total were you expecting after 10 games?

30 would have been nice.

[useless]

The order that wins come in makes an obvious difference, winning six games in a row and then losing six in a row is obviously more worrying than wining and losing alternatively over twelve games, the latter isn't a bad run of form, but losing six games in a row is and is much more damaging to a team's confidence making it harder to win coming fixtures.

[HanoiVillan]

19 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

But if that were the case I wouldn't be making the point I am making, which is about our bad run of form. Its a that run that is pushing us down the table.

If our wins came in a different formation as you suggested, then we wouldn't be on a terrible run of form and I wouldn't be concerned.

But that isn't the case is it?

Sure . . . but we would have the same number of points. So why does it make any sense to be more concerned about one over the other?

The only possible reasons I can think of are either if you believed we are currently witnessing a collapse in morale among the team and/or a collapse in faith in the manager. If those aren't the concerns, then why be more stressed about WWWWLWLLLL than WLWLWLWLWL?

[onmeedson]

We are the congo sapeurs of the premier league , we sure look pretty but we go back to shanty town

[One For The Road]

2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Sure . . . but we would have the same number of points. So why does it make any sense to be more concerned about one over the other?

The only possible reasons I can think of are either if you believed we are currently witnessing a collapse in morale among the team and/or a collapse in faith in the manager. If those aren't the concerns, then why be more stressed about WWWWLWLLLL than WLWLWLWLWL?

Because I'm talking about current form. Thats the reason I'm concerned. It points to a slump and I'm hoping its not going to last. We really need to start winning again.

[villalad21]

21 minutes ago, TRO said:

Do you mean like WHU playing well against Man U and losing 3-1

what is done in the box, is part of the performance......if you keep missing chances to score, or gifting goals..its debatable, if you are playing well.....playing well is a subjective comment.

 

Zonal marking needs to go..

We can't do zonal marking.

If you are gonna do zonal marking you gotta mark your zone and you gotta be quick. We don't. We stand like statues, people run off us. We're ball watching.

We'd be better off at man marking. At least the players know what their job is then and when you lose your man it's on you. When we zonal mark we don't mark our zone.

Zonal marking can actually work really work if you have defenders like Van Dijk, John Terry who can anticipate danger and will attack the ball in their zonal area, but we don't anticipate.

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by villalad21

[villa4europe]

11 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

I understand that but we are currently on a run that is relegation form. That doesn't mean I think we will be relegated but the current form of 4 defeats in 5 is poor. Thats all I am saying. We need to arrest the slide at Wolves.

Not wolves IMO, lose to wolves and then get 3 on the bounce vs baggies, Burnley and Palace and we'll be back to ok, Newcastle was huge 

Can see there being a run of 5 bad games after Xmas though which will result in this thread picking up again 

[villalad21]

Just now, villa4europe said:

Can see there being a run of 5 bad games after Xmas though which will result in this thread picking up again 

Smith is a bit of a streaky manager isn't he?

[One For The Road]

Just now, villa4europe said:

Not wolves IMO, lose to wolves and then get 3 on the bounce vs baggies, Burnley and Palace and we'll be back to ok, Newcastle was huge 

Can see there being a run of 5 bad games after Xmas though which will result in this thread picking up again 

FWIW I really think we will stay up with some to spare. I'm just disappointed that we look worse than I'd hoped lately, after those 4 wins.

 

[villa4europe]

Just now, villalad21 said:

Smith is a bit of a streaky manager isn't he?

The PL is an inconsistent league

My main issue with the non believers last year was the notion that 19 teams in the PL that weren't Aston Villa could put a string of results together - in 2 years Smith has proved that he is every bit capable of putting a run together 

I hate the idea that baggies can hit some sort of mythological form that sees them catch us but it's impossible for us to hit any kind of form that would see us pull away

I'll put my cock on the block now and say the bottom 4 teams are utter dogshit and do not have a chance in hell of catching us, talk of relegation in the context of our own form is one thing but the reality is those 4 teams will do well to all finish above our 2015 embarrassment 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Zonal marking needs to go..

We can't do zonal marking.

If you are gonna do zonal marking you gotta mark your zone and you gotta be quick. We don't. We stand like statues, people run off us. We're ball watching.

We'd be better off at man marking. At least the players know what their job is then and when you lose your man it's on you. When we zonal mark we don't mark our zone.

Zonal marking can actually work really work if you have defenders like Van Dijk, John Terry who can anticipate danger and will attack the ball in their zonal area, but we don't anticipate.

 

Its a divided opinion on the type of marking......you have do what fits the personnel in your team......there are arguments for and against.

but you cannot continue with something that don't work.

