Ratings & Reactions: Leeds v Villa

[RadioTom]

So I’ve gone from utter anger and disbelief, to pride. 

Yes, Leeds brought our winning run to an end. But only by a completely unfair goal (which - I think - was offside) and through blatant cheating from a player who has a face that I think everyone outside of Leeds would like to punch. 

I genuinely think if Anwar and Jimmy D stay on the pitch, we win that. We were causing problems on the wing all game. 

They look a good side, but we more than matched them. 

Bring on the playoffs. 12 games unbeaten, Villa fans managing and captaining us, and a genuine connection between fans and players that I can’t remember being as strong as it is now. Well, since I started following the team in the early 00s, anyway. 

Mings is a colossus, Axel a rock and our midfield is absolutely stacked. 

We’ve always had a proud history, but now - for the first time in over a decade - it feels like we really do have a bright future, too. 

Prepared? You bet we are. 

 

 

[Brumstopdogs]

Leeds were out of order to take advantage of the situation (player injury) but we have to learn to play to the whistle as we could have lost the game if they hadn't let us score the equaliser.

 

[villatillidie1980]

1 hour ago, Adam2003 said:

I’m fine with that but was replying to the point that Norwich would be on the beach.

You are right, but I meant from a gaining promotion perspective 

[Thug]

2 hours ago, YLN said:

Bollocks

How can you reply ‘bollocks’ to what is actually a fact?

you might not agree with the sentiment, but what was said is actually 100% true.

the rules of football state:

• The referee stops the match if, in his opinion, a player is seriously injured and ensures that he is removed from the field of play. The referee allows play to continue until the ball is out of play if a player is, in his opinion, only slightly injured.

The referee did not HAVE stop the game.

Leeds did not HAVE to kick it out.

Bielsa did not HAVE to give us a goal back.

Leeds broke no rules. What they did was scummy.. but they broke no rules.

 

Play to the whistle. Do your job. When the ball goes out, have as much of a go as you want.

But the fact of the matter is that we only drew because Bielsa decided to act a gentleman in a game that meannt **** all. We should have lost, and if that was the play off final, we would not have been given a ‘gimme’ by Bielsa.

Junxs is right in everything that he said.

Let the ref decide about injuries both your own and the oppositions, like the law of the game states.

So ‘bollocks’ to your ‘bollocks’

[Brumerican]

 

[terrytini]

Well.

What the Hell was that !?

Bonkers. 

Great fun.

And great for us..........no Winning Run ‘ monkey’ going into the last 4 games. .......yet we’ve been stopped in a way that’s not a let down etc.........Leeds failing to beat 10 man us at Home.......Jack getting a poor game out the way......a moral Win.....all relatively unscathed.

Smiths decision to field a full strength side ( which I didn’t agree with) completely vindicated, we’ve shown them what we are about, we’ve been up for the fight. With hindsight taking our foot of the gas and giving Leeds an easier game, and/ or a Win, would’ve been a negative for us.

Leeds definitely at fault over the goal....not playing on ( I wish everyone would) but all but stopping the game THEN playing on.

Having said that I don’t subscribe to the view there was anything scummy, or cheating,  about it.....I think the players just did what they are trained/ programmed to do.....his mate gave him a run and a call, the pass was on, so off he went.

Unlike some I don’t really think Bielsa did anything great.

Nothing at stake, he didn’t want to hand us a moral victory. Without knowing his thoughts I can’t know whether it was honourable, or clever. Doesn’t really matter anyway.

Loved the reaction it prompted in us. For too long we’ve been very lightweight mentally, and very timid “ game” wise.

As for Jack....I’ve not seen a player so deliberately and consistently targeted. It really is a case of if he gets the ball and runs, kick him.

Havent cared who we have to play,  still don’t.  If we play as we have been, and have that important bit of luck all sides need, we will go up.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, limpid said:

Yes you can. The text editor remember the contents when you change page.

I need to go on a course

[Vive_La_Villa]

Everyone seems to be forgetting it was offside anyway so justice was done. Next season in the Premier League Var would have chalked the goal off for offside.

[Nigel]

Away from all the hubbub of the goals I thought Leeds were quite good.

They were quite inventive with their passing and good running with and without the ball, but I cant help be left with the impression of style over substance.

Their midfield was strong today but boy they do lack anything when they get to the final 3rd. I always wondered why (in highlights) they always seem to be piling forward yet they actually dont score that often, its a bit clearer now.

They did well today but it has to be taken into consideration they did nothing till Bamford got us reduced to 10 men and we lost our only striker.

They had 20 minutes against a severely weakened team, at home, yet couldnt put us away.

I feel a bit easier about meeting them at wembly should we get there.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Nigel

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Well.

What the Hell was that !?

Bonkers. 

