messi11 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 21 minutes ago, skarroki said: He'll obviously have to kick on at some point but he's still got plenty of time to do it. He's a completely different player to Archer from what I've seen of both of them so I won't be comparing them. As I mentioned in the Archer thread, he'll fit the PNE system and style really well and Lowe is an excellent manager. KHH didn't fit the Swindon team really well but he was just so good it didn't really matter. Early doors for Barry, have to see how he does over the rest of this season and the next 2/3 years agreed, We need to let him develop quietly without putting expectations on his shoulders. He still got plenty of time to grow until he's 21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Yeah but we have had various youngsters who did excellently in the youth leagues but then when it comes to proper league football they struggle. Barry it failed miserably for him at Ipswich. If he struggles at swindon it would be worrying signs for him. Archer was what 19 when he debuted for us? Look at him scoring scoring in a tough league like the championship at 20. For me there is no comparison when you compare the two regardless of the 2 year age gap right now. You literally asked what Barry had shown at 18 compared to Archer to say he's better and got a list of things. At the moment yes Archer is better but is 2 years older. At 18 Batry had accomplished a lot more. Last season Archer had a failed loan at Solihull Moors, Barry had half a failed loan at Ipswich. Obviously Archer is better at the moment but is 2 years older. That's the entire point. We'd have all written Archer for after doing nothing at Solihull, so let's not make the same mistake with Barry just because we're expecting a lot from him 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 I've always thought that Barry is a long way from first team football yet, but that's not to say he won't make it at all. Last year there were calls for him to play for the first team, and for me they were way off the mark. He's at least two years away from the first team at Villa in my opinion, he needs to mature and grow into a man physically first. Luckily football wise he has all of the attributes he needs, and this loan will be a big learning curve for him as a part of a first team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 6, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2022 Christ I'm reading through this thread just shaking my head with amazement. People are **** stupid. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 23 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said: You literally asked what Barry had shown at 18 compared to Archer to say he's better and got a list of things. At the moment yes Archer is better but is 2 years older. At 18 Batry had accomplished a lot more. Last season Archer had a failed loan at Solihull Moors, Barry had half a failed loan at Ipswich. Obviously Archer is better at the moment but is 2 years older. That's the entire point. We'd have all written Archer for after doing nothing at Solihull, so let's not make the same mistake with Barry just because we're expecting a lot from him I fear you may be wasting your time explaining it... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV82 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 It's probably the same numpties who were writing off Lord Buendia just a few games ago. Ignore. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 2 hours ago, ThunderPower_14 said: You can't just say "regardless of age" though when you're talking about a youth player. When Archer was 18 he wasn't even on the radar. Barry will have to improve, obviously, as will every single young player on the books if they want to make it, but Archer is a perfect example that development and improvement are not linear. It's hard to overstate how bad a place to go out on loan Ipswich was. New owners with lots of pressure on a bad (now sacked) manager, an enormous turnover of players and very poor performances. This wasn't a nice established team where Louie could slot in to an open spot and work in a system to develop. Yeah im not sure what went on at ipswich none of us know we can only speculate what happened behind the scenes so i cant comment on that. Im hoping barry gets some kind of success down at Swindon. Kesler was given opportunities and was a major success there so i expect if barry impresses he will do the same. With archer it doesnt defy the point though does it that archer is miles ahead of him to be included in amatch day squad ahead of barry. Hopefully barry can step it up in the next few seasons and make it here. We all want him to be a success here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 Is he meant to be a striker or an inside forward of a front 3? I can see him suited to that left hand side of a three personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messi11 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 2 hours ago, sidcow said: Christ I'm reading through this thread just shaking my head with amazement. People are **** stupid. Which people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messi11 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 (edited) Why are we doing Archer vs Barry comparisons. 1 is 18, the other is 20. Every player develops differently At the age of 22 Ian Wright was playing for Greenwich Borough. But 18 year old Louie Barry is being written off that he will never make it after 70mins of League 2 footy and a poor whoscored rating Edited February 6, 2022 by messi11 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roitorb Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 7 minutes ago, messi11 said: Why are we doing Archer vs Barry comparisons. 1 is 18, the other is 20. Every player develops differently At the age of 22 Ian Wright was playing for Greenwich Borough. But 18 year old Louie Barry is being written off that he will never make it after 70mins of League 2 footy and a poor whoscored rating Unfortunately we have internet stats that mean **** all really but people use this as evidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 3 hours ago, HalfTimePost said: You literally asked what Barry had shown at 18 compared to Archer to say he's better and got a list of things. At the moment yes Archer is better but is 2 years older. At 18 Batry had accomplished a lot more. Last season Archer had a failed loan at Solihull Moors, Barry had half a failed loan at Ipswich. Obviously Archer is better at the moment but is 2 years older. That's the entire point. We'd have all written Archer for after doing nothing at Solihull, so let's not make the same mistake with Barry just because we're expecting a lot from him Barry got loaned to a rubbish side with an even rubbish manager who didn’t play him and then got sacked for being rubbish. Also Barry (I believe) was out with an injury for a while. I would not lay much blame on that failure with Barry tbh. