Don_Simon Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 11 minutes ago, The_Steve said: There's no fitter player in the squad than Ollie. The game is a learning curve for him. United bullied and kicked him across the park, he didn't get the protection from the referee. That header was a big miss. He also created a great chance for Troare in the first half. Ollie would benefit running off the centre forward into the space, United effectively blocked those channels. He will come away a stronger player. It was one of those games. How do you know he's the fittest player? Have Villa released fitness test results I've not seen? He is the centre forward. Who do you drop to have Watkins play wide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) He works his bollox off every match but gets very little help in the final third... Really misses Grealish not playing wide left. Our current front 3 are kind of playing "backwards" in that the striker is running his nuts off, creating space, closing down defenders, etc.. and the wingers don't seem to contribute much yet score tap-ins. It should be the other way round. Edited January 1, 2021 by jimmygreaves 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 29 minutes ago, poitier said: He has to score that header. In other games his overall contribution has deflected criticism of his misses, but not tonight. Thought both were pretty tough chances tbh - one is floated and he has to generate power across it to beat De Gea (who saves) the other has Bailly holding him down a bit while he has to flick it with pace into the corner. Neither of those are easy chances. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) I think someone who is atuned to centre forward play needs to work with him, in training. I like Ollie i really do, but right now, he seems to have the instincts of a winger, not a centre forward or striker.....today, he didn't look like scoring, he looked like he lacked belief. in that role, you have to make things happen, by intelligent running or physically disrupting the defender.....I am not asking him to be Andy Gray, but he needs to up his aggression and conviction.....Andy was not great technically , but he knew how to score goals and always believed he would, when he went out.....Ollie needs a bit of that......Vardy is the same, in the sense of moving around, playing on the shoulder and then dropping off, making runs and competing physically for the ball. Ollie cannot rely on the ball just put on a plate or just hitting his head, he had to attack it....he has to work for the ball and demand it like Jack does. its not, just him not scoring goals per se, its his approach play to him looking like scoring too.....i guess its confidence, but when your confidence is low, is the time show more conviction to help make things happen. Edited January 1, 2021 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooJung Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 1 hour ago, VillaChris said: What were the misses? Only one I can remember is header at the end but it came through players and he probably didn't expect Wan Bisakka to miss it given he did that mad clearence to deny AEG. Another header in the first half from close range, saved by de gea, not the easiest chance, but a good chance nonetheless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 1 minute ago, WooJung said: Another header in the first half from close range, saved by de gea, not the easiest chance, but a good chance nonetheless My feed must've cut out at that point, have no recollection of that one at all! He did miss another header from FK I've just recalled but of the two Mings one was easier to score given he was more central. Actually I think you're on about the one early second half. Again he does the right thing trying to head it back in direction of cross and over De Gea but very difficult to get perfectly. De Gea also made it more of a spectacular save than should've been. There are chances but not sitters. If he was coming up with finishes like Trez did in the Brighton and West Ham games I'd be more concerned. He's good. Our next trick is to find a striker as good as him to completment him in the squad as we don't have one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooJung Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Just now, VillaChris said: My feed must've cut out at that point, have no recollection of that one at all! He did miss another header from FK I've just recalled but of the two Mings one was easier to score given he was more central. Actually I think you're on about the one early second half. Again he does the right thing trying to head it back in direction of cross and over De Gea but very difficult to get perfectly. De Gea also made it more of a spectacular save than should've been. There are chances but not sitters. If he was coming up with finishes like Trez did in the Brighton and West Ham games I'd be more concerned. He's good. Our next trick is to find a striker as good as him to completment him in the squad as we don't have one. Sure, but you would expect a 30+ million striker not to only score sitters. I like watkins and he's been unlucky with var (don't we just love it eh?) but I think it's fair to expect more end product for that money. Which I think we will see as he adapts to the premier league. But scoring from open play in 2 games out of 15 is a bit disappointing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bose Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Needs a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Too often he waits for the ball to come to him instead of anticipating what is going to happen. I think it's fair enough that he's gassed as he does a lot of work and plays 90 minutes every game. He could do with a break but won't get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, VillaChris said: My feed must've cut out at that point, have no recollection of that one at all! He did miss another header from FK I've just recalled but of the two Mings one was easier to score given he was more central. Actually I think you're on about the one early second half. Again he does the right thing trying to head it back in direction of cross and over De Gea but very difficult to get perfectly. De Gea also made it more of a spectacular save than should've been. There are chances but not sitters. If he was coming up with finishes like Trez did in the Brighton and West Ham games I'd be more concerned. He's good. Our next trick is to find a striker as good as him to completment him in the squad as we don't have one. But he can't keep relying on sitters....they are the cherry on the cake. i want to see him score , where he has had to fight for the ball.....those are the ones hat restore confidence.....sitters just paper over the cracks. running alone, will not make him the player we want, he has to run with intelligence and out wit defenders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, WooJung said: Sure, but you would expect a 30+ million striker not to only score sitters. I like watkins and he's been unlucky with var (don't we just love it eh?) but I think it's fair to expect more end product for that money. Which I think we will see as he adapts to the premier league. But