lapal_fan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Just now, Stevo985 said: The person being black isn't really the point. If he'd done the same to a Lithuanian or Irish or Indian or chinese or whatever, it's still racist. As I said above, going out to kill someone of the same race as a completely unrelated person who has done something terrible is definitely racist. She could have been raped by a white bloke - then how is it racist? It happened to be a black person. Are you seriously saying in a week, or 10 days or whatever it was, he couldn't have found a black guy to cosh up? Come on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: She could have been raped by a white bloke - then how is it racist? If he went out and tried to kill a random white man because the person who raped his friend was white, then that's racist. or it's a racially motivated attack. it would be a weird one given he's white himself, but I'd argue it still qualifies. Swap white with black, indian, chinese, muslim, jewish whatever and it absolutely is. 6 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Are you seriously saying in a week, or 10 days or whatever it was, he couldn't have found a black guy to cosh up? Come on. He easily could have, which is why I've already said I don't even believe his story. Which makes it even weirder. But taking the story at face value, going out to kill an innocent person because they share a race with someone completely unrelated who did something bad is almost the very definition of racist. Edited February 7, 2019 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: If he went out and tried to kill a random white man because the person who raped his friend was white, then that's racist. or it's a racially motivated attack. it would be a weird one given he's white himself, but I'd argue it still qualifies. Swap white with black, indian, chinese, muslim, jewish whatever and it absolutely is. He easily could have, which is why I've already said I don't even believe his story. Which makes it even weirder. But taking the story at face value, going out to kill an innocent person because they share a race with someone completely unrelated who did something bad is almost the very definition of racist. Then I honestly have no idea what being racist is. I thought being a racist would be to target a person of a different ethnicity to yourself, to harm or harass them, for no reason other than you dislike them for being a different ethnicity. I honestly (rightly or wrongly), don't believe this (as you say) weird story is that, I just think it happened to be a black person who raped someone Neeson knew, and he wanted to lash out. That said, I look forward to the inevitable social media carry on topic of "Why are we talking about the racist aspect of the story, when we should be talking about the poor woman who got raped!?". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Could it be as simple as, he was racist (probably through ignorance) but he isn't anymore? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Wainy316 said: Could it be as simple as, he was racist (probably through ignorance) but he isn't anymore? But how do you deem whether you were and are not now? Once the media tarnishes you with that stick you don't recover. For me what hulk hogan said was racist this I don't find it anywhere near as bad. His emotions took over but he did nothing and realised it was wrong. He should be applauded for that not pelted in every direction by a lot of people from the media and these z list nobodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2019 28 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Then I honestly have no idea what being racist is. I thought being a racist would be to target a person of a different ethnicity to yourself, to harm or harass them, for no reason other than you dislike them for being a different ethnicity. I don't think the word "different" necessarily needs to be included. Although obviously it's more or less always the case that it IS a different race to the person's own. Would Liam Neeson have done the same thing if the person was white? Probably not. But if he had then I'd argue that was still racist. it's CERTAINLY racist if he'd done the same thing to someone who was a different race Liam Neeson is claiming that he wanted to murder someone for no other reason than they were the same race as a totally unrelated person who raped his friend. That is racist. it is literally murdering someone because of their race and absolutely no other reason. It would have been a textbook racially motivated murder. He would be murdering somebody purely because they were black. And the person who raped his friend was black. If he'd targeted a chinese person because the person who raped his friend was chinese, it would be just as racist. 33 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: I honestly (rightly or wrongly), don't believe this (as you say) weird story is that, I just think it happened to be a black person who raped someone Neeson knew, and he wanted to lash out. it just happened to be a black person. But if Neeson then murdered a DIFFERENT black person just because he was black, that's racist. Like I said above it is absolutely textbook racism. It's no different to me murdering Mohammed who lives next door just because he's (a totally innocent) muslim after an ISIS terrorist attack. The story doesn't prove Neeson is racist or hates black people. But at face value it does show he was willing to murder someone purely based on their race. That is racism. I'm struggling to see how people are missing that. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, lapal_fan said: Did he really say, upon hearing a close friend was recently raped "WHAT COLOUR?!" maybe, maybe not. If he did, then it's racist In the interview, he is quoted as saying this: Quote “She handled the situation of the rape in the most extraordinary way,” Neeson says. “But my immediate reaction was…” There’s a pause. “I asked, did she know who it was? No. What colour were they? She said it was a black person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, lapal_fan said: Are you seriously saying in a week, or 10 days or whatever it was, he couldn't have found a black guy to cosh up? In the same interview, he presents it not at attacking any random black person, but walking around hoping that a black man would give him a pretext for launching a disproportionate attack and killing him. But the opportunity didn't arise, no-one gave him a pretext. Quote “I went up and down areas with a cosh, hoping I’d be approached by somebody – I’m ashamed to say that – and I did it for maybe a week, hoping some [Neeson gestures air quotes with his fingers] ‘black bastard’ would come out of a pub and have a go at me about something, you know? So that I could,” another pause, “kill him.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Boy's will be boys I guess (that's a joke) No, I hadn't read that - the second part is undoubtedly racist. No doubt that had he attacked a black person, it would have been a racially motivated attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2019 I have this sitcom style scene playing in my head. Liam Neeson going round black neighbourhoods thinking "these black guys will attack me any minute!" Then like barging into black guys, or knocking things out of their hands trying to provoke them, but they all end up being really polite and nice about it. "Sorry about that buddy. My fault entirely. Hope you're ok, have a great day" And Liam Neeson getting more and more angry because black people aren't as aggressive and horrible as he racistly thought they were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) If you remove race from the equation, the idea of killing a random person because a different person committed a crime is obviously absurd and unjust. Adding race back in to the situation, it's clear that race was the motivating factor for him to take the actions he claims he took. Ergo, it was a racially-motivated crime that he was seeking to commit. Whether this matters, decades down the line and with him claiming to feel shame and remorse about his actions, is another question. Edited February 7, 2019 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 How old was Neeson at the time when this incident occurred? 