Ollie Watkins

[Bazmonkey]

Watkins in his first season has done well so far especially in his work rate.

The problem with goals is he doesn't fit our play yet.

At Brentford he had benrahma and the other chap...cant think of his name...running forward with the ball and playing him in....bit like his goal at arsenal.

Unfortunately we don't play like that and we rely on crosses from wide...look at how many back post goals we have.

Now you could argue he should be there but overall he is not the right fit for us now. He is often alone up top bringing down Mings 60 yard hoofs....its tough. 

I think if grealish played more central he would get more goals because he could play on the shoulder...but grealish is often out wide with the other winger so that leaves him in the box waiting for the cross.

Hopefully when barkley comes back we can have that player to play more central which would suit him better.

The goals will come....Palace was unlucky but he is trying and you can't fault that

[Dave-R]

18 hours ago, cheltenham_villa said:

Of course he has things to work on, pretty much everyone does. I just wouldnt change the type of striker he is though. While he may not be directly contributing goals, everything hes doing off the ball is massively helping the team.

If you stop him running, he may be more successful personally but I'm not sure we will be as a team.

I think your both right, yet Watkins has to save something in the Tank, cant keep running himself out like that, he needs something towards the end of the match or for the next matches. Hes a very fit lad yes but everyone gets tired, we could do with another like him where we could change Watkins during game for who can maybe finish the job on a team or vice versa.

It looks as though that we are trying to increase on field energy and stamina, especially the way Leeds got to us. I think Smith may have seen we need more in the tank but that also needs to happen with depth and rotation.

If Watkins keeps running around like a hooligan like that every game, then we will have a dead striker before the season is done who needs a battery change. Now is the time to bring someone in and make it count, we do not know when Wes and Ross will be back, so I'm hoping we find a new striker to aid Watkins.

There is also that teams are setting up for Watkins, they watch how he is on field and know we are relying on one striker, it's not as big a headache as it would be with a second striker.. We need to give them more to think about in that area and keep them guessing, a second striker who is fast but plays differently wouldn't go a miss, so we can change the way we play at attack.

[Tom13]

Great work rate, very skilful at times.

However, he is so frustrating to watch. He's not great at passing, is often slow to react to the path of the ball, and his reading of the game is so far behind the likes of Grealish.

Plenty of room for improvement though.

[sne]

Glass half full we are creating good scoring opportunities and I honestly think the goals will come, and the work rate is essential to how we play.

Quote

Chelsea's Timo Werner is 4th in the Premier League for most big chances missed this season

Big chances missed

=6. Marcus Rashford (Manchester United) - 7

=6. Oliver McBurnie (Sheffield United) - 7

=6. Sadio Mane (Liverpool) - 7

=6. Roberto Firmino (Liverpool) - 7

=6. Che Adams (Southampton) - 7

=4. Dominic Calvert-Lewin - 8 

=4. Timo Werner (Chelsea) - 8

3. Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa) - 10

=1. Chris Wood (Burnley) - 12

=1. Patrick Bamford (Leeds United) - 12

https://www.givemesport.com/1634849-chelseas-timo-werner-is-4th-in-the-premier-league-for-most-big-chances-missed-this-season

[Zatman]

He has scored the same amount of goals from open play as Vardy and 2 less than Kane and Salah 

[VillanousOne]

I really find it odd that some people are questioning his ability/role. He is still learning and adapting to the Prem.

Is there another young striker who has come into the Premier League and done as well as he has? People compare him to Callum Wilson who is older and has prem league experience.

I think he has done brilliantly and will soon get back on the goals sheet, just hope the lack of goals doesn't affect his confidence.

again not saying he is immune to criticism, but for me he has only had a couple of average games since he has been here.

[PaulC]

1 minute ago, VillanousOne said:

I really find it odd that some people are questioning his ability/role. He is still learning and adapting to the Prem.

Is there another young striker who has come into the Premier League and done as well as he has? People compare him to Callum Wilson who is older and has prem league experience.

I think he has done brilliantly and will soon get back on the goals sheet, just hope the lack of goals doesn't affect his confidence.

again not saying he is immune to criticism, but for me he has only had a couple of average games since he has been here.

Hes also hasnt had  a lot of luck, goals ruled out by VAR that similar have been given for other players. Great save the other night by De Gea from his header, hit the post, bar. He could be the top scorer in the Premier League. But the fact he is getting chances is a huge positive. 

[TRO]

On 02/01/2021 at 22:01, Bazmonkey said:

Watkins in his first season has done well so far especially in his work rate.

The problem with goals is he doesn't fit our play yet.

At Brentford he had benrahma and the other chap...cant think of his name...running forward with the ball and playing him in....bit like his goal at arsenal.

Unfortunately we don't play like that and we rely on crosses from wide...look at how many back post goals we have.

Now you could argue he should be there but overall he is not the right fit for us now. He is often alone up top bringing down Mings 60 yard hoofs....its tough. 

I think if grealish played more central he would get more goals because he could play on the shoulder...but grealish is often out wide with the other winger so that leaves him in the box waiting for the cross.

