richp999 Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 56 minutes ago, Platt Ain’t Fat said: Am I right in thinking things like stadium sponsorship the benchmark is that it has to represent fair market value? If so does Man City’s Etihad deal of 10 years ago not set that precedent. Also is there anything to stop the new owners transferring the entire playing staff wage burden to one of the cement companies for example. I.e “all of our players work for Acme Cement” I’m sure there is mind. This is one of the ways to reduce your outgoings in regards ffp, and I'm sure they are doing it. In fact we may have started months ago.. I'm sure all the catering etc is now 'outsourced'.. This may be due to business strategy, but may also help ffp. I'd outsource the entire villa staff to an 'outside' company, which is funded externally by the owners.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooter Posted August 10, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, richp999 said: This is one of the ways to reduce your outgoings in regards ffp, and I'm sure they are doing it. In fact we may have started months ago.. I'm sure all the catering etc is now 'outsourced'.. This may be due to business strategy, but may also help ffp. I'd outsource the entire villa staff to an 'outside' company, which is funded externally by the owners.. "outsourcing" your catering reduces revenue, and really doesn't help. See LUFC post bates. What it actually means is you've taken a payment back then on the condition the lender gets the revenue now. Xia sold future revenues, as did bates with us. They have gone. I could probably even tell you the name of the company you've "outsourced" to if I could search through e-mails, they've done it with loads of clubs, Glasgow Rangers for instance a few years back...it's Wonga for skint clubs, not some clever play... Edited August 10, 2018 by hooter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, alreadyexists said: It is a bit confusing how our new owners don’t seem to be too worried about it all. We heard that ‘we couldn’t afford free transfers’ in the media in early June. Then we can buy new players and loan players and pay wages, and offer new contracts now... it is a bit of a puzzle that I don’t understand. Perhaps they’re just business sharks that are doing a bit of ‘don’t blink first’ stuff. But I doubt that, they must have a plan? I think they do have a plan. Bruce seems utterly unconcerned now, vs the existential terror he was talking about before we got bought. We know the club are talking to the crooks at the EFL who run FFP scam and even they seem perfectly happy with our go forward plans imho a combimation of 1.) Dr Xia didnt have or couldnt get money out of China. Our new owner has proven he has deep pockets and has shared a plan thats good enough for the EFL. 2.) Our slashed wages / costs (there were cost cuts at the club this summer outside of players, (Bruce mentioned AVTV got cuts) get us close enough to what FFP's ludicrious rules require . Has satisfied all parties. For now at least. Edited August 10, 2018 by ciggiesnbeer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Platt Ain’t Fat said: Am I right in thinking things like stadium sponsorship the benchmark is that it has to represent fair market value? If so does Man City’s Etihad deal of 10 years ago not set that precedent. Also is there anything to stop the new owners transferring the entire playing staff wage burden to one of the cement companies for example. I.e “all of our players work for Acme Cement” I’m sure there is mind. I think that falls under the third party ownership rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said: I think they do have a plan. Bruce seems utterly unconcerned now, vs the existential terror he was talking about before we got bought. We know the club are talking to the crooks at the EFL who run FFP scam and even they seem perfectly happy with our go forward plans imho a combimation of 1.) Dr Xia didnt have or couldnt get money out of China. Our new owner has proven he has deep pockets and has shared a plan thats good enough for the EFL. 2.) Our slashed wages / costs (there were cost cuts at the club this summer outside of players, (Bruce mentioned AVTV got cuts) get us close enough to what FFP's ludicrious rules require . Has satisfied all parties. For now at least. And some exec in the EFL has now got a lifetime supply of free Adidas trainers.... Edited August 10, 2018 by TheStagMan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platt Ain’t Fat Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Forgot about 3rd party ownership good point! on naming rights for the stadium I’m sure Man City’s was £40m a year for 10 years and they weren’t as successful as they now are plus 10 years of inflation so don’t know why we couldn’t remove the FFP burden at a stroke with a similar deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysAVFC Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 49 minutes ago, hooter said: "outsourcing" your catering reduces revenue, and really doesn't help. See LUFC post bates. What it actually means is you've taken a payment back then on the condition the lender gets the revenue now. Xia sold future revenues, as did bates with us. They have gone. I could probably even tell you the name of the company you've "outsourced" to if I could search through e-mails, they've done it with loads of clubs, Glasgow Rangers for instance a few years back...it's Wonga for skint clubs, not some clever play... Slightly off topic as I don’t know if it is good or bad for FFP but out sourcing Catering is pretty normal though. It’s always high on the list of things Xia gets criticised for and he may have had reasons to do it but a quick fire through off the top of my head just from premier league Arsenal, Chelsea, Brighton, Leicester, Spurs, Fulham, Wolves, Cardiff, Huddersfield, West Ham all have contract caterers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted August 10, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 10, 2018 28 minutes ago, AlwaysAVFC said: Slightly off topic as I don’t know if it is good or bad for FFP but out sourcing Catering is pretty normal though. It’s always high on the list of things Xia gets criticised for and he may have had reasons to do it but