DCJonah Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said: Well if you ignore the results and performances since that short spell then no it wasn't the exception. But if you come back to the real world then it seems it was the exception and quite frankly if Smith is so rocked by 1 key player getting injured then that isn't a good defence either because through a season you're going to get injuries and if this is how Smith reacts to 1 injury then that is a Huge concern. From the team that beat boro and smashed them, only 4 of them appeared against stoke. Its not just one player. There have been changes to the team and that takes time and will clearly have an effect. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam3773 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Bruce came in when we were 19th, had an alright start, a terrible run of 9 games without a win, ended the season in 13th with the most expensive squad in the league. Got a summer, bought in some of his go to OAPs and got us to 4th. Smith came in when we were 15th, had an alright start, going through a terrible run of 1 win in 10 games, with probably end the season around 13th with second oldest squad in the league. He'll get a summer, bring in some of his go to young, hungry players and get us to......? I love a comparison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Sam3773 said: Bruce came in when we were 19th, had an alright start, a terrible run of 9 games without a win, ended the season in 13th with the most expensive squad in the league. Got a summer, bought in some of his go to OAPs and got us to 4th. Smith came in when we were 15th, had an alright start, going through a terrible run of 1 win in 10 games, with probably end the season around 13th with second oldest squad in the league. He'll get a summer, bring in some of his go to young, hungry players and get us to......? His level, mid table. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 25, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 minute ago, jim said: His level, mid table. Dunga on the other hand... 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam3773 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, jim said: His level, mid table. Brentford's level* We'll see. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, jim said: His level, mid table. Surely you must have some room in your thinking to accept that Brentford have a lower ceiling than Villa. If he's incapable of finishing higher at new clubs who have higher ceilings than his old clubs with lower ceilings, why weren't Brentford consistently finishing midtable in League 1 like Walsall? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, praisedmambo said: Surely you must have some room in your thinking to accept that Brentford have a lower ceiling than Villa. If he's incapable of finishing higher at new clubs who have higher ceilings than his old clubs with lower ceilings, why weren't Brentford consistently finishing midtable in League 1 like Walsall? Because Brentford is a very different set up to Walsall, he was a small cog in a very large coaching team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, romavillan said: Dunga on the other hand... Sky’s the limit where that man is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, jim said: Because Brentford is a very different set up to Walsall, he was a small cog in a very large coaching team. You kind of ignored what I was saying though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 51 minutes ago, romavillan said: Dunga on the other hand... So take your arm out of that cows ass then man ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, jim said: Because Brentford is a very different set up to Walsall, he was a small cog in a very large coaching team. No doubt DS benefited from a very good setup at Brentford, and people tend to overstate the impact of individual managers and coaches on football clubs. But calling him a "small cog" is ridiculous. He picks the team! Also, it's DS's willingness to operate within this kind of structure that made him attractive to Villa. We don't want a manic egotist who demands full control, and then leaves a mess behind when they resign, or keeps attacking the board in the press. Remember how many expensive flops MON left to rot on the bench? Managers who have full control and no job security can't be trusted to sign and develop players for the long-term - it's too tempting to sign an expensive 30-year-old who'll give you a couple of good seasons before retiring, or to gamble on an injury-prone player because your job's on the line. But on a matchday, there's no real difference between a head coach and an old-school manager. We can't just put all of Brentford's results down to Anybody-But-Smith. It seems pretty obvious to me that if DS can get regular mid-table finishes with a small club like Brentford, then he can probably get somewhere near the top of the Championship with Villa. We have more money, more fans, etc. Even with FFP, loss of parachute payments, etc. etc. we're still in much better financial shape than most teams at this level. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: I think he's doing a great job. Let him get on with it and he'll prove to be a good manager for us. He is doing as great as trumps making the states 'great' again. Doing a poor job thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Smith isn't immune from all criticism. He's made some mistakes during his time here (Tactics, subs, team choices, etc.) and it's alright for everyone to question his decisions, but to say the man is out of his depth and can't cut it here, it's WAAAAAAY to early to say that, IMO. I honestly think that our results will improve near the end of this season, as more players come back into the fold from injury/suspension. Just getting Jack, Chester, McGinn, and Axel back into the fold will improve things dramatically. This summer is going to be the real test, though. I can't remember the last time I've looked forward to a summer Transfer Window like this one, before. So many first team players are out of contract with just as many going into their final year. We can easily see a 10-15 new players arriving this summer, including loans. