Ratings & Reactions: Leeds v Villa

[Cjay]

6 minutes ago, Robbie09 said:

I seem to recall him feigning he’d been hit in the head in a previous game against us when replays showed no contact. Odd for someone who allegedly would head a brick

Did he?

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, Cjay said:

And Bamford was a clearing in the woods for what he did.

And Grealish does deceive refs, and you won't agree because he is your player which is fair enough.

And he is a good player,so is Ronaldo and he is famous for deceiving refs as are many good players.

Players like Grealish are the worst for it, flair players who do get kicked more then most they do have a habit of falling down more then most.

Ronaldo, Neymar, Zaha loads of them.

Doesnt mean they arent talented (Grealish is clearly).

 

ok

[Cjay]

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

No? Where have I? What he did to Ibra was indefensible, not sure what it has to do with Cooper almost breaking Grealish's ankle though.

This is so bizarre. You're not only inconsistent with your views but you're also projecting pretty hard onto me.

 

I asked if you had, was referring to the Oliviera one.

It was a reference to bias fans have.

[Cjay]

5 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

not that you're suggesting refs stop play for all injuries, but i'm already skeptical as to how many players clutching their heads actually have head injuries or whether they're just trying to get the game stopped. maybe the answer is just to say across the board tough tits if your man is down, carry on unless the ref stops it. i wonder if yesterday's events will prompt the discussion, or perhaps teams could agree on an approach pre game between the managers and/or captains

If a player is injured a ref stops it, if he doesnt the game goes on as normal, then there is no grey area.

I'm sceptical whenever any player goes down ours included.

Tbf players arent meant to kick it out but they do anyway.

[StefanAVFC]

7 minutes ago, Cjay said:

I asked if you had, was referring to the Oliviera one.

It was a reference to bias fans have.

The Oliviera one widely regarded as an accident?

If it's intentional then i would strongly abhor his behaviour (like the Ibra one) but I've watched it hundreds of times and I'm not clear there's intent. The FA agree with me. No one knows other than Tyrone.

And again, not really sure on the relevancy of it either. Your CB went in strongly on our CM. It was a bad challenge, and he was lucky to escape injury. If it were our player on yours, you would agree with us.

Edited April 29, 2019 by StefanAVFC

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Cjay said:

If a player is injured a ref stops it, if he doesnt the game goes on as normal, then there is no grey area.

I'm sceptical whenever any player goes down ours included.

Tbf players arent meant to kick it out but they do anyway.

I totally agree. That's our fault. We shouldn't have done it. I'd be interested to see your reaction if we didn't, and we scored though.

But we did kick it out. It's basic sportsmanship to return the favour.

Not only that but your bloke slowed down, pretended to kick it out and passed it through catching everyone off guard. That's scummy.

[Stevo985]

11 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Yep, it's not hard to grasp. But the endless projection is just bizarre.

We are all very capable of stating what our own players did was right or wrong, without bias.

In the Middle Ages you could punch people and break their legs. Football's gone soft. It should all still be legal

[Cjay]

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

The Oliviera one widely regarded as an accident?

If it's intentional then i would strongly abhor his behaviour (like the Ibra one) but I've watched it hundreds of times and I'm not clear there's intent.

And again, not really sure on the relevancy of it either. Your CB went in strongly on our CM. It was a bad challenge, and he was lucky to escape injury. If it were our player on yours, you would agree with.

Fan bias was my point, fans see things differently as you say in your last line.

Anyway should do something productive for a while

 

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Cjay said:

Fan bias was my point, fans see things differently as you say in your last line.

Anyway should do something productive for a while

 

Ok.

Still totally irrelevant though.

[Cjay]

6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I totally agree. That's our fault. We shouldn't have done it. I'd be interested to see your reaction if we didn't, and we scored though.

But we did kick it out. It's basic sportsmanship to return the favour.

Not only that but your bloke slowed down, pretended to kick it out and passed it through catching everyone off guard. That's scummy.

Probably be the same as yours now but still would think we were tits for assuming you would put it out.

Agree with the last bit, that was the main issue imo.

[Cjay]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

In the Middle Ages you could punch people and break their legs. Football's gone soft. It should all still be legal

In 2019 you still can apparently, Hourihane did.

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, Cjay said:

Probably be the same as yours now but still would think we were tits for assuming you would put it out.

Agree with the last bit, that was the main issue imo.

I sort of blame our players for kicking it out to begin with, I was angry at it. But once we do it, you really should be doing it too.

Stupid. but right.

[MarkLillis]

There are not many  opposition fans who think highly of Jack.

They almost without exception think that he "dives, goes down easily etc. etc."

As fans and players of the opposition get more and more wound up (like yesterday!) I find myself watching the game and saying to myself " well just stop kicking him then " but of course they cant as they need to stop him playing.

Its catch 22 and I'm glad he is on our side!

[imavillan]

32 minutes ago, Cjay said:

And Bamford was a clearing in the woods for what he did.

