Cameron Archer

[Adam2003]

29 minutes ago, TheAuthority said:

No it isn't

Oh sorry my mistake I was wrong 

[useless]

If a player is coming from academy football into the first team and looking like a lower level Prem or Champ player then that player is doing very well, and if Archer comes into our first team and does as well as Ramsey and then Chukwuemeka did in their initial appearance then he will be doing very well, there's a very good reason that Ramsey and Chukwuemeka were brought into the first team when they were.

I'm pretty sure that Archer will be going on loan to the championship next season, let him have a full season as first choice, rather being the third choice that he inevitably would be with us, as he's not getting in our team ahead of Ings or Watkins, and we're probably going to bring in another forward that will be an upgrade on those two, we blunted Davis' progress enough keeping him around as third choice, would be a shame to do the same to Archer.

Only way I would consider keeping him is if we're selling Ings, and the plan is to sometimes play with two upfront, then their might be scope to give him enough game time.

Worry is that some are building him up too much, and then will be unfairly critical of him if he doesn't live up to those expectations.

No shame in going on loan to the Championship, Abraham was on loan with us at a similar age that Archer will be next season, and Abraham was more proven at that point than Archer is now.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, useless said:

If a player is coming from academy football into the first team and looking like a lower level Prem or Champ player then that player is doing very well, and if Archer comes into our first team and does as well as Ramsey and then Chukwuemeka did in their initial appearance then he will be doing very well, there's a very good reason that Ramsey and Chukwuemeka were brought into the first team when they were.

I'm pretty sure that Archer will be going on loan to the championship next season, let him have a full season as first choice, rather being the third choice that he inevitably would be with us, as he's not getting in our team ahead of Ings or Watkins, and we're probably going to bring in another forward that will be an upgrade on those two, we blunted Davis' progress enough keeping him around as third choice, would be a shame to do the same to Archer.

Only way I would consider keeping him is if we're selling Ings, and the plan is to sometimes play with two upfront, then their might be scope to give him enough game time.

Worry is that some are building him up too much, and then will be unfairly critical of him if he doesn't live up to those expectations.

No shame in going on loan to the Championship, Abraham was on loan with us at a similar age that Archer will be next season, and Abraham was more proven at that point than Archer is now.

I agree. Plus if he is smashing it we can always recall him in January like Leicester did with Harvey Barnes.

[ThunderPower_14]

I'd definitely send him out on loan again. Hopefully he does for someone else what Tammy did for us in the Championship.

[PieFacE]

If he has a strong pre-season with the first team, I'd keep him around the first team personally. The boy can finish and we'll create chances. We dropped so many points last season just cos we didn't have a player who could stick the ball in the back of the net, and Archer seems quite efficient with his finishing. 

[Vincenzo]

If he’s good enough he’s old enough 

looks like a finisher to me

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

Gerrard keeps saying he needs a killer. He’ll have Jason Voorhees staring right at him in a few weeks. Im backing him to be kept around this season and work his way into our team by the time the season breaks up for the WC

[MrBlack]

With the world Cup break, he'd be better of going on loan from day 1 if we're considering loaning him from Jan onwards. The benefit of getting him on loan early means we can see if he's still on fire, and then recall him in January for the long second half of the season and he's not stuck with no competitive games for a month.

[VillanousOne]

Why are people so afraid of having three striker options? It's a squad game.

I hope Ings and Watkins show form that means we don't need a third option but judging by last season we need at least four striker options because both Watkins and Ings were rubbish or injured for large parts of the season.

If Bailey or Traore have a good preseason and start strongly then yes maybe Archer should get another loan rather than warm the bench. I personally hope that some more of the youngsters get a chance this season.

[Laughable Chimp]

3 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

Why are people so afraid of having three striker options? It's a squad game.

I hope Ings and Watkins show form that means we don't need a third option but judging by last season we need at least four striker options because both Watkins and Ings were rubbish or injured for large parts of the season.

If Bailey or Traore have a good preseason and start strongly then yes maybe Archer should get another loan rather than warm the bench. I personally hope that some more of the youngsters get a chance this season.

Because chances are, that 3rd academy striker probably isn't going to get a lot of game time over the 2 established premier league strikers. I'd rather prioritize Archer's development by ensuring he gets regular game time at this age. Our squad will be fine without needing him around in case of cover.

 

 

[villa4europe]

9 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

With the world Cup break, he'd be better of going on loan from day 1 if we're considering loaning him from Jan onwards. The benefit of getting him on loan early means we can see if he's still on fire, and then recall him in January for the long second half of the season and he's not stuck with no competitive games for a month.

Championship shuts down for the group stage so he'd still have time off but not as much as the PL players

Its hard to juggle it with the WC, I think it's going to be 12 PL games + the early rounds of the league Cup before the break, if Ollie gets in the England squad he'll no doubt have an extended break, archer will get a lot of time to train with the remainder of the first team, maybe with the fitness and conditioning staff too, the older pros get a week or two holiday, see which of the hungry youngsters don't jet off to dubai

If he was dropping in to league 1 then it's a no brainer but I think the WC break could be a really good time to be at BMH 

[OutByEaster?]