Great fun.

And great for us..........no Winning Run ‘ monkey’ going into the last 4 games. .......yet we’ve been stopped in a way that’s not a let down etc.........Leeds failing to beat 10 man us at Home.......Jack getting a poor game out the way......a moral Win.....all relatively unscathed.

Smiths decision to field a full strength side ( which I didn’t agree with) completely vindicated, we’ve shown them what we are about, we’ve been up for the fight. With hindsight taking our foot of the gas and giving Leeds an easier game, and/ or a Win, would’ve been a negative for us.

Leeds definitely at fault over the goal....not playing on ( I wish everyone would) but all but stopping the game THEN playing on.

Having said that I don’t subscribe to the view there was anything scummy, or cheating,  about it.....I think the players just did what they are trained/ programmed to do.....his mate gave him a run and a call, the pass was on, so off he went.

Unlike some I don’t really think Bielsa did anything great.

Nothing at stake, he didn’t want to hand us a moral victory. Without knowing his thoughts I can’t know whether it was honourable, or clever. Doesn’t really matter anyway.

Loved the reaction it prompted in us. For too long we’ve been very lightweight mentally, and very timid “ game” wise.

As for Jack....I’ve not seen a player so deliberately and consistently targeted. It really is a case of if he gets the ball and runs, kick him.

Havent cared who we have to play,  still don’t.  If we play as we have been, and have that important bit of luck all sides need, we will go up.

Eden Hazard?

It is frustrating Terry, but making an observation not a criticism, some think he is being a bit theatrical at times.

I think some of the fouls can be avoided by moving/releasing the ball quicker and looking for the return as opposed to a free kick.

I think we had a mixed bag today.....Defence great.... midfield and forwards surrendered the initiative for me.

Teams like Leeds ,Norwich and Sheff Utd and Brentford at times, have players who move the ball quickly and battle for the ball, usually keeping it as opposed to losing it easily....We can get overrun by such teams at times.

We still have to play Norwich, but Albion-Leeds-Sheff Utd have all taken 4 points from us, not conceding the double granted.....but there is a reason why they have done that. I don't think they are better technically, but I think they have a better work ethic and move the ball quicker they play  with high intensity and urgency.....not all our players are guilty, but we have a few and at this level its a few too many.

If we want win these play offs we have to be at it work wise and stop giving the ball away cheaply.....We lost against Fulham by surrendering the initiative and subsequently possession and by the time we got interested it was too late.

We can't afford to do that again.

Ps We had better and more clear cut chances today, more clinical and we would have won it....but possession let us down.

 

[foreveryoung]

Fair play to Bielsa, he really didn't want to give us that goal, you can tell by his reaction with Terry after. The players are knobs, but Bielsa gets my respect, not many managers would have even considered that. imagine Klopp

[terrytini]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I think you make a fair point.

for me we had too many not showing the required aggression and intensity....we have a few to many who don't like the physicality, they don't thrive in it.....whereas Mings loves it.

take out the 2 Cbs and a "get out of jail card" for McGinn on 13 yellows.....who showed aggression and ball control?

The teams have finished where they have for a reason.

I agree with you, we will have a tough time making it.

I have no idea what the mindset was going in to this game, but it needs to be more clinical going in to the play offs.

 

Very much disagree.

I thought we were as physical and committed as any side I’ve seen, certainly as much as Leeds, and looked very “ up for the fight” indeed.

In answer to your question I’d say all the back 4, and the midfield 3 ( although Jack was below par). I thought we showed we can match anyone in a game of pace and fight.

Taylor and Elmo were very good. Steer had 1 save to make. We passed the ball calmly in possession - even out of our own box - and defended like tigers when at 10 men. They had the upper hand in midfield second half but that’s just the ebb and flow....this game was way, way, more important to them than to us.

Finished where they have for a reason ? ( not finished yet)....7 point gap.......I’d say that gap is due to us not having this Manager all season unlike them

...in 33 games since Smith arrived we are 61 Points to their 60.......despite conceeding a last minute Winner to them at VP and playing with 10 for a quarter of the game today.

In that time we’ve scored 61 and let in 39..........they have scored 49 and let in 38.

...in the second half of those games ( the last 17), we are 8 Points better than them...

In that period weve scored 30 and Conceeded 14......they have scored 24 and Conceeded 17.

Under Smith we are a better side than them all over the pitch, we are just as up for it as anyone, and we are on the Up whereas they are not.

As it happens, it also felt to me like today was their last hurrah. Could be wrong - of course- but I can see Derby beating them

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, Nigel said:

Away from all the hubbub of the goals I thought Leeds were quite good.

They were quite inventive with their passing and good running with and without the ball, but I cant help be left with the impression of style over substance.