Hopefully when barkley comes back we can have that player to play more central which would suit him better.

The goals will come....Palace was unlucky but he is trying and you can't fault that

I think he will be ok long term, he has to learn how to play with us.

Alan Shearer once made a comment on this " strikers fitting in" ....He said they have to learn to play with the team, not the other way around.

rarely does any team play the same way, there is always variations based on the variety of skills of their players......but strikers move around clubs, like any other player.

He has to learn how to play with us.....making the right runs at the right time, would be a good start.

At the moment he is working his socks off, but he has to work smart to get rewards....He needs to watch Vardy, Ings, Son & Kane.

[VillanousOne]

Think this fitting in thing goes both ways, looking at Samatta, Wes and Davies (yes they have their many faults) none of them have 'fitted' our way of playing very well (whatever that is meant to be).

Only player who you could argue has is Abraham and that was in the Championship.

In my opinion our reliance on Grealish and two wingers makes it harder for any lone striker to be prolific, but doesn't mean we don't score a lot of goals.  

[OutByEaster?]

I think he fits our system really well, he works his socks off, he stretches defences and he occupies defenders - he's the best defensive forward in the league, when Dean Smith was talking about him as a forward that's great at playing with ten men he was right, Watkins lets us play with ten men and Jack Grealish. He's perfect for our system and he'll also score plenty of goals.

 

[turvontour]

2 hours ago, PaulC said:

Hes also hasnt had  a lot of luck, goals ruled out by VAR that similar have been given for other players. Great save the other night by De Gea from his header, hit the post, bar. He could be the top scorer in the Premier League. But the fact he is getting chances is a huge positive. 

This. He had 2 goals which were given by ref and linesman but then overturned by var when back at the centre circle. He will have a lot of goals disallowed to var because of those types of goals he scores. I wonder how many goals he would have actually scored for Brentford last season if var had been involved. Haha.

[TRO]

On 03/01/2021 at 13:08, Dave-R said:

I think your both right, yet Watkins has to save something in the Tank, cant keep running himself out like that, he needs something towards the end of the match or for the next matches. Hes a very fit lad yes but everyone gets tired, we could do with another like him where we could change Watkins during game for who can maybe finish the job on a team or vice versa.

It looks as though that we are trying to increase on field energy and stamina, especially the way Leeds got to us. I think Smith may have seen we need more in the tank but that also needs to happen with depth and rotation.

If Watkins keeps running around like a hooligan like that every game, then we will have a dead striker before the season is done who needs a battery change. Now is the time to bring someone in and make it count, we do not know when Wes and Ross will be back, so I'm hoping we find a new striker to aid Watkins.

There is also that teams are setting up for Watkins, they watch how he is on field and know we are relying on one striker, it's not as big a headache as it would be with a second striker.. We need to give them more to think about in that area and keep them guessing, a second striker who is fast but plays differently wouldn't go a miss, so we can change the way we play at attack.

Ollie needs to study "Son"...his runs are purposeful and more by design....He synch's with Kane, they are telepathic.

Ollie works his socks off, but needs to be more efficient and synch with the play and our creators need to be more mindful of the runs.

He just needs to work on his game.

[lexicon]

22 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think he fits our system really well, he works his socks off, he stretches defences and he occupies defenders - he's the best defensive forward in the league, when Dean Smith was talking about him as a forward that's great at playing with ten men he was right, Watkins lets us play with ten men and Jack Grealish. He's perfect for our system and he'll also score plenty of goals.

 

It's also not just about his individual numbers, it's about how the team performs with him in it - if we're winning games and scoring goals and he's a common factor there, then it'd be foolish to second guess that. 

[omariqy]

He’s the perfect player for our system. Watkins has a massive amount to do with why we have been so successful this season. He occupies the defence and stretches them. This then allows our wingers and midfielders more room to operate. No coincidence that our midfielders are scoring so many

[TRO]

23 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

Think this fitting in thing goes both ways, looking at Samatta, Wes and Davies (yes they have their many faults) none of them have 'fitted' our way of playing very well (whatever that is meant to be).

Only player who you could argue has is Abraham and that was in the Championship.

In my opinion our reliance on Grealish and two wingers makes it harder for any lone striker to be prolific, but doesn't mean we don't score a lot of goals.  

Some of the main elements of being a good striker is timing and co- ordination and that is mainly relating to runs....the players you mentioned have not yet grasped it.....my point is.....THEY have to work with the team and synch with the play.....i.e David Platt.

Just running around is not working hard, the runs have to be in synch and purposeful, with clear intention.

I am not suggesting Ollie's work is wasteful, just making the point, that it will take time for him to link more purposely with the front men and get their timing right.

He will be ok, just BMH work to do.

Edited January 6, 2021 by TRO

[blandy]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

Ollie needs to study "Son"...his runs are purposeful and more by design....He synch's with Kane, they are telepathic.

Ollie works his socks off, but needs to be more efficient and synch with the play and our creators need to be more mindful of the runs.

He just needs to work on his game.