21 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

Why are people so afraid of having three striker options? It's a squad game.

Right now, as things stand, I don't think he is our third striking option. I think he's behind Davis.

 

[PaulC]

32 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Because chances are, that 3rd academy striker probably isn't going to get a lot of game time over the 2 established premier league strikers. I'd rather prioritize Archer's development by ensuring he gets regular game time at this age. Our squad will be fine without needing him around in case of cover.

 

 

I don't get this. Hes not a kid, he will be 21 in December and I dont see any reason why why he wont get game time . Certainly at the very least he will be a great impact sub. 

[VillanousOne]

24 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Right now, as things stand, I don't think he is our third striking option. I think he's behind Davis.

 

The thing is Davis has had plenty of chances (appreciate he should have had a longer run in the team) but scored 3 goals in 73 appearances (again i know that would be different had he started more) but he has never looked likely to score many goals.

Plus Davis is older and I agree that either he should be involved in our first team or sold, I presume he will be sold to Forest. Not saying I want him sold either.

Archer looks like a natural finisher, Davis isn't. Archer is 20, he's had two loans in a row, unless he gets a loan with a Prem team I don't know what else he is going to learn with another championship loan. How many loans did JJ have before he got his chance - one loan at Doncaster? Yet both players are doing the business at U21 level. Archer has a lot to learn and isn't yet on JJ's level but he's made huge leaps in the last year.

As much as I like Ings and Watkins, I don't rate them as the players to get us the results we need to show progress. We need someone who can get onto and finish through balls from Phil and Emi. As pointed out in another thread, 50% of Emi's through balls weren't scored.

If we sign another striker and move Ings on then it's a different conversation, same if Bailey catches fire.

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by VillanousOne

[nick76]

55 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Right now, as things stand, I don't think he is our third striking option. I think he's behind Davis.

 

Depends what you are looking for in the game, if you are looking for a goal then after Ings and Watkins, then it would be Archer, if you are looking to see out the game it would be Davis.  Horses for courses thing, I think they are level in choice.  

I’d personally choose Archer but that’s no shock is it but trying to be objective I’d go with my first paragraph.

[MrBlack]

2 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Championship shuts down for the group stage so he'd still have time off but not as much as the PL players

Its hard to juggle it with the WC, I think it's going to be 12 PL games + the early rounds of the league Cup before the break, if Ollie gets in the England squad he'll no doubt have an extended break, archer will get a lot of time to train with the remainder of the first team, maybe with the fitness and conditioning staff too, the older pros get a week or two holiday, see which of the hungry youngsters don't jet off to dubai

If he was dropping in to league 1 then it's a no brainer but I think the WC break could be a really good time to be at BMH 

This actually makes me want him to go to the Championship even more. Gets a bit of a break, but not too much (which will help to avoid burnout given the u21 world Cup is next summer).

If he's in a decent side, and scores for fun, it will do his confidence (not that it seems to be needed) the world of good.

Sure we could arrange for him to come back to bodymoor if we wanted to, but given a lot of our first team won't be around it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for him to be away.

[TRO]

On 11/06/2022 at 19:23, OutByEaster? said:

I don't know if it's because I saw so much of the very average Cameron Archer that existed before last season, but I'm not as convinced as many here seem to be that he's a future starter.

Up until the beginning of the season that just ended, if you'd told me he was capable of playing in the Championship I'd have laughed. He's absolutely come on leaps and bounds last season though, he's more confident, he's stronger, more direct and he's found the confidence to try things and to finish with real calmness and ability.

Right now though, if you were to ask me where he'll end up in his career, I'd say it would be as a good Championship player, not a Premier league striker.

He's still got plenty of time to prove me wrong, but next season I'd like to see him back in the Championship and continuing to develop and score goals.

 

Didn't David Platt just burst on to the scene, from relatively no where(4th Division)......then the goal against Belgium and his career was launched in explosive fashion.

Confidence, is hard to quantify, and it can have a remarkable effect on players.

as you say, its hard to say if it will continue for certain......but seeing the things he does and the technique he employs, I think he will turn out to be special.

[Adam2003]

7 hours ago, MrBlack said:

With the world Cup break, he'd be better of going on loan from day 1 if we're considering loaning him from Jan onwards.

With the World Cup he’ll need to be banging in the goals in the PL early in the season if he’s going to make the England squad

[Adam2003]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

Didn't David Platt just burst on to the scene, from relatively no where(4th Division)......then the goal against Belgium and his career was launched in explosive fashion.

Platty had played 100+ games (and scored 40 goals) for Villa before the goal against Belgium so there was a bit of stuff in that ‘……’ in your post but I know what you mean!

[Laughable Chimp]

8 hours ago, PaulC said:

I don't get this. Hes not a kid, he will be 21 in December and I dont see any reason why why he wont get game time . Certainly at the very least he will be a great impact sub. 

What, 21 is still very young for a striker. Plenty of players still get loaned out at this age. Tammy Abraham for example.

The premier league is a completely different beast. We still have no idea whether he is good enough at this stage to even be a great impact sub. Its very difficult to make your mark on the game when you're given 5-10 mins at the end of every couple of games. Just ask Keinan Davis.