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 6 hours ago, messi11 said: Cameron Archer... when he was struggling last season at Solihull Moors FC. Seen this said a couple of times now. Is this actually true? Moors thought him good enough to extend the loan in Jan and he seemed to have played plenty of games so can't have been too bad. I'm not sure his goal return, which I'm guessing people are going off, is too much of an indicator given he was played wide rather than central most of the time IIRC. Every mention of him I saw at the time sounded like he was doing pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 Everyone seems to forget how shit Jack Grealish looked for us until he was 21 and got a significant run of games in the Championship. Sure, he had a few magical matches, like the Liverpool semifinal and that appearance against Hull where he drew 4-5 yellow cards in less than 10 minutes, but most of the time he looked completely anonymous and lost in a shit Premier League team. By his own account, he didn't start to knuckle down and take football seriously until he started rooming with John Terry and started learning how to be a top professional off the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 48 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: Seen this said a couple of times now. Is this actually true? Moors thought him good enough to extend the loan in Jan and he seemed to have played plenty of games so can't have been too bad. I'm not sure his goal return, which I'm guessing people are going off, is too much of an indicator given he was played wide rather than central most of the time IIRC. Every mention of him I saw at the time sounded like he was doing pretty well. He didn't score many and whilst Moors were happy enough there wasn't much to write home about and given the difference in levels meant there was next to no hype about Archer on here or from the fanbase. So 'struggling' in terms of how fans would want any loans to go, ripping the league a part - he didn't do that. But that's the point, loans can be very useful for players and massively aid their development for a variety of reasons. Scoring and assisting like Prime Messi would do in the Vanarama South would be great for all players on loan, but isn't realistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 10 hours ago, Xela said: This time 12 months ago, Archer was a forgotten man. Most of us assumed his time had passed and he'd be on his way out of the club. Look at him now Jacob Ramsey was written off as poor and 'dogshit' after the first game of the season by a few posters. Look at him now. Thats not to say Barry will be like Grealish but he still has years of development ahead of him. Perhaps don't write him off just yet though? In fairness some of the posters criticising Barry were saying similar about Grealish. We should have sold him for 8 million 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farlz Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Only on here could a youth player go from the next big thing and wanting him given a chance in the first team to actually he might not be all that and probably won’t be a Premier League player. All in about 12 months, never change VillaTalk. He’s 18, I don’t understand what the big rush is all about. Shit loans don’t mean that’s it he’s not got it, Harry Kane had pretty average/shit loans. Then you could go the route of Grealish wasn’t all that until about what 22/23? Then he went on to become an absolute world superstar. Archer has gone from no one having a thought about him last year to all of a sudden becoming a genuinely exciting player at 20. Barry has plenty of time to develop yet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KangarooVillan Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 14 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Not writing him off completely but regardless of age archer is miles ahead of him. If barry wants to make it at villa he has to exceed archer to be ahead of him so massive improvements are gojng to be needed in next few years Thats all my point is stating If we’re disregarding age may as well compare him to Watkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 I genuinely find it odd how people are being critical about Louie Barry. If this boy didn’t come from Barcelona, or score that goal against Liverpool the levels of expectations for Louie would be much lower. But unfortunately he did those things and the fan expectations are astronomical. We as fans need to check ourselves before we check him. He’s just 18 and still a long way from being the finished article. We should know this, rather than dismissing his potentials because he’s not meeting our expectations already. Have some patience As of comparing Louie to Cameron Archer is ridiculous. At the same age, Cameron was on loan to a non league club, being equally unremarkable as Louie is this season. As fans, in particular VTers gave little attention to Cameron at the time (just 3 pages), yet since his hat trick against Barrow earlier this season he’s gained so much more attention (32pages) with expectations that’s he’s going to be the next great hope. Isn’t it strange how we don’t look back at Cameron’s time a Solihull as a bad thing. We now know it changed him for the better regardless of how unremarkable he was as a player there. We just need to be patient and let Louie grow up in his own way.. in 6 months Cameron went from being a meh non league player to being a decent championship player. Louie will get to his potential when his ready. You just may be surprised how quick it could happen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 8 hours ago, KangarooVillan said: If we’re disregarding age may as well compare him to Watkins. Yeah - or, alternatively, you could point out the fact he's better than Pele. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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