[useless]

Put it like this we'd feel much more confident playing a team that's last twelve games were WWWWWWLLLLLL, than we would playing a team that's last twelve results were WLWLWLWLWLWL.

We just need to keep it real, take nothing for grante,d and keep trying to win games.

[villa4europe]

I think the hybrid zonal marking we do can work just not the way we do it 

For West hams 1st goal from memory we lined up with a zonal 3 across the 6 yard line maybe a bit deeper, those 3 were Mings, Konsa and Targett, that leaves the likes of mcginn to do the man marking

That doesnt work

We need to change that up, putting a zonal marker on the front stick to win the large number of shit corners is not a bad idea, I'm sure we've even used Benteke in that role in the past, putting a zonal marker in front of the keeper again I don't think is a bad idea, makes the attacker have to work over or around him and if he's a scrapper he can try and win 2nd balls or anything that spills

So I would put mcginn front post or right in the middle, or maybe cash, let mings and konsa man mark 

Edit - a minute after I typed that I saw a Chelsea corner vs Leeds, Leeds had Bamford as the front post zonal marker, someone had a run on him and he turned his **** back on it! Header went wide, he wanted none of it

Edited December 5, 2020 by villa4europe

[Spoony]

4 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Agree with that

The results have been bad, the performances have been OK apart from leeds

 

I’m not actually entirely on board with this. We have been so wasteful and have made stupid errors. The overall performance seems ok but when you factor in those errors and the fact we do it consistently, that’s a bit of a worry

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, useless said:

Put it like this we'd feel much more confident playing a team that's last twelve games were WWWWWWLLLLLL, than we would playing a team that's last twelve results were WLWLWLWLWLWL.

We just need to keep it real, take nothing for grante,d and keep trying to win games.

This is mostly just myth though. Your last result really doesn't tell you much about your next result. 'Mean reversion' is a thing.

 

[DCJonah]

13 hours ago, One For The Road said:

Because I'm talking about current form. Thats the reason I'm concerned. It points to a slump and I'm hoping its not going to last. We really need to start winning again.

It doesn't point to a slump. Last year when we were losing and performing badly, that was a slump. 

We've been very unlucky. With barkley back and January round the corner, I genuinely think there is nothing to worry about.

West Brom have 6 pts. We could lose the next few and still probably be well away from the relegation zone. The bottom few clubs this year are atrocious. 

[One For The Road]

23 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

It doesn't point to a slump. Last year when we were losing and performing badly, that was a slump. 

We've been very unlucky. With barkley back and January round the corner, I genuinely think there is nothing to worry about.

West Brom have 6 pts. We could lose the next few and still probably be well away from the relegation zone. The bottom few clubs this year are atrocious. 

Losing 4 in 5 absolutely does point to a slump in form for a team that had previously won 4 on the spin. I don't see how that's even remotely questionable.

[DCJonah]

23 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

Losing 4 in 5 absolutely does point to a slump in form for a team that had previously won 4 on the spin. I don't see how that's even remotely questionable.

I think just calling it a slump ignores a lot of what happened. 

The results have been worse but performances have not been anything like a relegation form team. 

[S-Platt]

We try and win every game which is miles ahead of the crap Bruce had us playing in a lower league.

We are a young team and still pretty novice to this level.   We are miles better than last year and can only get better.

There will be highs and lows, ups and downs its an exciting Roller Coaster of a season if you are a Villa fan.

Just enjoy it.

 

 

[The_Steve]

9 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I think just calling it a slump ignores a lot of what happened. 

The results have been worse but performances have not been anything like a relegation form team. 

Indeed. You'd think, reading some of these comments, we'd regressed to the Lambert years. Defeatist defensive displays regardless of scoreline, reliant on Benteke.

We were too reliant on Grealish last season (for various reasons), going through a squad rebuild, and lost two key players to injury.

Many can also see the vast improvements, especially with the defensive improvements. We've been our worst enemies, allowed teams to score when it should not have been the case. The finishing has been erratic, but the likes of Trez and Watkins work very hard and will always be threats. We were robbed against West Ham, and the Brighton goal came from a throw far from the original point of contact (not excusing the defensive high line). A lot of teams would struggle losing an influential player like Barkley after two minutes.

What it shows, as we all expected, progress isn't overnight.

We are still a much better side, equipped with the talent to punish teams, and hold onto results. It's about routing out the small errors.

The results haven't been great, but we aren't playing like a team struggling for form.

The results will start to build again.

Edited December 6, 2020 by The_Steve