Cameron Archer

[Delphinho123]

If he was to go on loan, I’d like to see him go to Norwich. They’ll be right up there again and he’ll get plenty of chances you’d imagine. 

Personally, I don’t fully agree with the clamour to keep him around this season. I’d much prefer him to play 35/40 games in the Championship than a handful here and there in cup games. 

But then I don’t know what the club thinks of his ability and like others have said, look how well Ramsey did sticking around! But, I feel like Carney wasted a season. 

Tough one. I trust the club to get it right. 

[MWARLEY2]

26 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

If he was to go on loan, I’d like to see him go to Norwich. They’ll be right up there again and he’ll get plenty of chances you’d imagine. 

Personally, I don’t fully agree with the clamour to keep him around this season. I’d much prefer him to play 35/40 games in the Championship than a handful here and there in cup games. 

But then I don’t know what the club thinks of his ability and like others have said, look how well Ramsey did sticking around! But, I feel like Carney wasted a season. 

Tough one. I trust the club to get it right. 

Got to either get past club legend Pukki or partner him though. What system does Deano play at Norwich. And didnt they spend alot on that Josh Sargeant? 

Agree with you though. Playing for a free flowing side might get him scoring 25 plus 

[OutByEaster?]

I don't know if it's because I saw so much of the very average Cameron Archer that existed before last season, but I'm not as convinced as many here seem to be that he's a future starter.

Up until the beginning of the season that just ended, if you'd told me he was capable of playing in the Championship I'd have laughed. He's absolutely come on leaps and bounds last season though, he's more confident, he's stronger, more direct and he's found the confidence to try things and to finish with real calmness and ability.

Right now though, if you were to ask me where he'll end up in his career, I'd say it would be as a good Championship player, not a Premier league striker.

He's still got plenty of time to prove me wrong, but next season I'd like to see him back in the Championship and continuing to develop and score goals.

 

[Adam2003]

38 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Right now though, if you were to ask me where he'll end up in his career, I'd say it would be as a good Championship player, not a Premier league striker.

He's still got plenty of time to prove me wrong, but next season I'd like to see him back in the Championship and continuing to develop and score goals.

Don’t think anyone would disagree that you might be right but the question is just where is he best placed to find that out. We know he can score goals in the Champ. So let’s see where he is vis-a-vis a PL squad for a few weeks at least. Won’t hurt his development to wait until Jan for a loan if that is the best route. Likewise if Gerrard doesn’t think he’ll give him minutes, by all means we can get him out sooner.

[MWARLEY2]

39 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't know if it's because I saw so much of the very average Cameron Archer that existed before last season, but I'm not as convinced as many here seem to be that he's a future starter.

Up until the beginning of the season that just ended, if you'd told me he was capable of playing in the Championship I'd have laughed. He's absolutely come on leaps and bounds last season though, he's more confident, he's stronger, more direct and he's found the confidence to try things and to finish with real calmness and ability.

Right now though, if you were to ask me where he'll end up in his career, I'd say it would be as a good Championship player, not a Premier league striker.

He's still got plenty of time to prove me wrong, but next season I'd like to see him back in the Championship and continuing to develop and score goals.

 

Totally get that point of view and because of where we are aspiring to get to , it will be even harder for our youth to break through and become top 6 players in the hardest league in the world. 

BUT its how he scores goals is what makes him different from say a Gabby or Vassell when they came through. They were all about pace pace pace and getting clear of defenders on the break . Whereas Cam is all about the penalty area or just outside.  He places all of his goal. Never blasts them. And the fact he is genuinely the most 2 footed striker we have had in my memory. He also has such a great first touch. Instant control. I am convinced we would have heard so much more about him if he hadnt had his growth spurt so late.  Even looking at him playing for Solihull last season you could see the growth physically from that season to this. He was tiny 2 years ago.  Tiny. 

He is a striker but he never had the physical attributes to be one up unto this season so was played alot on the wing. Now he can hold off players and has the power to hit the ball harder but with the unerring accuracy he has always had. 