Their midfield was strong today but boy they do lack anything when they get to the final 3rd. I always wondered why (in highlights) they always seem to be piling forward yet they actually dont score that often, its a bit clearer now.

They did well today but it has to be taken into consideration they did nothing till Bamford got us reduced to 10 men and we lost our only striker.

They had 20 minutes against a severely weakened team, at home, yet couldnt put us away.

I feel a bit easier about meeting them at wembly should we get there.

I seen it a bit different Nige.....but I have to temper my thoughts by my appreciation for the 10 win run.....I thought we started very brightly and could have had a couple of early goals and a penalty that was ignored....but gradually, I felt we surrendered the initiative and they just grew with it.

I felt we needed to mix it with them a bit more than we did  McGinn was on a tightrope, Jack was not having one of his best and Conor was out of position playing that role, that requires a foot in, like Kalvin Phillips......The forwards showed cameo's of aggression and determination

and we ended up with what we got.

Don't forget Wigan beat them with 10 men and Brentford showed them what initiative they had.....I thought ( sorry to be blunt) we allowed them to look good....We have to learn to out work teams, it not just about technical prowess.I thought we worked passively not aggressively.

[terrytini]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

Eden Hazard?

It is frustrating Terry, but making an observation not a criticism, some think he is being a bit theatrical at times.

I think some of the fouls can be avoided by moving/releasing the ball quicker and looking for the return as opposed to a free kick.

I think we had a mixed bag today.....Defence great.... midfield and forwards surrendered the initiative for me.

Teams like Leeds ,Norwich and Sheff Utd and Brentford at times, have players who move the ball quickly and battle for the ball, usually keeping it as opposed to losing it easily....We can get overrun by such teams at times.

We still have to play Norwich, but Albion-Leeds-Sheff Utd have all taken 4 points from us, not conceding the double granted.....but there is a reason why they have done that. I don't think they are better technically, but I think they have a better work ethic and move the ball quicker they play  with high intensity and urgency.....not all our players are guilty, but we have a few and at this level its a few too many.

If we want win these play offs we have to be at it work wise and stop giving the ball away cheaply.....We lost against Fulham by surrendering the initiative and subsequently possession and by the time we got interested it was too late.

We can't afford to do that again.

Ps We had better and more clear cut chances today, more clinical and we would have won it....but possession let us down.

 

I highlighted this bit but could’ve chosen others.

As with the previous Post, couldn’t disagree more.

Half of what you said simply doesn’t relate to us under Smith....particularly last years Play Off....we are nothing like that team now. Nothing like them. The surrendering of possession was a key part of Bruce’s approach and simply doesn’t describe us as we are now.

As for the passing and movement, I’ve not seen anyone better than us at it.

Better work ethic ? I’ve not seen a Villa team play with as much commitment and desire as this one in years, and years......and, it’s not just opinion. results show it.

 

[Nigel]

57 minutes ago, TRO said:

I seen it a bit different Nige.....but I have to temper my thoughts by my appreciation for the 10 win run.....I thought we started very brightly and could have had a couple of early goals and a penalty that was ignored....but gradually, I felt we surrendered the initiative and they just grew with it.

I felt we needed to mix it with them a bit more than we did  McGinn was on a tightrope, Jack was not having one of his best and Conor was out of position playing that role, that requires a foot in, like Kalvin Phillips......The forwards showed cameo's of aggression and determination

and we ended up with what we got.

Don't forget Wigan beat them with 10 men and Brentford showed them what initiative they had.....I thought ( sorry to be blunt) we allowed them to look good....We have to learn to out work teams, it not just about technical prowess.I thought we worked passively not aggressively.

I think we are saying the same thing tbh.

I wasnt saying we were any great shakes at all, in fact i thought we were a bit sluggish, we showed them a bit too much respect at times and we missed Whelans defensive game and Tammy's hold up play.

It was more my thoughts on them and their (in)ability to take advantage of that.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Nigel

[Lord Willard]

If we play them again this season. We need to pass the ball and spread the ball quicker. We also need to pile the pressure on in the last 20 minutes. They were starting to fade IMO

[thunderball]

4 hours ago, tinker said:

They play the ref very well , and were lucky to finish with 11 on the pitch. Grealish was quiet after that tackle and I can see why. How Leeds will keep the card count down in the playoffs is going to be interesting just got to hope premier League refs get the nod for these games. 

I would be happy with Mike Dean. We have nothing to fear from top drawer refs, we have suffered from poor decisions this season, and from memory rarely benefitted if ever.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Very much disagree.

I thought we were as physical and committed as any side I’ve seen, certainly as much as Leeds, and looked very “ up for the fight” indeed.

In answer to your question I’d say all the back 4, and the midfield 3 ( although Jack was below par). I thought we showed we can match anyone in a game of pace and fight.

