tonyh29 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 (edited) I don't think he's a racist but Baker is a football man and must have spent enough time around monkey noises at football to know the connotations Edited May 9, 2019 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdabush Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Don't believe he was thinking of the connotations but incredibly thoughtless and don't think the BBC had any choice but to sack him. Funny how many Daily Mail types who constantly witter on about snowflakes are suddenly hugely offended by this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Just now, djdabush said: Don't believe he was thinking of the connotations but incredibly thoughtless and don't think the BBC had any choice but to sack him. Funny how many Daily Mail types who constantly witter on about snowflakes are suddenly hugely offended by this though. Sack person for one misjudged tweet, continue to promote noxious racist individuals daily via their news platforms. Mixed messages from the Beeb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Rodders said: Sack person for one misjudged tweet, continue to promote noxious racist individuals daily via their news platforms. Mixed messages from the Beeb it's kinda strange indeed ..are either of these posts any less / more racist than Bakers ? yet both are still on the BBC at various times 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 9, 2019 Moderator Share Posted May 9, 2019 40 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: Even if he did not intend for it to be racist, which I am sure he didn't...what exactly is the bloody joke? He's a long term comparer of rich posh people and their kids with monkees, in a sort of surreal/satirical way. He's been doing it for ages. He did it again, presumably without thinking that this time, what with the infant being mixed race..."better not go there". As most people agree, very dumb on his part. In this day and age, organisations sack people for embarrassing errors such as this (unless the organisation is a political party, obviously). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post leemond2008 Posted May 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 9, 2019 Had a really good debate about this at work, one lad was saying that he should be arrested for it which I find ridiculous, I'm not even sure he should have lost his job It was a joke, was it in poor taste? yes, should he have known better before posting it on Twitter? yes, should he apologize? yes Does he deserve to lose his job over a joke made in poor taste? no, should he be forever demonized because of it? no One of the lads that was involved in the conversation was almost weeping with faux outrage because of the terrible racist tweet, this was just a few hours after he showed me about 5 racist pictures or memes about the royal baby. Another person involved in the debate said that the police should look into it because it caused offense, then we moved into the whole freedom of speech argument. To be honest it was quite refreshing to have a conversation like that where I work, I did walk out of the office though and think to myself "did I say anything that anyone could have taken offense to, could I get into trouble for anything I said" 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Racist no. Funny nope, Offensive, chimps across Britain will be **** off that they are effectively being called loafers off the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 So if William and Kate come out the hospital with a new baby and someone photoshops it as a monkey, it's ok. But if they do it for same reasons with Harry and Meghan it's racist? Take this to the next degree; effectively, by treating them differently and NOT posting it, you're actually being racist as your changing your actions based on race. So posting it is racist and not posting it is racist!! It's similar to that story about a kid modelling a 'cheeky little monkey' t-shirt for a fashion catalogue. The t-shirt exists and is fine. But a black person isn't allowed to wear it basically. Surely that's racist! I'm really beginning to check out of this world. Naivity is not offensive, stupid questions are not offensive if they come from naivity. How else will people learn? And being truly innocent and not seeing race at all should be applauded to some degree, isn't that what we're all supposed to be aiming for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said: So if William and Kate come out the hospital with a new baby and someone photoshops it as a monkey, it's ok. But if they do it for same reasons with Harry and Meghan it's racist? Take this to the next degree; effectively, by treating them differently and NOT posting it, you're actually being racist as your changing your actions based on race. So posting it is racist and not posting it is racist!! What a load of bollocks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, snowychap said: What a load of bollocks. Thank you for your well thought out response as we debate the intricacies of race, social media and ethics in the modern world... Please note the term next degree as this clearly states the ludicrousy of the situation but also highlights how anything can be construed a certain way if it's over thought. In fact, everything in comment could be seen as offensive if looked at in a certain way. When I see a monkey, I see an animal. When someone else sees a monkey they see it as having racial connotations. So if I use a monkey in any work I do and then someone highlights it COULD be construed as racist, does that make me racist? So not seeing race makes someone racist. But maybe you summed it up better, level headed debate isn't for everyone... Edited May 9, 2019 by jackbauer24 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 21 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said: Thank you for your well thought out response as we debate the intricacies of race, social media and ethics in the modern world... Please note the term next degree as this clearly states the ludicrousy of the situation but also highlights how anything can be construed a certain way if it's over thought. In fact, everything in comment could be seen as offensive if looked at in a certain way. When I see a monkey, I see an animal. When someone else sees a monkey they see it as having racial connotations. So if I use a monkey in any work I do and then someone highlights it COULD be construed as racist, does that make me racist? So not seeing race makes someone racist. But maybe you summed it up better, level headed debate isn't for everyone... Stop monkeying around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 If you are a celebrity of any kind, you have to be so careful with what you tweet nowadays as someone will take offence. Baker, is