Ratings & Reactions: Leeds v Villa

[Ponky]

I thought the Leeds players did a great job of bullying the ref into a corner. The fact that he called time for the first half right when they were about to cross it into our box shows that he was getting pretty jack of it (pun intended). 

I really wish refs would start giving yellows for aggressive dissent like that. 

Still it worked in their favour ultimately that 2 strong penalty shouts for us were waved away and they could have had at least one red prior to everything kicking off. 

Finally, there seems to be a growing agenda in the Championship that you can kick the crap out of Jack Grealish and get away with it by manufacturing this narrative that he is a bit of a diver. This is far from the truth in my view. Yes sometimes he will go down a bit easier than he should, but no more than most other players would. And they are still could every day of the week. The reason though that he spends so much time on the deck is that other teams set out to kick him. It is a disgrace to target a player so cynically and then blame him for it. You can probably thank Neil Warnock for that little ploy. 

[AVTuco]

7 hours ago, Thug said:

It’s so strange to see such a varied analysis of what to make of the game today, and I can actually agree with nearly every account I’m reading.

I can see how despite having the majority of the possession, they didn’t really have any clear cut opportunities to score, so I get it when some on here feel like today was a job well done, and feel there is nothing to fear from them.

Personally, I am actually less confident after today’s game.  I think our game plan pretty much relies on controlling the game, and up until today, I can’t remember where we’ve not dominated possession and territorial advantage, let alone be dominated in those areas.

I don’t remember a game where Grealish and McGinn have been so creatively nullified.

Now its one thing to smother those two out the game, but another to manage to do it and still dominate possession.  Most teams have had to double or triple up on Grealish.. they didn’t need to. Yes it wasn’t exactly a gentlemanly way to deal with him, but by hook or by crook they got the job done, and at the end of the day no one will remember how the job got done.

We weren’t helped at all by the fact there was no one holding the ball up top, and have to admit I was bitterly disappointed by JK’s performance today. I know that’s not what his game is about, but when he did get the opportunities to use his strengths, he didn’t manage that either.  We desperately need Tammy fit, and if not, I’d have to say that i’d prefer Davis as the lone man up front, just to hold the thing up there for long enough for us to keep possession - especially against more astute opposition like this lot.

Our defence is stellar. And the turn around from the beginning of the season is nothing short of miraculous. But I worry that the number of shots we allowed today, and the territorial advantage we conceded means it is only a quality strike away from conceding what may well be the only goal of the game against opposition like this.  We were very restricted in our own attacking opportunities, and if they are given an opportunity to shut up shop - I think they’d be very effective at doing so.

In conclusion, I think they are by far the most competent team we wave played so far, and I am loathed to admit that my supreme confidence in walking the play offs has taken admire ran a small dent after today.

Good analysis mate. This is how I see it too. My confidence took a hit also.

And thanks to Bielsa's masterstrike of letting us score, they now look like the victim and we look like the ones that benefitted since they allowed us to score even if it cost them automatic and 200 million.

Edited April 29, 2019 by AVTuco

[tomav84]

45 minutes ago, AVTuco said:

Good analysis mate. This is how I see it too. My confidence took a hit also.

And thanks to Bielsa's masterstrike of letting us score, they now look like the victim and we look like the ones that benefitted since they allowed us to score even if it cost them automatic and 200 million.

have i missed something? they werent getting automatic anyway...i do wonder whether they would have let us had they had a chance. money does strange things to people, and there is no way they'd have let us score if a win would have put them 2nd

[Raver50032]

Nothing else to add to what has already been cycled through the post match mixer... However, I've brought a large packet of sweet popcorn to savour as I spend most of this morning looking through the Match Thread for this game! Really looking forward to some fine entertainment.

Mings MOTM

 

[mjmooney]

FWIW I've spoken to quite a few Leeds fans who are totally embarrassed and  disgusted with their players' behaviour yesterday. 

[TRO]

9 hours ago, Thug said:

It’s so strange to see such a varied analysis of what to make of the game today, and I can actually agree with nearly every account I’m reading.

I can see how despite having the majority of the possession, they didn’t really have any clear cut opportunities to score, so I get it when some on here feel like today was a job well done, and feel there is nothing to fear from them.

