Vive_La_Villa Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 12 hours ago, Keyblade said: Racists are typically cowardly and unprincipled and are scared of being called out. The ones that aren't are extremely dangerous, mind. I’d say the first lot are just as dangerous if not more so. At least with the second lot what you see is what you get. You know they are racist. The first lot make conscious decisions in their life based on someone’s race but with a smile on their face so it means you’re non the wiser. I think there’s also a third group. They are not racist but also keep quiet as scared their opinion or view could be deemed racist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I’d say the first lot are just as dangerous if not more so. At least with the second lot what you see is what you get. You know they are racist. The first lot make conscious decisions in their life based on someone’s race but with a smile on their face so it means you’re non the wiser. I think there’s also a third group. They are not racist but also keep quiet as scared their opinion or view could be deemed racist. I'd agree with this - especially dangerous when they get into positions of power, because that's how the systemic stuff begins. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted December 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) Seen some comments on Twitter by fans and elsewhere online and I just wish some would stop taking the easy route and calling other supporters racist because they have some concerns with taking the knee. It’s not that simple, it’s a complex issue and needs to be debated openly so everyone is brought along. There is obviously sections of fans in some clubs who think taking the knee is contrived in some way as to the links to BLM. The PL and other leagues have been trying to distance themselves from BLM, but I don’t think they have communicated it clearly enough to football supporters. Yes BLM had adopted this, but it the NFL player Kaepernick I believe who first copied Martin Luther King in 2016 by taking the knee. Yes there are racists out there, there always will be and unfortunately some support football clubs. But in a time when we support the players for taking a stand and the clubs and the leagues supporting this, can we not marginalise other fans for what may not be racism but valid concerns that should be listened to and debated openly. Edited December 9, 2020 by QldVilla 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 6 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I’d say the first lot are just as dangerous if not more so. At least with the second lot what you see is what you get. You know they are racist. The first lot make conscious decisions in their life based on someone’s race but with a smile on their face so it means you’re non the wiser. I think there’s also a third group. They are not racist but also keep quiet as scared their opinion or view could be deemed racist. and theres the group that are hypocrites, that stand up against racism to keep or promote their jobs but privately they couldn't care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 4 hours ago, QldVilla said: Seen some comments on Twitter by fans and elsewhere online and I just wish some would stop taking the easy route and calling other supporters racist because they have some concerns with taking the knee. It’s not that simple, it’s a complex issue and needs to be debated openly so everyone is brought along. There is obviously sections of fans in some clubs who think taking the knee is contrived in some way as to the links to BLM. The PL and other leagues have been trying to distance themselves from BLM, but I don’t think they have communicated it clearly enough to football supporters. Yes BLM had adopted this, but it the NFL player Kaepernick I believe who first copied Martin Luther King in 2016 by taking the knee. Yes there are racists out there, there always will be and unfortunately some support football clubs. But in a time when we support the players for taking a stand and the clubs and the leagues supporting this, can we not marginalise other fans for what may not be racism but valid concerns that should be listened to and debated openly. I kind of take this point but would add that Millwall released a club statement from the players themselves to tell their fans exactly why they were taking the knee. Included in the statement is the following: “We wish to make clear that taking the knee, for us, is in no way representative of any agreement with political messaging or ideology. It is purely about tackling discrimination, as has been the case throughout." That seems like a pretty clear statement distancing the taking of the knee from the BLM movement to me and anybody booing it needs to take a long hard look at themselves. As mentioned by a previous poster I'm pretty shocked that Millwall have given in to those booing by stopping the gesture themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, PaulC said: and theres the group that are hypocrites, that stand up against racism to keep or promote their jobs but privately they couldn't care less. To be honest, I'd take that at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 John Barnes having an interesting time on twitter for not agreeing with the general consensus about if the 4th official was racist or not in the PSG - FC Erdogan game last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 He wasn't even asked. He blurted it out to the ref. "Yellow card for this black guy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted December 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2020 4 hours ago, tom_avfc said: I kind of take this point but would add that Millwall released a club statement from the players themselves to tell their fans exactly why they were taking the knee. Included in the statement is the following: “We wish to make clear that taking the knee, for us, is in no way representative of any agreement with political messaging or ideology. It is purely about tackling discrimination, as has been the case throughout." That seems like a pretty clear statement distancing the taking of the knee from the BLM movement to me and anybody booing it needs to take a long hard look at themselves. As mentioned by a previous poster I'm pretty shocked that Millwall have given in to those booing by stopping the gesture themselves. We live in a time where groups like BLM target organisations through emails etc saying if you don’t do this or other your racist. The CEO’s and other rather than standing on principle cave into these organisations very easily so they don’t get targeted. I’m not saying that the PL or other leagues have done this, but besides saying otherwise, this taking the knee has come about because of what has occurred in America and the BLM protests. So I can understand where supporters can feel it may be contrived no matter what clubs or the leagues say otherwise when there’s been a recent history of organisations caving to the wishes of minority groups. Football has always had its anti racism campaign going back to the 90’s and some fans would be saying football has led on this issues and doesn’t need to be lectured too. As I said it’s a complex issue, so rather than judging other fans, let’s listen to what they have to say, rather than trying to label and ostricise them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 John Barnes is, in modern parlance, "tweeting though it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Fighting racism is political. You can't run away from politics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 Cambridge fans have now joined the hall of shame for booing players taking the knee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Tbh I'm glad we're not allowed fans in at the moment based on some of the throbbers on the Villa Facebook groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 On 11/12/2020 at 19:24, villalad21 said: It's a difficult situation, because you could argue that players would have to take the knee forever. After all, is there a good time to end this? Not taking the knee is not a sign of racism. Taking the knee is not a sign of virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted December 16, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 16, 2020 24 minutes ago, Mic09 said: It's a difficult situation, because you could argue that players would have to take the knee forever. After all, is there a good time to end this? Not taking the knee is not a sign of racism. Taking the knee is not a sign of virtue. At some point a player will twig a hamstring and it will stop overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 At a structural level. This is quite a stat and demonstrates how English football remains an old boys club for many 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 6 hours ago, The_Steve said: At a structural level. This is quite a stat and demonstrates how English football remains an old boys club for many Not even just from a purely racial standpoint, but really for any manager working their way up I imagine that's a frustrating stat to look at. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 West Brom had to put out a statement due to the racial abuse of Romaine Sawyers by his own fans. Same thing happened to our Axel after United lost to Sheffield United. We've had problems with racism too but I can't remember us racially abusing one of our own after a loss. We just give them old fashioned abuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: West Brom had to put out a statement due to the racial abuse of Romaine Sawyers by his own fans. Same thing happened to our Axel after United lost to Sheffield United. We've had problems with racism too but I can't remember us racially abusing one of our own after a loss. We just give them old fashioned abuse We dont really know what was said to El Ghazi in them messages. West Brom attitude shocks me as they were one of the first clubs as well to embrace black players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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