scoring from open play in 2 games out of 15 is a bit disappointing. We need to put him through a bit more, the second he scored at Arsenal shows he's more than capable of dinking one over keeper one on one but we've seen very few occasions of him even getting that chance in other games. He's doing alright, two VAR goals get given and he has 8 from 15 games. Even 6 from 15 isn't that awful and he's contributing plenty to link up play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 26 minutes ago, WooJung said: Another header in the first half from close range, saved by de gea, not the easiest chance, but a good chance nonetheless He missed another one too, not on target, easier to score, its the one where jack looked pissed off, when the camera went on him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, TRO said: I think someone who is atuned to centre forward play needs to work with him, in training. I like Ollie i really do, but right now, he seems to have the instincts of a winger, not a centre forward or striker.....today, he didn't look like scoring, he looked like he lacked belief. in that role, you have to make things happen, by intelligent running or physically disrupting the defender.....I am not asking him to be Andy Gray, but he needs to up his aggression and conviction.....Andy was not great technically , but he knew how to score goals and always believed he would, when he went out.....Ollie needs a bit of that......Vardy is the same, in the sense of moving around, playing on the shoulder and then dropping off, making runs and competing physically for the ball. Ollie cannot rely on the ball just put on a plate or just hitting his head, he had to attack it....he has to work for the ball and demand it like Jack does. its not, just him not scoring goals per se, its his approach play to him looking like scoring too.....i guess its confidence, but when your confidence is low, is the time show more conviction to help make things happen. Spot on for me. He seems to lack that fearsome edge to his game... too nice almost when it comes to chances. He should be breaking his neck to get in front of the defender on that one chance tonight but instead kind of just lingers and hopes it will fall perfectly for him thus making it an easy clearance for the defender. He needs Peter Withe in to coach him on how to add that final but crucial edge. There is a player there but he has some way to go still. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, TRO said: Vardy is the same, in the sense of moving around, playing on the shoulder and then dropping off, making runs and competing physically for the ball. Good thought. He needs to watch hours of top forwards like Vardy and see the areas to move to when up front on your own. No doubt in my mind Ollie is working harder for less return right now. He's higher up than Vardy was at the same age though. Poor today, he's shattered. Bench definitely v Liverpool. Maybe final 30 mins to try get him a goal. Our XI in that game is going to be funny. Edited January 1, 2021 by Tomaszk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, VillaChris said: We need to put him through a bit more, the second he scored at Arsenal shows he's more than capable of dinking one over keeper one on one but we've seen very few occasions of him even getting that chance in other games. He's doing alright, two VAR goals get given and he has 8 from 15 games. Even 6 from 15 isn't that awful and he's contributing plenty to link up play. But he has to be valued by how much he he is pulling the centre backs around, he has to be working in and out of them, messing them about......watch Ings do it. He needs to study Ings play and see how he makes it look easy.......its movement, in the box......not just running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: Good thought. He needs to watch hours of top forwards like Vardy and see the areas to move to when up front on your own. No doubt in my mind Ollie is working harder for less return right now. He's higher up than Vardy was at the same age though. Poor today, he's shattered. Bench definitely v Liverpool. Maybe final 30 mins to try get him a goal. Our XI in that game is going to be funny. No one is questioning his hard work.....he needs to turn it in to clever/ smarter work. He needs to work smarter, not harder. Edited January 1, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, TRO said: But he has to be valued by how much he he is pulling the centre backs around, he has to be working in and out of them, messing them about......watch Ings do it. He needs to study Ings play and see how he makes it look easy.......its movement, in the box......not just running. Ings movement is good and I'd certainly agree he has a far more ruthless streak in finishing than Ollie has at this moment. However while Southampton don't have a Grealish getting in Walcott was actually an inspired move as him and Che Adams either side can create a fair bit more space for the central striker to move into. It's something we still need to figure out a bit in the final third. More concerned he's going to be completely done in by April with all the minutes he's played so far so think fatigue rather than ability is the biggest problem second half of the season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, danceoftheshamen said: Spot on for me. He seems to lack that fearsome edge to his game... too nice almost when it comes to chances. He should be breaking his neck to get in front of the defender on that one chance tonight but instead kind of just lingers and hopes it will fall perfectly for him thus making it an easy clearance for the defender. He needs Peter Withe in to coach him on how to add that final but crucial edge. There is a player there but he has some way to go still. He lacks urgency and conviction, on tonights play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 2, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 2, 2021 I really like him. I think he's in the team for a lot more than just scoring goals and he's excellent at it. But no doubt he needs to improve his goalscoring to be the striker that we need him to be. He's had some bad luck recently but he's also had some poor finishes. I'm confident it will come. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: Good thought. He needs to watch hours of top forwards like Vardy and see the areas to move to when up front on your own. No doubt in my mind Ollie is working harder for less return right now. He's higher up than Vardy was at the same age though. Poor today, he's shattered. Bench definitely v Liverpool. Maybe final 30 mins to try get him a goal. Our XI in that game is going to be funny. Squad players need to be trusted, they haven't let us down so far this season have they? Liverpool got Man. United in two weeks. Way it's going they'll be down to 2nd/3rd by the time they play that so next to no chance Klopp is going to play any major player in that, all of their front three will be rested imo. Will likely be a B/C team from them. Would also be a disaster to lose Jack for Spurs game if he gets booked so he's another I'd be tempted to bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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