Taylor and Elmo were very good. Steer had 1 save to make. We passed the ball calmly in possession - even out of our own box - and defended like tigers when at 10 men. They had the upper hand in midfield second half but that’s just the ebb and flow....this game was way, way, more important to them than to us.

Finished where they have for a reason ? ( not finished yet)....7 point gap.......I’d say that gap is due to us not having this Manager all season unlike them

...in 33 games since Smith arrived we are 61 Points to their 60.......despite conceeding a last minute Winner to them at VP and playing with 10 for a quarter of the game today.

In that time we’ve scored 61 and let in 39..........they have scored 49 and let in 38.

...in the second half of those games ( the last 17), we are 8 Points better than them...

In that period weve scored 30 and Conceeded 14......they have scored 24 and Conceeded 17.

Under Smith we are a better side than them all over the pitch, we are just as up for it as anyone, and we are on the Up whereas they are not.

As it happens, it also felt to me like today was their last hurrah. Could be wrong - of course- but I can see Derby beating them

The midfield is/was Jack-John & Conor.....I think they were all below par for various reasons and surrendered the initiative.....John is understandable on 13 Yellows at the start......Jack was below par as everyone agrees....Conor is not a DM and hasn't got the necessary ingredients to play it......so who is going to win the ball and turn the ball over?

The defence was great by the way, hence the result.

We invited them back in to the game after a bright start.....This is still a team Wigan and Brentford, showed them the way.....They are not better than us technically, just have more players than us that work harder...and the tide turned for them.

Kodjia, I don't think won a duel with his centre Backs and the wingers faded....add that to the midfield and you have your answer.

Sorry Terry.....I disagree with your first few lines, we defended like Tigers because we lost the midfield territorially and it wasn't the ebb and flow, it was the levels of performance that wasn't there for whatever reason.....We want 4th place so it should be important to us too.

I take your point about the what if's in terms of manager....but my observation was not about Dean Smith, he has done magnificent....My point is we have lost 4 points from the top 3 and personally, I think I can see why....We have players who are better than the top 3, but we have some too that are not better.....and its the overall that makes it difficult in times like this.( meaning the 11 players playing)

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, Lord Willard said:

If we play them again this season. We need to pass the ball and spread the ball quicker. We also need to pile the pressure on in the last 20 minutes. They were starting to fade IMO

your right.

and keep it, without losing it in a duel.

[YLN]

58 minutes ago, Thug said:

How can you reply ‘bollocks’ to what is actually a fact?

you might not agree with the sentiment, but what was said is actually 100% true.

the rules of football state:

• The referee stops the match if, in his opinion, a player is seriously injured and ensures that he is removed from the field of play. The referee allows play to continue until the ball is out of play if a player is, in his opinion, only slightly injured.

The referee did not HAVE stop the game.

Leeds did not HAVE to kick it out.

Bielsa did not HAVE to give us a goal back.

Leeds broke no rules. What they did was scummy.. but they broke no rules.

 

Play to the whistle. Do your job. When the ball goes out, have as much of a go as you want.

But the fact of the matter is that we only drew because Bielsa decided to act a gentleman in a game that meannt **** all. We should have lost, and if that was the play off final, we would not have been given a ‘gimme’ by Bielsa.

Junxs is right in everything that he said.

Let the ref decide about injuries both your own and the oppositions, like the law of the game states.

So ‘bollocks’ to your ‘bollocks’

Oh maybe something in between is the truth, but anyway let's hear me out. 

The rules were changed some years ago that the ref didn't have to stop the game anymore if there was an injury, but i remember it being considered fair play if the opposition team put the ball out of play if there was an injury to a player. And that was before the rule was changed. So I'm not sure what difference the rule change made. 

In any case it matters not. When a player goes down injured, the team in possession usually puts the ball out. Unless they're in an advanced attacking position in which case it's fair game. But otherwise the opposition team put on pressure and the crowd start getting loud about needing the ball put out. 

In the very rare scenario where teams start taking the piss and going down injured frequently to waste time, then obviously the ball doesn't have to go out and no one expects it to.  That's maybe what the rule change was designed for. 

Where a player seems to be genuinely injured and there has not been multiple similar episodes and the ball is in midfield, then it's in players own interest that the ball go out so they can get treatment. The next time it might be them. That's the scenario we saw today. 

So bollocks to quoting the rule book to me. That's not how the game is played and certainly when a player feign that he's going to put the ball out and then plays a forward pass once everyone has stopped playing, that's contemptuous and i cannot believe anyone is trying to condone it or explain it away with the rule book. Outside of Twitter trolls I mean. 

And my suspicion is that I'll get a reply that quotes the rule book again because opinions on the internet are unchangeable, but at least I've laid out my position.