I am not really bothered either way if he plays for us next season , but i hope he is in our long term plans. He deserves to be and even taking off the claret and blue glasses i think he will be on merit

 

[Keyblade]

7 hours ago, Steero113 said:

Just had a look at Defoe's career, and for someone who I held up there as an elite striker its amazing that he never had a season above 18 league goals. Very surprising. 

Having said that, I would be delighted if Cameron gets to his level!

He's probably spent most of his career playing in a 2 or behind in the pecking order. Think West Ham and maybe Portsmouth were the only times he was the bonafide first choice striker. His goals to game ratio is pretty good especially considering he's been playing for almost a decade after he should have retired.

[Guest av1]

53 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't know if it's because I saw so much of the very average Cameron Archer that existed before last season, but I'm not as convinced as many here seem to be that he's a future starter.

Up until the beginning of the season that just ended, if you'd told me he was capable of playing in the Championship I'd have laughed. He's absolutely come on leaps and bounds last season though, he's more confident, he's stronger, more direct and he's found the confidence to try things and to finish with real calmness and ability.

Right now though, if you were to ask me where he'll end up in his career, I'd say it would be as a good Championship player, not a Premier league striker.

He's still got plenty of time to prove me wrong, but next season I'd like to see him back in the Championship and continuing to develop and score goals.

 

I don’t watch youth football mate, nor did I follow his time at Solihull, so you clearly know more about the kid than me. What I would say though (without going OT) is that prior to last season I really didn’t understand the hype around Jacob Ramsey. Sometimes players can improve massively over the course of 6/12 months. 
 

Hopefully Cameron will be the same, some of his finishing for Preston and England looks really natural. 

[MrBlack]

4 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

If he was to go on loan, I’d like to see him go to Norwich. They’ll be right up there again and he’ll get plenty of chances you’d imagine. 

Personally, I don’t fully agree with the clamour to keep him around this season. I’d much prefer him to play 35/40 games in the Championship than a handful here and there in cup games. 

But then I don’t know what the club thinks of his ability and like others have said, look how well Ramsey did sticking around! But, I feel like Carney wasted a season. 

Tough one. I trust the club to get it right. 

Carney was competing for a position where we had a wealth of options, all of whom were playing well.

if we keep last seasons formation, Archer is third in line for 2 potential positions, as it stands. And neither of our strikers were killing it last season.

If we sign another striker, I assume we'll be selling one of Ings or Watkins. So that holds true, unless we start playing two 10's.

I can see him getting more time thsn Carney did if he stays with us. But can also see the benefit in either loaning him out until Jan, or keeping him around until Jan to see if he delivers before then.

In effect, whatever we end up doing with him,  I'm happy, and think he'll smash it wherever he ends up. Very interested to see how if he continues his trajectory a la Ramsey.

[WHY]

4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't know if it's because I saw so much of the very average Cameron Archer that existed before last season, but I'm not as convinced as many here seem to be that he's a future starter.

Up until the beginning of the season that just ended, if you'd told me he was capable of playing in the Championship I'd have laughed. He's absolutely come on leaps and bounds last season though, he's more confident, he's stronger, more direct and he's found the confidence to try things and to finish with real calmness and ability.

Right now though, if you were to ask me where he'll end up in his career, I'd say it would be as a good Championship player, not a Premier league striker.

He's still got plenty of time to prove me wrong, but next season I'd like to see him back in the Championship and continuing to develop and score goals.

 

Look at Harry Kane’s loan spells and nobody could have predicted he would go on to be Englands greatest ever goal scorer. Football is a funny old game and sometimes you just need a break. I’m not for one minute suggesting Archer will have a career anywhere near as good as Kanes but he’s proved himself whenever called upon so far for which ever team he’s played for. 

[Keyblade]

9 hours ago, WHY said:

Look at Harry Kane’s loan spells and nobody could have predicted he would go on to be Englands greatest ever goal scorer. Football is a funny old game and sometimes you just need a break. I’m not for one minute suggesting Archer will have a career anywhere near as good as Kanes but he’s proved himself whenever called upon so far for which ever team he’s played for. 

The break in Kane's case being a free kick deflected off Nathan Baker's bruised head at Villa Park.

[CVByrne]

14 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't know if it's because I saw so much of the very average Cameron Archer that existed before last season, but I'm not as convinced as many here seem to be that he's a future starter.

