Generic Virus Thread

[StefanAVFC]

We watched Italy have cases grow at an alarming rate, and let Cheltenham and Liverpool/Atleti happen.

We didn't do well enough at the start. Maybe not it's fine, but not then.

And the lack of testing has been abject too.

[Genie]

25 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Well, I’m perfectly happy to be proved wrong. Nightingale beds, ventilators, gloves, testing kits, business loans.

I’m not trying to promote that some other party would deliver better, we could never know that. I just see and hear every day that they’ve done x, y or z and then know from friends that they absolutely haven’t. Head teachers I know have had to go in to schools to get science goggles. I’ve personally given a GP a box of date expired gloves, because they were better than nothing.

Even yesterday’s death figures were bollocks that you could read and check for yourself on the official NHS public access data. 

There is one thing that has been knocked out of the park, the number of volunteers that have signed up. 

I think the point is that it’s an immensely difficult and complicated situation and there have been a lot of progress. The world has come off its axis and there’s still a lot of positive progress from this government to protect the economy and support the ill and vulnerable. They have made mistakes too, as would anybody trying to sort out an unprecedented situation such as this.

Its a bit like the cheap and lazy questioning (that many on here were critical of) that the media are firing at the politicians hosting the daily briefings (which are also another thing to be applauded). You said you’d do this but it’s late! It’s a bit unfair imo. 
The stress levels and working hours from the government at the moment must be off the scale. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Genie

[Jareth]

11 minutes ago, Genie said:

Found it, from 25th March.

Link

I remember it very well. He went in to say about the dangers of getting a positive result of negative and vice versa. They had to be certain the tests were accurate before they rolled them out.

A week earlier on the 18th March - "Game-changer" "in-house". No 'subject to it working' or 'it's coming from china'. Not least the 25,000 test promise - nearly a month ago, and we are not even there yet.

Mr Johnson said: “The great thing about having a test to see whether you’ve had it enough, is suddenly a green light goes on above your head and you can go back to work safe and confident in the knowledge that you are most unlikely to get it again.

“So for an economic point of view, from a social point of view, it really could be a game-changer.

“You can really see the potential of that advance, which, as I say, is coming down the track.”

Sir Patrick added: “That’s progressing very fast, Public Health England are looking at this today.

“They’ve got a test in house they’ve got going and we’re looking at ways at getting the much more widespread version out.

“It is a game-changer. And the reason it’s a game-changer is that it allows you to understand the proportion of the asymptomatic population – who’s had this disease, but hasn’t had symptoms.

“Going forward it’s going to be critically important to be able to monitor this disease well because only by being able to monitor it can we start relaxing measures again.”

Earlier on Wednesday, the Government announced that it would be ramping up its testing efforts, carrying out 25,000 coronavirus tests per day.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/national/18315890.game-changer-coronavirus-test-reveal-disease-no-symptoms/

[Jareth]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

We didn't do well enough at the start.

100% - and to anyone happy with government performance at the moment, sobering reminder - we only exit lock-down with mass testing in place. That 100k tests by the end of this month is vital if we are to resume daily life. Folks can forgive and excuse those politicians who sought power their entire life, but they are in the driving seat now - how long are we going to say it's ok? Another month? Another two months of lockdown?. I'll be very happy to change my tune when they get this testing in place, when they said they would. 

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, Jareth said:

A week earlier on the 18th March - "Game-changer" "in-house". No 'subject to it working' or 'it's coming from china'. Not least the 25,000 test promise - nearly a month ago, and we are not even there yet.

Mr Johnson said: “The great thing about having a test to see whether you’ve had it enough, is suddenly a green light goes on above your head and you can go back to work safe and confident in the knowledge that you are most unlikely to get it again.

“So for an economic point of view, from a social point of view, it really could be a game-changer.

“You can really see the potential of that advance, which, as I say, is coming down the track.”

Sir Patrick added: “That’s progressing very fast, Public Health England are looking at this today.

“They’ve got a test in house they’ve got going and we’re looking at ways at getting the much more widespread version out.