Personally, I am actually less confident after today’s game.  I think our game plan pretty much relies on controlling the game, and up until today, I can’t remember where we’ve not dominated possession and territorial advantage, let alone be dominated in those areas.

I don’t remember a game where Grealish and McGinn have been so creatively nullified.

Now its one thing to smother those two out the game, but another to manage to do it and still dominate possession.  Most teams have had to double or triple up on Grealish.. they didn’t need to. Yes it wasn’t exactly a gentlemanly way to deal with him, but by hook or by crook they got the job done, and at the end of the day no one will remember how the job got done.

We weren’t helped at all by the fact there was no one holding the ball up top, and have to admit I was bitterly disappointed by JK’s performance today. I know that’s not what his game is about, but when he did get the opportunities to use his strengths, he didn’t manage that either.  We desperately need Tammy fit, and if not, I’d have to say that i’d prefer Davis as the lone man up front, just to hold the thing up there for long enough for us to keep possession - especially against more astute opposition like this lot.

Our defence is stellar. And the turn around from the beginning of the season is nothing short of miraculous. But I worry that the number of shots we allowed today, and the territorial advantage we conceded means it is only a quality strike away from conceding what may well be the only goal of the game against opposition like this.  We were very restricted in our own attacking opportunities, and if they are given an opportunity to shut up shop - I think they’d be very effective at doing so.

In conclusion, I think they are by far the most competent team we wave played so far, and I am loathed to admit that my supreme confidence in walking the play offs has taken admire ran a small dent after today.

Me too.....but we did miss Tammy's all action display at Centre Forward....it affected our midfield.

I too feel less confident than i did.....I think we have to rely on too few players for any substance.

[Cjay]

Hello.

Thought I'd let you all vent before saying anything (usually dont say anything anyway till the next day).

Thought it was a good game and not the friendly i expected, 2 teams who wanted to win and tried to win.

Whoever it was said you were better defensively, i agree, thought your 2 cbs were your best players by a mile,so many blocks.

Thought we played the better overall (marginally) and caused you problems withour pressing and moved the ball quicker then you but as usual our finishing was very poor and we failed to make the best of good situations, some of it down to your defending some of it just because thats what we'v done all season (we'd be top if this wasn't the case).

Thought you had the best chances, Kodjia especially had that 1 chance where you just have to hit the target, McGinn had the header and you also had 1 or 2 situations where you should have done better although like your defence ours did very well to.

Now for the important bit. . . . Yes Bielsa was right to order us to let you have the goal, you put it out for us so its right to return the favour.

However!!!! You should play to the whistle, your taught that when your like 10.

I dont like this putting the ball out for an "injured" player nonsense, its a sportsman lke gesture in a game full of players who are basically cheats, football isnt an honest game and i just think its a naive unspoken rule that does get taken advantage of.

Bamford is a dick, no excuses for that.

Referee was awful (you will disagree of course with this bit) but i thought he favoured you greatly (as did it seems many other club fans and indeed Benjamin Bloom, dont know if anyone watches his stuff). 

I noticed some complaining about the Cooper tackle on Grealish (good tackle imo but yes in the laws of the game a booking). However with fair play and sportsmanship being a topic for this game was it sportsman like for Grealish to pop up chase the ref and wave imaginary cards before falling down again? Dean Smith saying Grealish deserves "special treatment" is daft, he is the best protected player in the league hence the amount of fouls he gets.

You will point to the fouls and say "look he gets rough treatment" but all that proves is he spends a lot of time on the floor (as does McGinn evidently seeing as he is 2nd).  Just because he gets a lot of fouls doesnt mean he deserves them or gets extra rough treatment (Messi isnt even top 10 in la Liga for fouled).

Thought we kept Grealish quiet anyway, Green looks a talent and caused problems, Mings and Tuenzebe were solid and impressed bringing the ball out, thought Mcginn did ok but reasonably handled and i thought El Ghazi was your biggest threat.

A draw was fair i thought , think it would have ended 0-0 in the end anyway and the teams got a look at each other which is good for the playoffs.

All in all a decent game, both teams deserve credit for going for it and it would certainly make for a tasty Final.

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Cjay

[Davkaus]

 

I agree with most of the rest, but good tackle, really? They're both very lucky to have stayed on the pitch after that. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Davkaus

[Cjay]

6 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

 

I agree with most of the rest, but good tackle, really? They're both very lucky to have stayed on the pitch after that. 

