Cameron Archer

[thabucks]

Just now, duke313 said:

Please, enlighten us.

Brian Brobbery . Mohamed-Ali Cho . Elye Wahi . Andre Silva . Marcos Leonardo . Gift Orban . Aimine Gouri . Abel Ruiz . Breel Embolo …. Then you’ve Jonathan David . Gonçalo Ramos etc 

[brummybloke]

He needs a chance. He's done a couple seasons on loan in the Championship and a loan to non league. 

He will get minutes if we don't sign another CF and is more the finisher than hold up player.

I'm sure the team will have different ways of playing and one of those ways will include having a forward who is put through rather than fighting for the ball or holding it up.

Give him the first half of the season to train with and play with the 1st team and if he's not up to scratch then I'm sure loads of teams would want to loan him.

[Steero113]

31 minutes ago, thabucks said:

 Elye Wahi

Yes, it's been a good while since anyone hired a deviant. 

In November 2021, it was revealed by investigative reporter Romain Molina that Wahi had been expelled from Caen's youth academy for allegedly pressuring secondary school students to masturbate in front of him in the bathrooms.

[MWARLEY2]

35 minutes ago, thabucks said:

Brian Brobbery . Mohamed-Ali Cho . Elye Wahi . Andre Silva . Marcos Leonardo . Gift Orban . Aimine Gouri . Abel Ruiz . Breel Embolo …. Then you’ve Jonathan David . Gonçalo Ramos etc 

As an aside its wierd how Jonathan David hasnt been linked this summer with anyone from what i remember. Has he gone downhill ? 

[Marka Ragnos]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

If within reason, I could get a striker, it would be Evan Ferguson.....as young as he is.

Haha. I've been thinking the same for weeks ... "great minds" (or mediocre ones lol)

1 hour ago, pintpotvilla said:

That would be a very good call but highly unlikely Brighton would agree to it. They hardly need the money!!

Yup, and I think his contract runs to the year 3000 or something.

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Yeah, I get that....but we are talking about, if Ollie gets injured or suspended.... we then need someone to lead the line and score goals.

We have Emi Buendia and Phil Coutinho to play No 10 or second Striker.....We don't know if, Moussa Diaby, can play that role, too?

I think, if we are to bring in another forward player, he has to have goal scoring capabilities and record.....If that takes a gamble, like lower league or foreign league, then maybe we have to do that....but to my knowledge they are not plentiful.

Apparently yes, as @mjmooney says. But when I look at those Leverkusen reels of Leon and Moussa together, they more or less obviate the concept of strikers. Those two together cut through defenses like dual-wielded blades ... (and yes, I just needed to use this gif). Who even needs a striker then?

Edited July 25, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[lexicon]

40 minutes ago, TRO said:

Thats interesting, and I value your opinion.

But let me expand on that, somewhat.

I Love Ollie watkins and could wax lyrical about him....but in that game he failed c 3 times with his first touch to a through ball, we could have scored if he had.....I could also point out Boub Kamara was robbed of Possesion, once again, that led to conceding.....Top,top players overall IMO....so we ride with that as isolated incidents in a game....but Cam gets forensically examined?

Cam never had the luxury of playing in that vibrant first half, with the quality of service sublime......my point is, its difficult to tell under the circumstances....He was brought on with huge defenders to face, in Botman and Lascelles, not exactly ideal for him.

Lets make this clear....I am not saying he is the finished article....what I am saying is, with his goal scoring record in the Championship,he has, there is something well worth working with IMO.

PS If EmI Buendia, (who has his critics), can turn his game around like that...sensational.....This boy can be the player we want too.

 

Watkins scored a goal and Bouba did a lot of good despite his error/s. Archer didn't do much of anything tbh. The defenders aren't going to get any smaller or much worse in the prem. 

[duke313]

1 hour ago, thabucks said:

Brian Brobbery . Mohamed-Ali Cho . Elye Wahi . Andre Silva . Marcos Leonardo . Gift Orban . Aimine Gouri . Abel Ruiz . Breel Embolo …. Then you’ve Jonathan David . Gonçalo Ramos etc 

I would say very few of that list would currently enhance us. The ones that would, would cost a fair bit.