in no way racist (IMO), but he was guilty of being a little braindead in saying what he did. As someone said earlier, he's a canny bloke so difficult to imagine him falling into this trap. Should he have been dismissed? Absolutely not. Complete OTT response from the BBC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Just now, Xela said: If you are a celebrity of any kind, you have to be so careful with what you tweet nowadays as someone will take offence. Baker, is in no way racist (IMO), but he was guilty of being a little braindead in saying what he did. As someone said earlier, he's a canny bloke so difficult to imagine him falling into this trap. Should he have been dismissed? Absolutely not. Complete OTT response from the BBC. I want to agree, but we can't be judge and jury on who meant offence and who didn't. If we allow the monkey joke from Baker then we'd grudgingly have to accept the same joke from an actual racist like Gerrard Batten. There's just no right answer here, just degrees of wrong answer. It's a clunky bloody system and I just wish he hadn't done it. Perhaps it'll be one of those sackings that sees him back on some BBC show in the Autumn, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted May 9, 2019 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted May 9, 2019 57 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said: So if William and Kate come out the hospital with a new baby and someone photoshops it as a monkey, it's ok. But if they do it for same reasons with Harry and Meghan it's racist? Take this to the next degree; effectively, by treating them differently and NOT posting it, you're actually being racist as your changing your actions based on race. So posting it is racist and not posting it is racist!! **** nonsense. Will and Kate's baby isn't black (or have a mother who has black ancestry) so of course it's not racist if you use it for their baby. What you're saying is basically "it's not racist that I threw that banana at a black footballer because it wouldn't have been racist if I'd thrown it at a white player" 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I want to agree, but we can't be judge and jury on who meant offence and who didn't. If we allow the monkey joke from Baker then we'd grudgingly have to accept the same joke from an actual racist like Gerrard Batten. There's just no right answer here, just degrees of wrong answer. It's a clunky bloody system and I just wish he hadn't done it. Perhaps it'll be one of those sackings that sees him back on some BBC show in the Autumn, I don't think the BBC need much ammunition to get rid of Baker anyway, he's been a thorn in their sides over the years and a very vocal critic. Would have been interesting to see if they had taken the same action if it was one of their star Radio 1 DJ's (don't ask me names - i'm far too old to listen to it now!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: **** nonsense. Will and Kate's baby isn't black (or have a mother who has black ancestry) so of course it's not racist if you use it for their baby. What you're saying is basically "it's not racist that I threw that banana at a black footballer because it wouldn't have been racist if I'd thrown it at a white player" Thanks for giving an example why it's nonsense, and perhaps highlights where what I'm saying is, ironically, being misconstrued! I can't keep pointing out that I clearly stated, the next degree, not what I actually think is the case. What I'm trying to say, perhaps poorly, is that if you over think anything it can be read as being racist or offensive. Hence why the sentence is finished with double exclamation marks to highlight the insanity of it all. Moving to a simpler example; the 'cheeky monkey' t-shirt. Is the t-shirt itself offensive? Is the term offensive? Most people would say no. Is it offensive to bar a child from wearing clothing based on the colour of their skin? Of course. So in this scenario the t-shirt isn't offensive, you should let everyone have access to wearing the same clothing and yet you're in a situation where every outcome is offensive. I just think you HAVE to judge on intent, as hard as that may be. I don't have any strong feelings about Danny Baker one way or the other, I hardly know who he is! But if someone is genuinely blind to race isn't that a good thing? In an ideal world, one we're all aiming for, aren't we supposed to not consider race at all?! It should have no impact on any decisions we make as people are human not a colour. Maybe I'm no idealistic/simplistic! Same with jokes. Every joke, if analysed to the nth degree, is offensive to someone. Is that not why judgements have to be made about intent? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 9, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2019 Just now, jackbauer24 said: Thanks for giving an example why it's nonsense, and perhaps highlights where what I'm saying is, ironically, being misconstrued! I can't keep pointing out that I clearly stated, the next degree, not what I actually think is the case. What I'm trying to say, perhaps poorly, is that if you over think anything it can be read as being racist or offensive. Hence why the sentence is finished with double exclamation marks to highlight the insanity of it all. You don't have to do much thinking to see why insinuating that a child with black ancestry is a monkey is offensive. If you really think that's a stretch then I'm not sure what else to say. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 51 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said: Thank you for your well thought out response as we debate the intricacies of race, social media and ethics in the modern world... It was infinitely more considered than the drivel that you wrote both in the post quoted and the subsequent one (from which the above comes). There really is no point in engaging with such nonsense. It is a misapprehension of mammoth proportions for you to consider that you were in anyway, shape or form actually 'debating the intricacies of race, social media and ethics in the modern world.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatAboutTheFinish Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 If Danny Baker and Roseanne Barr had children.... Too soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 9, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2019 43 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: It's a clunky bloody system and I just wish he hadn't done it. Perhaps it'll be one of those sackings that sees him back on some BBC show in the Autumn, Danny Baker gets sacked by the BBC pretty much annually. Does his penance and comes back. It's been going on for twenty years or more. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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