The AVFC FFP thread

[ROTTERDAM1982]

If we go up, then as far as I understand, we will have no issues with FFP, if we don't then we sell Jack, hence him signing a new 5 year deal.He did as he said, and we owe him, and that should rectify the FFP situation, the go out and buy Exe from QPR 

[snowychap]

12 hours ago, John said:

I think we need to trust that our new owners do have a cunning plan to get around FFP if we are stuck down here again next season. They didn't get where they are today by gambling everything on one throw of a dice. As Bud Flanagan once said "No dog can run as fast as the money you bet on him." 

[OutByEaster?]

It's easy in a way to say we've passed up on John Terry because we're paying £70k a week to Bolassie, it's dramatic and apolcalyptic - it sounds better when you say we've got Bolassie for Gabby's wages and £10k a week.

 

[Skills]

when's the latest we could sell a player that would hit this years books?  is it Jan window or is it in June sometime?

[mikeyjavfc]

4 hours ago, Skills said:

when's the latest we could sell a player that would hit this years books?  is it Jan window or is it in June sometime?

It would have to be Jan. From memory FFP is now assessed in April time, with the financials for the rest of the season being forecasted by the club. This is to give the EFL time to punish clubs before the end of the season to stop them ‘escaping’ via promotion or similar.

[Raver50032]

So assuming we are <cough-cough> 'there or thereabouts' in January, it's possible our pants could still be pulled down by the EFL before the season ends if we are deemed to be in the poo-poo?

I'm starting to lose interest now. The sooner football all blows up in its own face the better, then we can all start again.

[LakotaDakota]

what about option C for next season, completely overspend by 200 million, Win the league finishing 40 points ahead of third place and just laugh at the 20 point+ deduction

[villa89]

11 hours ago, Raver50032 said:

I'm starting to lose interest now. The sooner football all blows up in its own face the better, then we can all start again.

I wouldn't expect that to happen anytime soon. 

[VillaChris]

On 25/09/2018 at 20:48, OutByEaster? said:

It's easy in a way to say we've passed up on John Terry because we're paying £70k a week to Bolassie, it's dramatic and apolcalyptic - it sounds better when you say we've got Bolassie for Gabby's wages and £10k a week.

 

Weren't Gabby's wages halved when we went down and he was "only" on 25-30k a week in the end.

I personally think it's madness to pay 70k a week to any player in the second tier. Wolves and Newcastle did it of course but then they actually remembered to win enough matches to get automatically promoted, we still have to master that one.

[JamesBCFC]

On 25/09/2018 at 16:28, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

If we go up, then as far as I understand, we will have no issues with FFP, if we don't then we sell Jack, hence him signing a new 5 year deal.He did as he said, and we owe him, and that should rectify the FFP situation, the go out and buy Exe from QPR 

With it now so that the current seasons accounts have to be forecasted, just being top 2 won't be enough this season if you fall foul of FFP, so a promotion place isn't an easy escape anymore.

 

Hopefully the current Birmingham case will see them get hit hard, and then we have a strong precedent set for any other clubs who decide to breach FFP.

However, the EFL have historically had a backbone about as rigid as jelly, so my breath is not being held.

[KHV]

2 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Weren't Gabby's wages halved when we went down and he was "only" on 25-30k a week in the end.

I personally think it's madness to pay 70k a week to any player in the second tier. Wolves and Newcastle did it of course but then they actually remembered to win enough matches to get automatically promoted, we still have to master that one.

Yeah Gabby had a 50% drop in wages. All our wages are mad. Any club paying more than 50k per week for the likes of Bree and Lansbury combined deserves a points deduction.

[PieFacE]

I honestly think FFP is a bit shit. I think if an owner is willing to chuck money at a club they should be allowed to, providing they inject enough personal capital into the club to ensure that it can't collapse on itself. 

But, I fully appreciate that my view might be different if we didn't have mega rich owners. 

[JamesBCFC]

26 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

I honestly think FFP is a bit shit. I think if an owner is willing to chuck money at a club they should be allowed to, providing they inject enough personal capital into the club to ensure that it can't collapse on itself. 

But, I fully appreciate that my view might be different if we didn't have mega rich owners. 

Isn't that the core issue though?

Many owners won't do that.

Its rare to actually make money as a football club owner, and being an owner is a quick route to spending a fortune.

Many of the richer owners outside the Premier League are someone who wants to see the team promoted and sell for more than they paid. Injecting all the money necessary to ensure the clubs stability means they have to recoup more money at the end.