“It is a game-changer. And the reason it’s a game-changer is that it allows you to understand the proportion of the asymptomatic population – who’s had this disease, but hasn’t had symptoms.

“Going forward it’s going to be critically important to be able to monitor this disease well because only by being able to monitor it can we start relaxing measures again.”

Earlier on Wednesday, the Government announced that it would be ramping up its testing efforts, carrying out 25,000 coronavirus tests per day.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/national/18315890.game-changer-coronavirus-test-reveal-disease-no-symptoms/

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Are you suggesting they should have focussed on getting the test out quickly even if they were not satisfied it was doing what they wanted it to? The test clearly wasn’t an off the shelf product, and they confirmed several times during March it needed more development, there were bottle necks in supply and they wouldn’t roll it out until it was fully reliable.

 It would only temporarily  satisfy those who are only focussed on hitting the target regardless of what the repercussions were, but they’ll be back with their “what a stupid thing to do” pitchforks.

[sne]

Just wow  

 

[HanoiVillan]

9 minutes ago, Genie said:

I think the point is that it’s an immensely difficult and complicated situation and there have been a lot of progress. The world has come off its axis and there’s still a lot of positive progress from this government to protect the economy and support the ill and vulnerable. They have made mistakes too, as would anybody trying to sort out an unprecedented situation such as this.

Its a bit like the cheap and lazy questioning (that many on here were critical of) that the media are firing at the politicians hosting the daily briefings (which are also another thing to be applauded). You said you’d do this but it’s late! It’s a bit unfair imo. 
The stress levels and working hours from the government at the moment must be off the scale. 

I don't think anyone would disagree that it must be very stressful and exhausting for those involved in the government response, but of course it's also stressful and exhausting for frontline NHS workers, social care, supermarket staff etc etc. One big difference between a supermarket shelf-stacker for instance, and a government minister, is that the latter were aware when they took the job that there was a real chance they would have to work through a genuine crisis at some point.

On the praise for the daily briefings, I would simply note that Boris was essentially forced into them, and that other national leaders were doing them well before. Boris was clearly not enthusiastic about them, and had lots of different people deputising for him even when he was well. So sure, it's a good thing that we have them, but you'll have to forgive me for not *applauding* as such.

[Jareth]

5 minutes ago, Genie said:

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make.

I'm asking the government to tell it straight, these are serious times. Spin and deflection worked great for them during Brexit, not now. As said, I'll wait and see how many folks are cheering their stewardship when we're still all stuck at home in June, and needn't be. 

[choffer]

47 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Even yesterday’s death figures were bollocks that you could read and check for yourself on the official NHS public access data. 

I’m not sure I can believe even the NHS figures. I spoke to a consultant friend at the weekend. They said the reported number of confirmed cases (tested rather than deaths) for their region was a quarter of what they had in their hospital alone. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by choffer
Appreciate this is totally anecdotal and not hard facts. Take it for what it is.

[Jareth]

Ok one more.

20th March - British firm behind £6 DIY finger prick coronavirus test which detects antibodies in the blood and 'is 98% accurate' claims its offer to make 500,000 of them a week for the NHS has fallen on deaf ears  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8134983/Accurate-6-Covid-19-test-attracted-tentative-Government-interest.html

Over 3 weeks later having botched procurement from China (lack of scrutiny by politicians appears to becoming a regular thing - questions like "does it work?" before announcing it) 

8th April - 

The health secretary, Matt Hancock, will ask industry leaders to help the UK find an antibody test that works.

Hancock will issue the plea on a conference call on Wednesday, echoing his call for help on ventilators [BUT WHAT ABOUT DYSON????], after the government conceded that none of the antibody tests it has are good enough for mass usage.

Biotech companies will be asked to help identify and mass-produce a fingerprick test that is accurate enough to offer to the general population to see if they have had coronavirus.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/08/health-minister-defends-uk-coronavirus-testing-approach-chris-whitty-germany-covid-19#maincontent

[LondonLax]

It sounds like the UK government lost control of the track and trace testing (for people carrying the virus) and instead decided antibody testing would be their way out (to show people who had previously had it already). The only problem is, no such test exists and the early promise of one was false hope. They are back to square one, with a virus out of control and a track and trace testing system that is playing catch-up.