Up until the beginning of the season that just ended, if you'd told me he was capable of playing in the Championship I'd have laughed. He's absolutely come on leaps and bounds last season though, he's more confident, he's stronger, more direct and he's found the confidence to try things and to finish with real calmness and ability.

Right now though, if you were to ask me where he'll end up in his career, I'd say it would be as a good Championship player, not a Premier league striker.

He's still got plenty of time to prove me wrong, but next season I'd like to see him back in the Championship and continuing to develop and score goals.

 

Worth taking into account how rapidly players can improve. I'd consider Archers form this season and how he has progressed as a positive and worth of more consideration than his previous seasons. Its far more often players look great at youth level and don't progress. 

We don't know how far he will progress. He is very exciting though and I think another full season we should see what he's about. I think at least half of the season should be spent on Loan but I'd like to see him kept around until Jan as he should get a taste of some Prem football and Cup games. Plus a training camp during World Cup.  

[MaVilla]

16 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

If he was to go on loan, I’d like to see him go to Norwich. They’ll be right up there again and he’ll get plenty of chances you’d imagine. 

Personally, I don’t fully agree with the clamour to keep him around this season. I’d much prefer him to play 35/40 games in the Championship than a handful here and there in cup games. 

But then I don’t know what the club thinks of his ability and like others have said, look how well Ramsey did sticking around! But, I feel like Carney wasted a season. 

Tough one. I trust the club to get it right. 

i wouldnt want him to go to Norwich.

He nedds to be playing as the first choice striker (if the team plays 1 striker), or as first choice as one of two strikers (if they play 2 up top).

Norwich have Pukki, who is one of the best, and most proven strikers in the Champ, Archer wouldnt be getting as much game time there as he might at a slightly lower team.

Archer imo needs a full season, playing almost every game, week in week out, for me Norwich is one of the few Champ teams i 100% wouldnt send him on loan to.

[tinker]

Needs to play as the lead striker in a championship team or 2nd striker in a premier League team. Seen Rangers mentioned in the press which, if he's first choice, wouldn't be a bad move as it would get him used to playing in front of big crowds. Big season for him. 

[sidcow]

20 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

Does anyone on here think he has some similarities to Defoe?

 

People are weird. He's a shoe in for Duncan Ferguson in my opinion. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

18 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

If he was to go on loan, I’d like to see him go to Norwich. They’ll be right up there again and he’ll get plenty of chances you’d imagine. 

Personally, I don’t fully agree with the clamour to keep him around this season. I’d much prefer him to play 35/40 games in the Championship than a handful here and there in cup games. 

But then I don’t know what the club thinks of his ability and like others have said, look how well Ramsey did sticking around! But, I feel like Carney wasted a season. 

Tough one. I trust the club to get it right. 

Carney wasted his own season by not performing when given the opportunity. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

15 hours ago, av1 said:

I don’t watch youth football mate, nor did I follow his time at Solihull, so you clearly know more about the kid than me. What I would say though (without going OT) is that prior to last season I really didn’t understand the hype around Jacob Ramsey. Sometimes players can improve massively over the course of 6/12 months. 
 

Hopefully Cameron will be the same, some of his finishing for Preston and England looks really natural. 

100% this. Frankly, I hadn't even heard of Archer before last season, so I can only judge him on the player I see now, rather than the player he was 12+ months ago. But if you had asked me 12 months ago what i though Jacob Ramsey was going to be, I'd have said upper Championship or lower Premier League at best. Turns out, I am almost certainly wrong about his ceiling. 

We need to normalise being wrong. 

[Adam2003]

49 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Carney wasted his own season by not performing when given the opportunity. 

Carney did perfectly fine for any 18 year old - it’s not a wasted season to train with a PL club and get a handful of appearances. He’s years younger than Archer and will be fine.

(I know you were responding to someone else’s point not having a pop at Carney in particular).

[Adam2003]

47 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

We need to normalise being wrong

It’s fairly normalised on VT to be fair

[TheAuthority]

Just now, Adam2003 said:

It’s fairly normalised on VT to be fair

No it isn't

[Enda]

51 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

We need to normalise being wrong. 

I’m really glad they named a stand after Doug Ellis.