In this day and age yes its not good, but football has become soft and not that many years ago that was a great tackle.

Also not entirely sure how a player is meant to stop himself with the follow through?  

By the laws of the game now its a foul but to me its a full blooded challenge where a defender takes man and ball and tbf had it been Mings on Hernandez i think you guys would say the same mate.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Cjay

[StefanAVFC]

If that was on Hernandez @Cjay you'd be disgusted and rightfully so. It was totally unnecessary force and looking at that pic, he's lucky not to break his ankle/leg.

[Stevo985]

Leeds fans are talking like it was a normal slide tackle and he caught him with his trailing leg.

He absolutely launched himself into that and made absolutely sure he was getting man and ball.

If that had been a red, you wouldn't see many neutrals complaining. Awful tackle.

 

Edit: and for balance I thought McGinn's tackle that he got booked for was awful too. He did lose his footing, but it was still a bad bad challenge.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Stevo985

[StefanAVFC]

23 minutes ago, Cjay said:

By the laws of the game now its a foul but to me its a full blooded challenge where a defender takes man and ball and tbf had it been Mings on Hernandez i think you guys would say the same mate.

During the game I probably would, but looking at the photo of his ankle rolled over I'd state he was lucky to not get sent off. Awful challenge.

[ChrisVillan]

More absolute bollocks. 

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, Cjay said:

However!!!! You should play to the whistle, your taught that when your like 10.

To be fair, i agreed with pretty much everything you said...the cooper tackle i agree was a booking but no more. he was out of control (despite winning the ball) but dont think his aim was to injure jack, which is generally the definition of a red.

The bit of your post i left above, yes you should play to the whistle, but your man stopped...actually stopped...i even think there was a motion like he was about to put it out, before knocking it down the line. in this case, i think we can easily be forgiven for not playing to the whistle and is the reason for the reactions afterwards. it was deliberately deceptive and incredibly unsportsmanlike.

fair play to bielsa for ordering the goal and the players for allowing him through (except that tosspot janssen...imagine had he actually stopped adomah? that would have inflamed the situation once again and i guarantee there would have been more reds...ridiculous behaviour)

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Cjay said:

In this day and age yes its not good, but football has become soft and not that many years ago that was a great tackle.

Also not entirely sure how a player is meant to stop himself with the follow through?  

By the laws of the game now its a foul but to me its a full blooded challenge where a defender takes man and ball and tbf had it been Mings on Hernandez i think you guys would say the same mate.

Talking generally.......The problem is today, many challenges are over aggressive first ( intention wise) with a camouflage of legitimacy to get away with it.......not the other way around.

With our team......I get frustrated because I don't think we ( In the main) are an aggressive team.....We don't clatter opponents,very often... but we get clattered,regularly, it seems a common tactic to stop Villa (sometimes our own fault, granted for not moving the ball quick enough or not giving the stick, back)

I could name them for us who don't show enough natural aggression ( not fouling)....I think it could cost us in the Play Offs.

I was watching Hernandez the other day for Norwich, he is supposed to be an offensive player....He was putting it about and challenging aggressively (without fouling) with aplomb, something a seasoned defender would be proud of....we don't do that other than McGinn.

 

[Robbie09]

3 hours ago, Cjay said:

In this day and age yes its not good, but football has become soft and not that many years ago that was a great tackle.

Also not entirely sure how a player is meant to stop himself with the follow through?  

By the laws of the game now its a foul but to me its a full blooded challenge where a defender takes man and ball and tbf had it been Mings on Hernandez i think you guys would say the same mate.

Cooper set out to take the player and the ball. despicable tackle, he knew what he was doing and there's no defence of him. Leeds set out to stop Grealish at all costs. I lost a lot of respect for your club yesterday as a result of your players actions.

[Cjay]

3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

If that was on Hernandez @Cjay you'd be disgusted and rightfully so. It was totally unnecessary force and looking at that pic, he's lucky not to break his ankle/leg.

As you say though, looking at that pic yes it looks bad but i would imagine quite a few tackles look worse if you freeze frame.

I'm sure i would and you would probably try to defend it to, we are biased lol.

What bothered me most was if Grealish was so hurt why was he immediately up waving fake cards and screaming? 