40 years ago right and I don't think he is over 70 so at most he was 30im guessing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: How old was Neeson at the time when this incident occurred? 40 years ago right and I don't think he is over 70 so at most he was 30im guessing? He's 66 I read, so he'd have been 54 t the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: He's 66 I read, so he'd have been 54 t the time. This was twelves years ago? Why did I think it was forty? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatAboutTheFinish Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: This was twelves years ago? Why did I think it was forty? Because it was? He pitches it as nearly 40 years ago, which would make him late 20s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbojangles Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 This is one i am really divided on but ultimately think it has been blown out of proportion Was what he did wrong? Yes. Was what he said wrong? Again yes. Should he now be ostracised 40 years after the (non) event to the extent he is? Definitely not He was younger and very angry as I am sure we all would be. He knows he was wrong, that's it move on. We have all been irrational and done things in rage and thought after the fact, s**t i shouldn't have done that. If something had happened it would have been a racially motivated attack no question, do I think he is racist? Again no Also don't agree he should be commended for speaking about it either, just put it under Friday's fish and chips and move on. There are plenty of other modern day news stories and bigoted/racist opinions that people can get angry about and actually make a difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post choffer Posted February 7, 2019 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 7, 2019 I'm so outraged by what he's done that I'm off out to find an Irishman to beat up. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 hours ago, lapal_fan said: That's selective defensism, don't you think? You can believe he can go after a black bloke, but you don't believe he could go after a Lithuanian? Hmm. Okay right off the bat, as I've stated multiple times in this thread, I don't have anything against the man. I'm not trying to paint him in any particular way, I'm just going by what he's said and the context in which he said it, not because I have a personal vendetta against the man or whatever the hell you're trying to insinuate here. When he was telling the story of him going after a black guy, it was completely unprompted. He could have been lying of course but I could only take his word for it at the time. There was no reason to think he was lying. Whereas when he was talking about Irish/British/Lithuanian it was in response to a pointed question amid a controversy he ignited. There is now the motive of trying to cover his ass to consider, as well as the fact that his answer to the question didn't even line up with his original story. He originally said he was looking for what colour the person was, and yet in his response to the question rattled off a bunch of nationalities instead. How would he even go after a Lithuanian or an Irishman? Ask every white guy he sees where they're from? It sounds like either he's backtracking, or that his concept of race and nationality is still stuck in the 60's, and by British/Irish/Scott he really meant white. Either way, it's not a good look with respect to his views on race. 4 hours ago, lapal_fan said: Essentially we're arguing over "how do you identify someone?", in which case "black bloke" just becomes an adjective, just as much as "Hispanic, tanned skinned, dark haired, ginger, white, Asian" - or whatever that woman could have said to him about the person who raped her.. Yes. And that's racist too??? Like I said earlier in the thread and as @Stevo985 mentioned, it's not the 'black' part specifically that makes him racist. It's the fact that he targeted a specific race in the first place. Hispanic, Asian, Black...it doesn't matter. 4 hours ago, lapal_fan said: Did he really say, upon hearing a close friend was recently raped "WHAT COLOUR?!" maybe, maybe not. If he did, then it's racist - he's admitted it - he's a **** idiot, it's sullied his reputation and he has to live with it. Everyone else is immaterial. Well he said he did, which by your logic you have to take at his word or else it's 'selected defensism', whatever that means. Whether or not he asked "WHAT COLOUR" is not the point. He went out to kill somebody of a particular race. That's **** racist...it's the literal definition of it. An innocent man could have lost his life because he happened to belong to the same race as a rapist. There's not even an ounce of ambiguity there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Okay right off the bat, as I've stated multiple times in this thread, I don't have anything against the man. I'm not trying to paint him in any particular way, I'm just going by what he's said and the context in which he said it, not because I have a personal vendetta against the man or whatever the hell you're trying to insinuate here. When he was telling the story of him going after a black guy, it was completely unprompted. He could have been lying of course but I could only take his word for it at the time. There was no reason to think he was lying. Whereas when he was talking about Irish/British/Lithuanian it was in response to a pointed question amid a controversy he ignited. There is now the motive of trying to cover his ass to consider, as well as the fact that his answer to the question didn't even line up with his original story. He originally said he was looking for what colour the person was, and yet in his response to the question rattled off a bunch of nationalities instead. How would he even go after a Lithuanian or an Irishman? Ask every white guy he sees where they're from? It sounds like either he's backtracking, or that his concept of race and nationality is still stuck in the 60's, and by British/Irish/Scott he really meant white. Either way, it's not a good look with respect to his views on race. Yes. And that's racist too??? Like I said earlier in the thread and as @Stevo985 mentioned, it's not the 'black' part specifically that makes him racist. It's the fact that he targeted a specific race in the first place. Hispanic, Asian, Black...it doesn't matter. Well he said he did, which by your logic you have to take at his word or else it's 'selected defensism', whatever that means. Whether or not he asked "WHAT COLOUR" is not the point. He went out to kill somebody of a particular race. That's **** racist...it's the literal definition of it. An innocent man could have lost his life because he happened to belong to the same race as a rapist. There's not even an ounce of ambiguity there. Already been over it, but thanks. 3 hours ago, lapal_fan said: Boy's will be boys I guess (that's a joke) No, I hadn't read that - the second part is undoubtedly racist. No doubt that had he attacked a black person, it would have been a racially motivated attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 wonder whoever at Gucci thought this was a good idea? They've already apologized apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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