a quick fire through off the top of my head just from premier league Arsenal, Chelsea, Brighton, Leicester, Spurs, Fulham, Wolves, Cardiff, Huddersfield, West Ham all have contract caterers. Depends on how it's done. The implication was that he has sold off years of future revenues for up front payments. That's different to just contracting out your catering. I don't myself know which it is, but that was the accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 When EFL chiefs shows up to punish us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicVillan Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Platt Ain’t Fat said: Also is there anything to stop the new owners transferring the entire playing staff wage burden to one of the cement companies for example. I.e “all of our players work for Acme Cement” I’m sure there is mind. Also is there anything stopping ACME Cement from sponsoring Richards and McCormack in a new boot deal thus reducing the financial burden even further. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkasaurus Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Does anyone understand how FFP works with academy graduates? As far as I have heard there is a calculation used for player signings vs contract length to determine the value of a player in accounting terms. (Transfer fee / Years left on contract) How does this apply to academy graduates, that had no transfer fee, converted into FFP value? Or have I got this completely wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted August 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 11, 2018 5 hours ago, CosmicVillan said: Also is there anything stopping ACME Cement from sponsoring Richards and McCormack in a new boot deal thus reducing the financial burden even further. You mean that they weren’t already playing in cement boots?! Could have fooled me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richp999 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, arkasaurus said: Does anyone understand how FFP works with academy graduates? As far as I have heard there is a calculation used for player signings vs contract length to determine the value of a player in accounting terms. (Transfer fee / Years left on contract) How does this apply to academy graduates, that had no transfer fee, converted into FFP value? Or have I got this completely wrong? The academy is one of the areas that is not included in ffp at all, so you can spend what you like on it. If you sell an academy graduate, then you can include the sale in your ffp figures. So its a real positive for the club in terms of FFP, and of course in future players. This is one of the reasons man city have such a huge investment in thier academy I believe - none of the costs of it count to FFP but they now sell a fair few players each year at pretty decent fees ;probably enough to cover one large scale first team signing. Was talking to a guy at work who was a man city fan and had a friend taking thier kids up for a trial at the academy this weekend.. At the age of 6! Apparently they have accommodation thier for the families, even a private school.. All newly built.. A pretty impressive setup. Edited August 11, 2018 by richp999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted August 11, 2018 8 hours ago, arkasaurus said: Does anyone understand how FFP works with academy graduates? As far as I have heard there is a calculation used for player signings vs contract length to determine the value of a player in accounting terms. (Transfer fee / Years left on contract) How does this apply to academy graduates, that had no transfer fee, converted into FFP value? Or have I got this completely wrong? Because they cost nothing, if they are sold, the full price is counted as pure profit. Until they are sold they have no FFP “value”. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 1 hour ago, blandy said: Because they cost nothing, if they are sold, the full price is counted as pure profit. Until they are sold they have no FFP “value”. Correct. Internally generated asset, innit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyjavfc Posted August 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 11, 2018 17 hours ago, The Fun Factory said: FFP is overated. Their early stuff was better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 17 hours ago, alreadyexists said: It is a bit confusing how our new owners don’t seem to be too worried about it all. We heard that ‘we couldn’t afford free transfers’ in the media in early June. Then we can buy new players and loan players and pay wages, and offer new contracts now... it is a bit of a puzzle that I don’t understand. Perhaps they’re just business sharks that are doing a bit of ‘don’t blink first’ stuff. But I doubt that, they must have a plan? I think FFP was being used as an excuse by fake Tony to cover up the fact he was broke. The reality is our FFP situation probably isn't half as bad as was being made out. I have absolutely no concerns about meeting our obligations as, when your family is worth £32 bn, you have massive influence and tend to get what your want one way or another. FFP is a fly in the ointment to NS. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sne Posted August 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2018 Perhaps we can do like Mexican side Chivas and use a little subtle product placement during the pressers to increase our income? 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted August 13, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, sne said: Perhaps we can do like Mexican side Chivas and use a little subtle product placement during the pressers to increase our income? It’s that subtle I can’t even see it... but suddenly have the urge to buy some granola, Coca Cola and milkshake and have no idea why? Also, maybe a moustache. But I am undecided. Edited August 13, 2018 by villan-scott 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 3 hours ago, villan-scott said: It’s that subtle I can’t even see it... but suddenly have the urge to buy some granola, Coca Cola and milkshake and have no idea why? Also, maybe a moustache. But I am undecided. It's technically a goatee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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