And Grealish does deceive refs, and you won't agree because he is your player which is fair enough.

And he is a good player,so is Ronaldo and he is famous for deceiving refs as are many good players.

Players like Grealish are the worst for it, flair players who do get kicked more then most they do have a habit of falling down more then most.

Ronaldo, Neymar, Zaha loads of them.

Doesnt mean they arent talented (Grealish is clearly).

 

Intriguing comments on Jack and flair players....

When a player gets challenged,  its either a foul or it isn't. The severity of the foul/touch on the player does not come into it.

Flair players get kicked more than most usually fall down because, as you have said, they get kicked.

Usually, a player that gets kicked its more often than not a foul.

He's the most fouled player in the league for a reason, he's been fouled the most. Simple as that.

 

Strange, but what i've noticed is the opposing fans that do not like Grealish or think he's a cheat or a diver are the ones who's teams foul him the most.

[Robbie09]

1 hour ago, imavillan said:

Intriguing comments on Jack and flair players....

When a player gets challenged,  its either a foul or it isn't. The severity of the foul/touch on the player does not come into it.

Flair players get kicked more than most usually fall down because, as you have said, they get kicked.

Usually, a player that gets kicked its more often than not a foul.

He's the most fouled player in the league for a reason, he's been fouled the most. Simple as that.

 

Strange, but what i've noticed is the opposing fans that do not like Grealish or think he's a cheat or a diver are the ones who's teams foul him the most.

It's envy - he's far better than any player in their team, best player in the division by a country mile.

[tinker]

Looks like the FA are investigating the fiasco, just waiting for the refs report. I can see Hourihane and Bamford getting 2 match bans 

[Cjay]

2 hours ago, imavillan said:

Intriguing comments on Jack and flair players....

When a player gets challenged,  its either a foul or it isn't. The severity of the foul/touch on the player does not come into it.

Flair players get kicked more than most usually fall down because, as you have said, they get kicked.

Usually, a player that gets kicked its more often than not a foul.

He's the most fouled player in the league for a reason, he's been fouled the most. Simple as that.

 

Strange, but what i've noticed is the opposing fans that do not like Grealish or think he's a cheat or a diver are the ones who's teams foul him the most.

Certain players go down far more easily then most, it is a contact sport after all (just about) and just because a player gets touched it doesnt mean its a foul. 

Partly why i prefer Messi to Ronaldo, absolutely no doubt both of them have been on the receiving end of a lot of rough treatment, yet only one of them has a reputation for being a diver or for being soft or whatever you want to call it. 

On the most fouled bit, i dont see this as a defence, most fouled just means the ref has given the most fouls in Grealish's favour, it doesn't mean that they were all fouls or that he didnt go down easily and con the ref, there are examples from yesterdays game where even Villa fans agree he went down very easily, it wasnt a foul but the ref gave it.

I think it was Dean Ashton or someone like that talking about this sort of thing the other week (not regarding Grealish, think it was a Norwich player) but he pointed out the Norwich player was "clever" he initiated contact by pushing the ball away then when the defender went to put a tackle in the Norwich player basically made sure the defender had to make contact with him then went down, no intention of going for the ball the attacker had just pushed away, he was only interested in initiating or forcing contact in order to win a free kick.  He got the freekick, but as the pundit pointed out if you watch it its cheating, its conning the ref, its not clever its deception but there is contact so it looks like a foul. 

As an aside on the most fouled bit being justification, Messi is second for most dribbles in La Liga which shows he as we know carries the ball often, but he is 13th for Fouled, so does that mean teams in La Liga fear 12 players more then Messi hence why he is less fouled or is he less bothered about winning freekicks and more bothered about scoring goals and creating chances? 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Cjay

[Davkaus]

On 28/04/2019 at 14:49, Spoony said:

Harsh on the linesman that. He probably thought he did see him elbow him in the face, as a lot of us would at full speed.

The lino isn’t the one at fault here. It’s the cheating player, who has tried to con the referees and succeeded.

I've seen a lot of very angry posts about the assistant ref suggesting the red, but I agree with this 100%

Some have said "he didn't clearly see it, he can't give the red", and on the face of it, this seems compelling.

However, can you imagine the absolute fury if one of ours took a punch, or an elbow, or a kick, with a player's body slightly obscuring it, and the ref didn't give it because while he saw the punch/elbow/kick, he didn't 100% see the contact? If there's a swing, and a player hits the deck, you may well need freeze-frames to actually be 100% on the contact.

It was a little naive to let his arm swing like that, but I give 100% of the blame to the player who hit the deck.

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, Cjay said:

In 2019 you still can apparently, Hourihane did.

1. No he didn't

and

2. No you can't.

Congrats on totally missing the point though  

[Cjay]

12 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

1. No he didn't

and

2. No you can't.

Congrats on totally missing the point though  

 He bloody did

And i know what your point was, players are far to protected these days imo.

But at least it keeps there hair in place (i had hair like Jacks years ago).