I think that's harsh. Obviously I agree that he needs to and will keep working in training, but his runs are excellent in terms of link up play - really good.

But he plays a different role to Son. As does Kane, who drop deep a lot. They are absolutely brilliant together. Olly plays as a lone striker ahead of the rest of the team, always up against 2 defenders. Son tends to play wider and make runs into the centre when Kane drops from the centre. It's a different way of playing, tactically for Spurs compared to Villa. The runs they make often have different purpose - Olly moves to find space to then hold up the ball and allow the midfield to move up and support, whereas Son moves from wider, often midfield, positions into the centre to provide a finish or further link up with Kane.

[TRO]

23 minutes ago, blandy said:

I think that's harsh. Obviously I agree that he needs to and will keep working in training, but his runs are excellent in terms of link up play - really good.

But he plays a different role to Son. As does Kane, who drop deep a lot. They are absolutely brilliant together. Olly plays as a lone striker ahead of the rest of the team, always up against 2 defenders. Son tends to play wider and make runs into the centre when Kane drops from the centre. It's a different way of playing, tactically for Spurs compared to Villa. The runs they make often have different purpose - Olly moves to find space to then hold up the ball and allow the midfield to move up and support, whereas Son moves from wider, often midfield, positions into the centre to provide a finish or further link up with Kane.

It wasn't meant to be harsh Pete.....I really like the lad, but I see work needs to be done for him to repeat his goal tally he got in the championship.

you mention Ollie holds up the play, very noble, but if we are just using him for that as his main attribute, it will end in disappointment.....He needs to score more regularly....not necessarily more goals, but more regularly.

very few teams play the same way, Kane is not playing the same way under Mourinho as he did with Poch.....you have to find the ways that pay the dividends.

there are Oodles of examples of strikers that have been successful at one club, moved and can't hack it.....it can sometimes be they have not changed their game to suit the club they have joined.....or the new way their club wants to play....strikers like all players have to have the ability to adapt.

I don't want to go over board on this, it was just an observation, not a criticism, i still think he will work on things and we have a good player.

but lets be clear not scoring is not always bad luck, you make your own luck.

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by TRO

[Mjvilla]

17 minutes ago, TRO said:

It wasn't meant to be harsh Pete.....I really like the lad, but I see work needs to be done for him to repeat his goal tally he got in the championship.

you mention Ollie holds up the play, very noble, but if we are just using him for that as his main attribute, it will end in disappointment.....He needs to score more regularly....not necessarily more goals, but more regularly.

very few teams play the same way, Kane is not playing the same way under Mourinho as he did with Poch.....you have to find the ways that pay the dividends.

there are Oodles of examples of strikers that have been successful at one club, moved and can't hack it.....it can sometimes be they have not changed their game to suit the club they have joined.....or the new way their club wants to play....strikers like all players have to have the ability to adapt.

I don't want to go over board on this, it was just an observation, not a criticism, i still think he will work on things and we have a good player.

but lets be clear not scoring is not always bad luck, you make your own luck.

 

So, what has Watkins done that means he gets the bad luck of the VAR decisions against West ham and west brom? He works hard, fights and battles for every ball. He is making his own luck, he's just not getting any.

Youve had some words for his runs, he's still getting in the positions to miss chances. I fear you're being over harsh on him here. 

The only thing I would say is perhaps he could become a bit more nasty and learn the dark arts a bit. He is maybe abit too nice. But, for a striker with a handful of premier league games to his name, he's doing a fantastic job, for me.

[Zatman]

On 05/01/2021 at 14:08, VillanousOne said:

Think this fitting in thing goes both ways, looking at Samatta, Wes and Davies (yes they have their many faults) none of them have 'fitted' our way of playing very well (whatever that is meant to be).

Only player who you could argue has is Abraham and that was in the Championship.

In my opinion our reliance on Grealish and two wingers makes it harder for any lone striker to be prolific, but doesn't mean we don't score a lot of goals.  

Said it before Liverpool centre forward got 9 goals last season but he was one of the most important players in the system. Very similar to Ollie and no surprise AEG and Traore are frequent goalscorers in the last month, Trez should be on 5 or 6 as well

Edited January 6, 2021 by Zatman

[tom_avfc]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

Said it before Liverpool centre forward got 9 goals last season but he was one of the most important players in the system. Very similar to Ollie and no surprise AEG and Traore are frequent gialscorers in the last month, Trez should be on 5 or 6 as well

This is an important point to be fair. I don't really care who scores our goals as long as we're scoring enough. Goal scoring doesn't appear to be an issue and Watkins is a big part of that even if he's not always the one putting the ball in the back of the net. 

He was part of a prolific front three at Brentford with all three scoring a lot of goals. He's probably unlucky not to have another couple this season with some very tight VAR calls. I don't see any reason for him to change the way he's playing now and I still see him comfortably hitting at least 15 goals this season which for a first year in the Premier League is about as good as you can hope for.

I also think that whilst our wingers have performed reasonably well over the last few games that Watkins would be far more effective if we had better wingers in general.