ChrisVillan Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Anyone know if the Championship kneeling is still for BLM specifically? The Premier League watered down the message precisely in order to uncouple the supposedly controversial aspects of the body (as opposed to the movement) from the purpose of the knee. Is it even related to BLM anymore? Not that football fans booing it have a nuanced view on it all. They're just racists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, ChrisVillan said: Anyone know if the Championship kneeling is still for BLM specifically? The Premier League watered down the message precisely in order to uncouple the supposedly controversial aspects of the body (as opposed to the movement) from the purpose of the knee. Is it even related to BLM anymore? Not that football fans booing it have a nuanced view on it all. They're just racists. some of the Championship clubs rejected it before, I know QPR were not keen on it and stoppped it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Just now, Zatman said: some of the Championship clubs rejected it before, I know QPR were not keen on it and stoppped it Yep. Les Ferdinand spoke very well about why they were doing that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 8 hours ago, The_Steve said: The FA was wrong to water down their message about Black Lives Matter and to replace it with the 'no room for racism'. There was real symbolic power by replacing names on shirts, and even, racists still put out their 'White Lives Matter' crap - which is a racist political statement in that context. The FA needs to address racism across all levels of the game. Calling for tolerance isn't enough, the FA should be very clear that players should feel protected and safe to make these statements. Crowds should be told to be respectful. Again, it's not perfect. Capitulating on this debate will only encourage more racist fans to do the same. I kind of think the opposite, the Black Lives Matter name itself is clumsy and hijackable by racists with the White/All Lives Matter bollocks whereas the No Room For Racism and Kick It Out campaigns were harder to do that with. Racists can't spin those into More Room For Racism or Keep It In. Either way it needs more than slogans to eliminate racism, symbols like taking the knee only have limited impact, it gets to the point where it becomes a bit half-arsed and it just fizzles out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted December 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 7, 2020 8 hours ago, pacbuddies said: Well done Millwall fans. BLM is an ararchist political movement intent on erasing our history and destroying the fabric of our democratic society. This reads like parody. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 7, 2020 On 06/12/2020 at 00:20, Zhan_Zhuang said: Re: 'taking the knee'.... Yes a great sentiment and cause but it is starting to become a bit tiresome I guess for some. It is unfortunate but people will revolt to it eventually, it's just the the way it is. That's the problem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Got to be honest....if I was taking a knee I'd be thinking about George Floyd obviously. And Damiola Taylor as was 20th anniversary of his murder the other week. And Stephen Lawrence. Anthony Walker aswell given there was a TV adaptation of his life a few months back. All senseless murders in last 30 years and you'd hope that's not the path for next 30 years but I fear it will be. I don't think of the organistation just the sentiment. It's like on 11th November pausing for two minutes (and in normal times at the match a week before) and just thinking about those who gave their lives back then for a relatively more peacful way of living now rather than all the reasons as to why those wars happened. Shocked at the booing. Spurs giving it a round of applause last night was lovely to hear. They can relate a little more given large majority of their fanbase is Jewish. I would like to think when the time comes VP would at least just let the players get on it with, we're talking barely 5 seconds aswell. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) Just to add aswell I don't agree with statues just being hauled down into the Avon without some proper debate first in the cities as to legacy and what it represents. And then it gets taken down carefully. Still wouldn't make me want to boo taking the knee. I can disagree with one aspect without denouncing or booing the whole movement and I think that's important thing the Millwall fans have decided (probably deliberately) to miss. Obvious expection if that Thatcher statue goes up in Grantham though! Edited December 7, 2020 by VillaChris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Millwall are not doing it for the QPR game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 People have spoken, they are done with it. The sentiment was lost...it is they way it is... Things change and adapt, it is the Way (Tao). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: People have spoken, they are done with it. The sentiment was lost...it is they way it is... Things change and adapt, it is the Way (Tao). 'People' here seems to have quite a narrow definition, meaning 'some Millwall and Colchester fans, but not really fans at any other club' (at least at this stage). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 We'll see how it transpires at other clubs. To clarify, I meant the people at Millwall have spoken (obviously). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted December 8, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Seat68 said: Millwall are not doing it for the QPR game. but funnily enough, QPR who have previously stopped doing it, are doing it again for the millwall game as a show of solidarity 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, tomav84 said: but funnily enough, QPR who have previously stopped doing it, are doing it again for the millwall game as a show of solidarity I think this is a reasonable stance to take. QPR have explained their reasons for not continuing to do it but having seen the reaction of Millwall fans to the taking of the knee at the weekend I can see why the players would feel that they should show that the booing hasn't won. QPR will go back to not doing it in future games for the reasons that they have stated previously. This is a one off show which I feel is the correct reaction to events at Millwall a few days ago. As an aside, I think its clear that your club has issues when the majority of people in attendance are booing this gesture despite Millwall releasing a club statement beforehand to the effect that it is being done as a message against racism and discrimination rather than for any political purpose. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 No idea of the answer, but is it any surprise to anyone that the BLM message isn't getting through to football fans? There's proven correlation between lower IQ's and homophobia/racism. It gets to the point that if you say X, Mr Dumbass over there will just return the status quo back, because self-awareness, questioning your own belief system and wanting to make small changes to your own life is something people of low intelligence can't do. It's like asking a goldfish to drive a car. Really, the only chance we have of "ending" racism is taking kids away from their parents and throwing them together and deleting previous knowledge/history/opinions. Education can only benefit those who want to be educated and to people with low intelligence, it's too difficult. On the points made a few pages ago about 5% of black managers, it might be interesting to know that since 2002, the number of black players doubled in the Premier League. In Euro 96, only Sol Campbell and Paul Ince were black in the squad - both of whom have had a managerial career (so to speak). Now the players who were playing in 2002/3 are retiring, we'll naturally see more black managers, but there's always a lag time of around 10-20 years between playing/retiring/gaining qualifications. Wouldn't surprise me to see Rio and other highly influential players becoming managers in the next few years. From following people like Ashley Cole and Gabby on social media, they're both going through their badges, so I don't doubt we'll naturally see more black managers/coaches/scouts through all levels of the game. I thought Darren Moore did a good job at Baggies and obviously you've got Chris Houghton who I wouldn't mind at Villa should Smith fall to pieces. Dwight Yorke is an anomaly with his views on "I should get a top job", there's only potentially 20 and 25% of those aren't in trouble of losing their jobs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 11 hours ago, VillaChris said: Just to add aswell I don't agree with statues just being hauled down into the Avon without some proper debate first in the cities as to legacy and what it represents. Incredibly off-topic, but the issue with what happened in Bristol, was that all of this conversation and debate took place but it was all veto'd by Conservative council members. They even objected to keeping the statue up, with a plaque (written by a local school also named after Colston) stating the context of what Colston was involved in. It's no surprise it went down considering all democratic means were exhausted with no effect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 What if 2 teams run out onto the pitch and kneel down,but what if one of those players is a racist.Is he going to be the only one standing ? I dont think so. Which defeats the whole purpose of the kneeling bit as a minority of players will be forced to kneel when they dont support BLM at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: Incredibly off-topic, but the issue with what happened in Bristol, was that all of this conversation and debate took place but it was all veto'd by Conservative council members. They even objected to keeping the statue up, with a plaque (written by a local school also named after Colston) stating the context of what Colston was involved in. It's no surprise it went down considering all democratic means were exhausted with no effect. Ah right didn't know that. Would sitll have prefered it to have been taken down carefully rather than just rolling into the harbour even if that gave off more of a powerful image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted December 8, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 8, 2020 2 hours ago, PussEKatt said: What if 2 teams run out onto the pitch and kneel down,but what if one of those players is a racist.Is he going to be the only one standing ? I dont think so. Which defeats the whole purpose of the kneeling bit as a minority of players will be forced to kneel when they dont support BLM at all. i think if a player felt strongly enough about it then he would refuse to take the knee. james mclean faced considerable backlash for refusing to wear the poppy, but he stuck to his guns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 5 hours ago, tomav84 said: i think if a player felt strongly enough about it then he would refuse to take the knee. james mclean faced considerable backlash for refusing to wear the poppy, but he stuck to his guns. Racists are typically cowardly and unprincipled and are scared of being called out. The ones that aren't are extremely dangerous, mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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