Thats another horrible thing thats crept into the game, if your hurt fine, but dont try and ref the game and hardly good sportsmanship.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Cjay

[Robbie09]

3 hours ago, Cjay said:

Hello.

Thought I'd let you all vent before saying anything (usually dont say anything anyway till the next day).

Thought it was a good game and not the friendly i expected, 2 teams who wanted to win and tried to win.

Whoever it was said you were better defensively, i agree, thought your 2 cbs were your best players by a mile,so many blocks.

Thought we played the better overall (marginally) and caused you problems withour pressing and moved the ball quicker then you but as usual our finishing was very poor and we failed to make the best of good situations, some of it down to your defending some of it just because thats what we'v done all season (we'd be top if this wasn't the case).

Thought you had the best chances, Kodjia especially had that 1 chance where you just have to hit the target, McGinn had the header and you also had 1 or 2 situations where you should have done better although like your defence ours did very well to.

Now for the important bit. . . . Yes Bielsa was right to order us to let you have the goal, you put it out for us so its right to return the favour.

However!!!! You should play to the whistle, your taught that when your like 10.

I dont like this putting the ball out for an "injured" player nonsense, its a sportsman lke gesture in a game full of players who are basically cheats, football isnt an honest game and i just think its a naive unspoken rule that does get taken advantage of.

Bamford is a dick, no excuses for that.

Referee was awful (you will disagree of course with this bit) but i thought he favoured you greatly (as did it seems many other club fans and indeed Benjamin Bloom, dont know if anyone watches his stuff). 

I noticed some complaining about the Cooper tackle on Grealish (good tackle imo but yes in the laws of the game a booking). However with fair play and sportsmanship being a topic for this game was it sportsman like for Grealish to pop up chase the ref and wave imaginary cards before falling down again? Dean Smith saying Grealish deserves "special treatment" is daft, he is the best protected player in the league hence the amount of fouls he gets.

You will point to the fouls and say "look he gets rough treatment" but all that proves is he spends a lot of time on the floor (as does McGinn evidently seeing as he is 2nd).  Just because he gets a lot of fouls doesnt mean he deserves them or gets extra rough treatment (Messi isnt even top 10 in la Liga for fouled).

Thought we kept Grealish quiet anyway, Green looks a talent and caused problems, Mings and Tuenzebe were solid and impressed bringing the ball out, thought Mcginn did ok but reasonably handled and i thought El Ghazi was your biggest threat.

A draw was fair i thought , think it would have ended 0-0 in the end anyway and the teams got a look at each other which is good for the playoffs.

All in all a decent game, both teams deserve credit for going for it and it would certainly make for a tasty Final.

 

Just Bamford? How about Roberts for his deliberate cheating and Jansson for trying to tackle Albert? All part of the game is it?

[Cjay]

2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

During the game I probably would, but looking at the photo of his ankle rolled over I'd state he was lucky to not get sent off. Awful challenge.

Its during the game that matters though, i think a sending off would have been very harsh, in hindsight within the laws of the game maybe but in hindsight maybe McGinn was a bit fortunate to.

He slipped but that was a tackle full of anger and intent 

[TRO]

17 hours ago, thunderball said:

Maybe Dean will acknowledge that the game needed Whelan and not Hourihane away at a side that presses. 

Green I thought did well, he found his own space. El Ghazi and Jack were targeted successfully. McGinn was under a compromising yellow card cloud and Kodj was just an unfamiliar maverick and he didn’t really take his chances. 

On a positive note, we didn’t really look under too much threat away from home and did enough to win away from home. Defensively we looked solid. Leeds were better over 97 minutes on balance but not sufficiently to deserve a win, nor one where it matters. We looked like we weathered a storm and took it in our stride, we almost had another gear but didn’t need it.

I get that....but when do we Target players successfully?....I mean that respectfully and objectively, not critically.

Outside of Tuanzebe-Mings and McGinn.....I don't see any of our other players mixing it to any degree, no one getting in opposition faces.....Tammy does and boy we missed that on Sunday, Kodjia was left with bits and pieces because he rarely makes the opposition make mistakes.

Even against Blackburn when we won, I was surprised at how many crosses were allowed to come in, when that happens it becomes a lottery, good job we now have good centre Backs.