 

21 clubs fail at going up each season, after a while said rich owner will want a way out. If they have injected a tonne of money they are going to be at a huge loss regardless.

 

I believe this is partly why our owner has changed tack. In 2010 we signed Then England goalkeeper David James, which for a 'small club' in the Championship was quite a statement. In reality we were paying a fortune for someone who just wasn't interested. We slowly finished lower and lower every season before the inevitable relegation, at which point our wage bill for players alone was something like 110% of the clubs announced turnover.

5 years on from that relegation and we are back in the Championship, in a position 10x better than before. Stadium redeveloped and a brand new £100m complex about to be built for a Basketball arena, hotels and housing. (We have a somewhat unique structure- for U.K. clubs- where Lansdown owns multiple sports clubs under the umbrella of Bristol Sport, which also includes the Women's team, Bristol Bears (formerly Bristol Rugby), and Bristol Flyers (Basketball), but because it is all under Bristol Sport, Bristol City are able to use their income as additional for ourselves).

We are fortunate however to have one of the few owners who would underwrite the extortionate losses we were making, and now he has invested a not insignificant amount in getting the Club into a position where it can support itself, though that doesn't mean he won't put some money in for transfers.

 

As a comparison, Bristol Rovers had a new owner after their relegation to the Conference in 2014, a "billionaire" making them the "6th richest club in the country"*.

The total amount he has put into the club is probably less than what we paid for our record signing (£5.3m). 

A few of our fans had looked at the accounts of Rovers, and I think they have predicted the end of next season as the point they enter administration, all the owner has done is take out loans against various assets and sign free transfers.

*actual claims made by their fans and our local journos.

 

 

Now it could be said that Steve Lansdown and the Rovers owner are at the opposite end of a spectrum*. But IMO most of the 'rich foreign owners' we see coming in now are nearer the latter than the former.

*We're probably helped with the fact Lansdown is from Bristol, rather than a foreign owner who'd never heard of us before he wanted a football club as a toy.

 

I personally like the way we are going about things now, and while it isn't perfect, I think FFP is a reasonable idea despite having a mega rich owner. 

I wouldn't wish for any club to go bust, but IMO that is what needs to happen before fans (in a broad sense) and football club owners wake up.

I do want the TV money bubble to burst though, and sadly I suspect there would be a few clubs who would be casualties if/when that happens.

[Stuartc445]

6 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

With it now so that the current seasons accounts have to be forecasted, just being top 2 won't be enough this season if you fall foul of FFP, so a promotion place isn't an easy escape anymore.

 

Hopefully the current Birmingham case will see them get hit hard, and then we have a strong precedent set for any other clubs who decide to breach FFP.

However, the EFL have historically had a backbone about as rigid as jelly, so my breath is not being held.

Birmingham City are going to be hit hard because they ignored the embargo,  had they not done that they might have gotten away with a lighter punishment.

[hooter]

2 hours ago, Stuartc445 said:

Birmingham City are going to be hit hard because they ignored the embargo,  had they not done that they might have gotten away with a lighter punishment.

Done to death, sliding scale based on how far they've driven a horse and cart though the numbers, with add on for being cheeky **** and signing Pedersen.

Your fate lies in the extent to which the number, once projected in the Spring, for this season and the last two, exceeds allowable levels.

It is now very formulaic as I understand it.

I'm sure your owners have a plan, many others will be watching it and it's success no doubt. 

 

 

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Maybe off topic.

However just looking at a list of Richest owners.

Did anyone realise the Barnsley owners are worth 8 billion plus and wonder how and when the f*ck that happened?

[terrytini]

So....we have a “ financial clean slate” apparently ? Very interesting indeed.

I wonder how they did that.

[romavillan]

5 minutes ago, terrytini said:

So....we have a “ financial clean slate” apparently ? Very interesting indeed.

I wonder how they did that.

Very interesting, as was Purslow's comment about being on the board that drew up the FFP rules. Hopefully he inserted a Purslow sized loophole we can squeeze AVFC through and still invest in January. I'm amazed that he said that Smith would be free in Jan to address the problems with the squad as he'd be backed financially. He was saying we could do that and still be in line with FFP,  I don't think anyone saw that coming.

[Dodgyknees]

Interesting comments indeed.

[Jareth]

Must be confident to say that, I think there be some large sponsorships incoming.