[Xann]

10 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

If true Whitty and others certainly seem to have played down the threat at the start and we took too long to raise the threat levels which left us unprepared and playing catch up.

Fascinating as it is, add what we already know to the mix and it actually throws Theresa May's government under a bus.

[mjmooney]

The French have tightened their lockdown - no more going outdoors for exercise. 

[chrisp65]

34 minutes ago, choffer said:

I’m not sure I can believe even the NHS figures. I spoke to a consultant friend at the weekend. They said the reported number of confirmed cases (tested rather than deaths) for their region was a quarter of what they had in their hospital alone. 

Oh yes, agree with that.

There are caveats on the NHS data that let you know that’s a conservative estimate (pun intended).

Just strange how the NHS are reporting a figure they admit themselves is lower than reality, and the govt read out something even lower again. In reality, the actual finite number isn’t that relevant. My worry right now is we have a 4 day bank holiday coming up and the govt message is that we are below the line and slightly better than we’d anticipated and perhaps this is a transition to a flattening phase.

Which lots of people could hear as BBQ.

[PaulC]

13 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

The French have tightened their lockdown - no more going outdoors for exercise. 

Between 10-7 I think 

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Oh yes, agree with that.

There are caveats on the NHS data that let you know that’s a conservative estimate (pun intended).

Just strange how the NHS are reporting a figure they admit themselves is lower than reality, and the govt read out something even lower again. In reality, the actual finite number isn’t that relevant. My worry right now is we have a 4 day bank holiday coming up and the govt message is that we are below the line and slightly better than we’d anticipated and perhaps this is a transition to a flattening phase.

Which lots of people could hear as BBQ.

In all likelihood you are only probably talking about real figures being closer to Spain and Italy at this stage, while getting worse unfortunately.

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

I think the point is that it’s an immensely difficult and complicated situation and there have been a lot of progress. The world has come off its axis and there’s still a lot of positive progress from this government to protect the economy and support the ill and vulnerable. They have made mistakes too, as would anybody trying to sort out an unprecedented situation such as this.

Its a bit like the cheap and lazy questioning (that many on here were critical of) that the media are firing at the politicians hosting the daily briefings (which are also another thing to be applauded). You said you’d do this but it’s late! It’s a bit unfair imo. 
The stress levels and working hours from the government at the moment must be off the scale. 

I agree with all that. I really wouldn’t swap my position for their’s right now. Perhaps I’m just hoping for too much that they could just give a genuine factual answer. They’re expecting people to act like grown ups when it comes to work and exercise, so perhaps they could treat us like adults when it comes to the daily round of statistics. Genuine respect for the politician that says ‘right now, I don’t know, but I’ll find out’.

Why can’t they say we are aiming to get 30,000 ventilators, its uncharted territory and we think its better to invent a new one than free issue the plans for half a dozen existing ones. But that will need time, initially, we might only get dozens but it will improve.

No, they go on Newsnight and insist that next week there will be 8 days and a brand new colour.

[Genie]

Just now, chrisp65 said:

Genuine respect for the politician that says ‘right now, I don’t know, but I’ll find out’.

I agree with this too, but sadly there will be hundreds foaming at the mouth “it’s yoUr joB 2 no”. 

[Delphouneso]

Just got back from the supermarket. I saw a man who I'd put in his 80s coming out with nothing but a bag of potatoes, another older gentleman with nothing but milk and bread, and a woman of a similar age loudly declare she'd 'had enough of this distancing rubbish'. There were also loads of couples going in together despite being told that if two of them were going in they'd have to wait for two people to come out thus further holding up the rest of the queue.

The builders on the site opposite our house also seem to have gone back to work as normal, and the amount of traffic on the roads didn't seem out of the ordinary for any other Wednesday.

Whitty was right when he said people would get bored of the restrictions if they imposed them too early, but I'm not even sure he imagined it would happen this quickly.

[chrisp65]

I guess this is why the country still hasn’t taken up my offer that I be installed as benevolent dictator.

Not a problem, I can wait. I’m simply playing the long game.