Edited July 25, 2023 by duke313

[markavfc40]

I think I agree with others in terms of loaning him out to a championship club again and it not telling us anything we don't already know as we know he can score goals at that level. The game has always been littered with players who can score in the lower leagues though but can't step up to the top level. In recent history there is the likes of Jordan Rhodes, Billy Sharp, Rob Earnshaw, Dwight Gayle, Teemu Pukki who at Championship level were lethal and were natural goalscorers but at Prem level looked nowhere near as good and couldn't hit a barn door. 

We want to know if Archer is good enough for the top level then we are either going to have to give him game time with us, loan him to another top level club or perhaps it won't come to either of those things and we'll have to trust that our manager/coaches have enough about them to judge him on what they have seen from his previous loans and what they have seen/will see in training/pre season to decide if he is cut out for the top level. 

 

[MWARLEY2]

2 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I think I agree with others in terms of loaning him out to a championship club again and it not telling us anything we don't already know as we know he can score goals at that level. The game has always been littered with players who can score in the lower leagues though but can't step up to the top level. In recent history there is the likes of Jordan Rhodes, Billy Sharp, Rob Earnshaw, Dwight Gayle, Teemu Pukki who at Championship level were lethal and were natural goalscorers but at Prem level looked nowhere near as good and couldn't hit a barn door. 

We want to know if Archer is good enough for the top level then we are either going to have to give him game time with us, loan him to another top level club or perhaps it won't come to either of those things and we'll have to trust that our manager/coaches have enough about them to judge him on what they have seen from his previous loans and what they have seen/will see in training/pre season to decide if he is cut out for the top level. 

 

Good points made there. I think that its the chance to prove himself we are all looking for  . If he fails then fair enough. And it might be the one of our own feeling that wills us to want him to succeed more than say Duran who we have little connection with yet  . 

To see if he is more Darius than Luke 

[MotoMkali]

7 hours ago, lexicon said:

It's a catch 22. We can't really afford to carry him and hope he ups his all-round game to the level required, but he's not necessarily going to develop a better all-round game unless he plays against premier league level defenders. 

Ideally, we'd loan him to Luton, Burnley or Sheff United this season to get that experience.

He's got a developed all-round game. Aside from aerials which he will never be good at he's got very similar numbers to watkins' last season in the championship on top of being a better finisher, and creating more and better goal scoring opportunities for teammates. 

[allani]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

Yeah, I get that....but we are talking about, if Ollie gets injured or suspended.... we then need someone to lead the line and score goals.

We have Emi Buendia and Phil Coutinho to play No 10 or second Striker.....We don't know if, Moussa Diaby, can play that role, too?

I think, if we are to bring in another forward player, he has to have goal scoring capabilities and record.....If that takes a gamble, like lower league or foreign league, then maybe we have to do that....but to my knowledge they are not plentiful.

From a personal perspective - the advantage of adding a Ferran Torres or Felix type player is that they can play with Ollie - so we're not spending money on a player who will (usually) only be on the pitch when Ollie isn't - and they will score goals.  If you look at this season Ollie scored 15 league goals, our joint second top scorers scored 6.  Suddenly we will have a front three (Ollie, Diaby, ANO) who will all be looking (realistically) to score double figures in the league or very close to it.  I would also imagine that Ramsey will score more than last season even if he plays fewer minutes.  Gives us a lot more balance up front and will also give opposition defenders a lot more to worry about.

This means that we are immediately less reliant on Ollie than we have been in the past.  Rather than it being a struggle to see where the goals are coming from - you'd still expect Diaby and ANO to be scoring fairly regularly.  I think it then means that if Ollie does get injured, we can either play more like we did this season with say Diaby and ANO "up front" and Ramsey or Buendia joining them from a deeper starting position.  OR we can afford to "gamble" on Archer and give him that chance.  If it works out immediately then brilliant.  If not then we've still got two players on the pitch who should be getting around 10 goals - possibly three with Ramsey.  It means that Archer isn't under immediate pressure to score but also probably means we're more likely to be playing a style of football that suits him and is more likely to provide him with chances to score.

If we get that extra attacker I think we can afford to gamble on Archer being the back-up and would far rather do that than try and sign someone from a lower league or Europe.  Also if Archer does well to start with it will mean we can take Ollie off in more matches and try to avoid him getting too fatigued (which should help in avoiding stress type injuries). 

