One For The Road Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Just now, av1 said: Do we have to forfeit the points then? No. But it would be 5 defeats out of 6. That would mean our first 10 games could not possibly be seen as a successful start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, One For The Road said: No. But it would be 5 defeats out of 6. That would mean our first 10 games could not possibly be seen as a successful start. Even if we lose against wolves, we will be a maximum of 6 points off the top 4 with a game in hand. Dress it up however you like, that's a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zatman Posted December 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, One For The Road said: No. But it would be 5 defeats out of 6. That would mean our first 10 games could not possibly be seen as a successful start. This is a team that stayed up in the last minute of last season. What points total were you expecting after 10 games? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, One For The Road said: The issue is more about our form than anything else. City haven't lost 4 out 5 games as far as I know. Our form is awful. Everton are on a worse run than us, 1 win in 7 but still two points ahead and perception is they're still having a good season as are 8th and still looking to get into top 6. And before the posts start I'm not suggesting they'll be in relegation battle but they've spent a small fortune again this summer and so bottom half would be disaster for them which is where they're heading soon. I just think table is balancing out now compared to the mad early season fun. Man. United win at West Ham and top 6 will be Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, the two Manchester clubs and Leicester who were in it pretty much all of last season so as predictable as it gets bar Arsenal. We'll finish between 8th-12th I reckon. Anything lower would be disappointing for me as we should be at least targeting being above likes of Palace and Newcastle. They'll be the sort of teams finishing 13th and 14th. We need to turn up properly v Burnley, Palace and West Brom just like we did last season and then table in short term will look better. One other thing....I'd rather be a win one lose one type of team then have 6 draws in about 7 games as we've frequently done in premier league era and pat ourselves on an unbeaten run as the top 6 goes into the distance. Edited December 5, 2020 by VillaChris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Quote The thing that most worries me is the fact that despite playing pretty well so far and having our best players mostly available each week, we haven’t really taken full advantage. We will have worse runs of form and more injuries. If this happens soon, we will very much be in trouble. We need some wins and quick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robby b Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Since last season we've become the kings of games in hand, now we're the only team not to have got into double figures of games played. And I would love it (absolutely love it) if we beat Newcastle 7-0, in the rearranged fixture, whenever that will be. They don't have the big man up front (Honey Monster) anymore, or Alan Shearer, so that is realistically possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, robby b said: And I would love it (absolutely love it) if we beat Newcastle 7-0, in the rearranged fixture, whenever that will be. The City and Newcastle games will be late May 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) Actually way we played v West Ham is giving me more confidence for next few weeks. Man. United have been completely hopeless v them so far, West Ham should be 2 or 3 up. 3rd in the table if they win. We will do very well to finish above them. Edited December 5, 2020 by VillaChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted December 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 hour ago, One For The Road said: No. But it would be 5 defeats out of 6. That would mean our first 10 games could not possibly be seen as a successful start. A comment that demonstrates very clearly that what matters for fan perceptions of performances is not the results, but the order they arrive in. If our first ten games had been WLWLWLWLWL it would be hard to argue that was anything but very good for a side that won 9 games last season, but because in reality our wins came in a row and now the defeats are coming in a row it 'could not possibly be seen as a successful start'. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 hours ago, One For The Road said: Yeah let's ignore the fact we have lost 4 out of 5 and are sliding down the table. We were a point from going top at one point recently. We are on a terrible run and that's a fact we cannot ignore. The game at Wolves is massive. Lose that and our good start will be officially wiped out. Its not a popular thing to do, to talk about defeats....its only wins that are palatable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Its not a popular thing to do, to talk about defeats....its only wins that are palatable. I think there’s a way of talking about defeats that also acknowledges performances. I don’t agree that we’ve played well when we win and badly when we lose. If anything we were better in the Brighton and West Ham game than in some of the games we’ve won this season. Its annoying to have lost 4 out of 5 but in two of those defeats we outplayed the opposition. It’s a worrying set of results but I’m not particularly worried by the performances. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zatman said: This is a team that stayed up in the last minute of last season. What points total were you expecting after 10 games? For the umpteenth time, its not the points total it's the run of bad form I am talking about. Edited December 5, 2020 by One For The Road 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, VillaChris said: Everton are on a worse run than us, 1 win in 7 but still two points ahead and perception is they're still having a good season as are 8th and still looking to get into top 6. And before the posts start I'm not suggesting they'll be in relegation battle but they've spent a small fortune again this summer and so bottom half would be disaster for them which is where they're heading soon. I just think table is balancing out now compared to the mad early season fun. Man. United win at West Ham and top 6 will be Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, the two Manchester clubs and Leicester who were in it pretty much all of last season so as predictable as it gets bar Arsenal. We'll finish between 8th-12th I reckon. Anything lower would be disappointing for me as we should be at least targeting being above likes of Palace and Newcastle. They'll be the sort of teams finishing 13th and 14th. We need to turn up properly v Burnley, Palace and West Brom just like we did last season and then table in short term will look better. One other thing....I'd rather be a win one lose one type of team then have 6 draws in about 7 games as we've frequently done in premier league era and pat ourselves on an unbeaten run as the top 6 goes into the distance. I think we have a similar problem to Everton.....too easy to beat at times. "We need to turn up properly".... is a sign of whats wrong ,consistency....but thats where draws come in handy.....in becoming more difficult to beat, is a nifty tag to have on the way to improving consistency. Losing is inevitable.......but We lose too easily. Edited December 5, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 28 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: A comment that demonstrates very clearly that what matters for fan perceptions of performances is not the results, but the order they arrive in. If our first ten games had been WLWLWLWLWL it would be hard to argue that was anything but very good for a side that won 9 games last season, but because in reality our wins came in a row and now the defeats are coming in a row it 'could not possibly be seen as a successful start'. But if that were the case I wouldn't be making the point I am making, which is about our bad run of form. Its a that run that is pushing us down the table. If our wins came in a different formation as you suggested, then we wouldn't be on a terrible run of form and I wouldn't be concerned. But that isn't the case is it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, tom_avfc said: I think there’s a way of talking about defeats that also acknowledges performances. I don’t agree that we’ve played well when we win and badly when we lose. If anything we were better in the Brighton and West Ham game than in some of the games we’ve won this season. Its annoying to have lost 4 out of 5 but in two of those defeats we outplayed the opposition. It’s a worrying set of results but I’m not particularly worried by the performances. Do you mean like WHU playing well against Man U and losing 3-1 what is done in the box, is part of the performance......if you keep missing chances to score, or gifting goals..its debatable, if you are playing well.....playing well is a subjective comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, One For The Road said: But if that were the case I wouldn't be making the point I am making, which is about our bad run of form. Its a that run that is pushing us down the table. If our wins came in a different formation as you suggested, then we wouldn't be on a terrible run of form and I wouldn't be concerned. But that isn't the case is it? Unfortunately you're making a comment about poor form in a thread about relegation so it's easy to mistake you as linking the 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted December 5, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 hours ago, One For The Road said: The issue is more about our form than anything else. City haven't lost 4 out 5 games as far as I know. Our form is awful. I don't agree it's awful, we played well enough to take points from most of those games apart from Leeds. For me awful from is being well beaten every week and not even looking like you can get points. Yes the defeats are not good but we could have easily got the odd win or draw amongst them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Unfortunately you're making a comment about poor form in a thread about relegation so it's easy to mistake you as linking the 2 I understand that but we are currently on a run that is relegation form. That doesn't mean I think we will be relegated but the current form of 4 defeats in 5 is poor. Thats all I am saying. We need to arrest the slide at Wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, sidcow said: I don't agree it's awful, we played well enough to take points from most of those games apart from Leeds. For me awful from is being well beaten every week and not even looking like you can get points. Yes the defeats are not good but we could have easily got the odd win or draw amongst them. 4 defeats in 5 is awful form. I'm talking about form in terms of results and not performances. Its results that matter ultimately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: A comment that demonstrates very clearly that what matters for fan perceptions of performances is not the results, but the order they arrive in. If our first ten games had been WLWLWLWLWL it would be hard to argue that was anything but very good for a side that won 9 games last season, but because in reality our wins came in a row and now the defeats are coming in a row it 'could not possibly be seen as a successful start'. I think if we win the next game the concern will cease.....but we don't know that, it could be another defeat. The league table covers a much broader period, so it follows a broader view will be gleaned.....The form table is a much more accurate medium for second guessing the next result, if that is ever possible. I think the biggest concern with some of us is.....when we are not quite at it, is to stay in a game and nick a point......grind something out. The contrast in results is a concern in my view.....but I also think there are tell tale signs as to why, there must be a reason for this. We can't win every game, but we are losing too easily, in the ones we do. Ps. OGS just said on Sky.......I don't care about performance its just about results....and that Man U. Edited December 5, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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