[allani]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

I'm not sure what the fascination is with Ferran Torres and Joao Felix.

I can't say, I have studied them forensically.....but their goal scoring records are much inferior to Ollie Watkins, not even close.

I am not particularly taken by Vanity signings.....Thats what Chelsea have been doing.

But massively better than our other attacking players.  I don't think we need someone who will score as many as Ollie.  But I'd rather our top scorers next season were at something like 18, 12, 10 goals each rather than 15, 6 and 6 like this season.

[Villaphan04]

7 hours ago, TRO said:

I'm not sure what the fascination is with Ferran Torres and Joao Felix.

I can't say, I have studied them forensically.....but their goal scoring records are much inferior to Ollie Watkins, not even close.

I am not particularly taken by Vanity signings.....Thats what Chelsea have been doing.

neither of them are what would be classed as a #9. I would say either of them would be a massive upgrade on what we had last year but we can't compare them to Ollie as neither plays the same position as he does. Archer is more similar to Ollie than those two are

7 hours ago, TRO said:

If within reason, I could get a striker, it would be Evan Ferguson.....as young as he is.

would be a great signing but completely unrealistic. He'd probably cost close to double our current transfer record fee & we have Durán and Archer already. 

 

8 hours ago, skarroki said:

There's not enough good strikers out there to be selling off one we brought through the academy. 

They're in hot demand currently, it's well worth keeping Archer around. Could save us £40mil if all goes well. 

That step up from Championship to the Prem is a complete unknown most the time. There's players who look ready-made for the Prem who cannot hack it and players that you'd think are struggling at that level that suddenly become Prem regulars. 

Because of that, if we need more numbers in the squad, I would want any academy players reaching the 21-22 age bracket where they need to be registered as one of the 25 to be kept on and hope they'll impress Unai.

I don't know if this is a commonly held sentiment in modern football, but I think acheiving anything good this season will be better if the Ramsey's, Philogene, Archer, Iroegbunam et al had a hand in that success. 

 This is the thing we don't know with Cam. From all accounts, he was average at Solihull, came back and scored plenty in the Championship. Whether he can do that in the PL is yet to be seen, but there are other parts of his game that will also need improvement (as with every footballer). It's all well and good if he can score a bucketful of goals, but the other side of the game which Ollie is extremely good at 

[Zatman]

The only way we will know if he can make it is if we use him. I would keep him around and see what he has. If season goes well he will have about 10-12 starts and probably 20 sub appearances 

[villan-scott]

Sounds like he wants him involved - but reading between the lines if we get another striker/forward I’d bet on Archer going on loan again. 

 

[villa4europe]

9 hours ago, duke313 said:

I would say very few of that list would currently enhance us. The ones that would, would cost a fair bit.

And still be a risk...

Archer might not get there and still needs game time and a lot of development before he becomes even a 10 goal a season back up striker

Most of the players on that list wouldn't be any different, some on that list would be the same but be costing double what archer would get us by selling and not be coming here to be 2nd choice

[Mark Albrighton]

Almost certainly been mentioned, but don’t we need four players from the club’s youth system in order to comply with the European campaign? 

I would want to keep him around regardless.

[Nigel]

6 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Almost certainly been mentioned, but don’t we need four players from the club’s youth system in order to comply with the European campaign? 

I would want to keep him around regardless.

Yes we need 4 from the youth set up. This will give a massive advantage to Cam staying with us this season.

[villa4europe]

14 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Almost certainly been mentioned, but don’t we need four players from the club’s youth system in order to comply with the European campaign? 

I would want to keep him around regardless.

Yes and no, it's 25 players 4 of which are from the clubs youth system or you can name a blank space

So in theory we can name a 24 man squad + 1 blank space

Agree that I'd keep him around on his own merits and have a proper look at him this year

[TheMightyVillans]

19 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Yes and no, it's 25 players 4 of which are from the clubs youth system or you can name a blank space

So in theory we can name a 24 man squad + 1 blank space

Agree that I'd keep him around on his own merits and have a proper look at him this year

I always have blank spaces when I'm playing Football Manager