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, briny_ear said: Just to avoid any misunderstanding, my remark was about the poor expression in a reported quote by Thomas Elphick, who was boron and raised in my current home town of Brighton. He’s not a foreign language speaker and he I assume he chose to make this comment to the press, so should take responsibility for its intelligibility. He has done quite a lot of talking to the press since he returned so maybe needs to up his media game. Quite. It just read as a 'looking for any possible stick to beat him with (and thereby his current boss)' kind of post. There's enough sniping from both trenches on here already. Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I'm neither pro-Bruce or anti-Bruce. I'm all for giving a journo stick for mangling grammar and language. It's their job not to. Writing fluently and intelligibly ought to be the basic tools of their trade. (Unless you subscribe to the view that a journalist is someone studying for years in order to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff - and then submits the chaff to the editor for the next edition? Yes, I know - redtops...) But verbal communication often doesn't work like that - you speak, you hesitate, you backtrack a bit in order to get your message across. You might even mangle your tenses mid-sentence, insert some hold-on-a-second-while-I-collect-my-thoughts-sound like 'umm' or an 'errr' midways, lose track of your train of thought and restart mid-sentence: "What I mean to say is.." and so forth. You don't read from a pre-written script, like a politician making a speech. The listener will piece it together and grasp what you're trying to say. Too many people will look stupid in print if what they are saying is transcribed word-by-word. IMO, that's on the journalist. (And for what it's worth, I don't think many professional sportsmen in any sport contacts the media on their own volition. They are either approached by the media, or asked by their manager/club to do so. Some take to it like a duck to water. Some don't. How they perform on the field is what really matters, unless they bring the club in disrepute in other ways.) Edited February 25, 2019 by TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 13 hours ago, Stevo985 said: It is slightly amusing that a lot of the same people who slaughtered anyone making "excuses" for Bruce in his first season seem to be using the same "excuses" for Smith this time around. Was this slaughtering you're referring to taking place this time 2017? If not, it's not comparable. The 'excuses' made for Bruce, 2 years and 4 transfer windows (ie: at the start of this season which I assume you're referring to) into his tenure aren't the same as the ones being made for Smith, 3 months and 1 Jan window into his. If you're talking about this time 2 years ago, then that's insane. I don't remember there being much OTT criticism at that time but I was personally of the opinion that he needed a full season, even though he did splash the cash in January. There are still differences between the 2 tenures such as the rebuild job not being as big in 2017 but overall it's too early to call time on any manager just a few months into their reign imo, unless they're literally losing like every game. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, KMitch said: Smith isn't immune from all criticism. He's made some mistakes during his time here (Tactics, subs, team choices, etc.) and it's alright for everyone to question his decisions, but to say the man is out of his depth and can't cut it here, it's WAAAAAAY to early to say that, IMO. I honestly think that our results will improve near the end of this season, as more players come back into the fold from injury/suspension. Just getting Jack, Chester, McGinn, and Axel back into the fold will improve things dramatically. This summer is going to be the real test, though. I can't remember the last time I've looked forward to a summer Transfer Window like this one, before. So many first team players are out of contract with just as many going into their final year. We can easily see a 10-15 new players arriving this summer, including loans. What would it improve though? We've now naff all left to play for this season so it changes nothing except getting a few good results on the board by May to make it look like Smith knows what he is doing. I still doubt he is the man to carry out the rebuuld correctly nor the man to take us forward, IMO. I have been watching football all my life and follow Villa even more intensely and I have seen enough from Smith already to have come to this swift conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 hours ago, jim said: His level, mid table. Mauricio Pochettino highest league finish before taking over at Spurs was 8th. Jurgen Klopp was 11th before taking over at Dortmund not comparing Smith to them but if these top managers cant take similar sized clubs higher then why should Smith be judged on managing Brentford or Walsall who are not big budget teams 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, Zatman said: Mauricio Pochettino highest league finish before taking over at Spurs was 8th. Jurgen Klopp was 11th before taking over at Dortmund not comparing Smith to them but if these top managers cant take similar sized clubs higher then why should Smith be judged on managing Brentford or Walsall who are not big budget teams Those finishes were in the top divisions of their respective leagues. Klopp actually won promotion to the Bundesliga with little Mainz. Smith has a mid thirties win percentage with clubs in the 3rd and second tier of English football. Hardly inspires confidence that he is going to be a success here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 23 minutes ago, jim said: Those finishes were in the top divisions of their respective leagues. Klopp actually won promotion to the Bundesliga with little Mainz. Smith has a mid thirties win percentage with clubs in the 3rd and second tier of English football. Hardly inspires confidence that he is going to be a success here. The 11th place finish with a smaller team in the same league is actually directly comparable to Smith's situation. Let the man actually get on with his job before you decide where he'll finish. "He'll finish midtable because that's where he did with other teams under completely different circumstances" is just weak. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Would we be higher, lower or the same if we’d have kept Bruce? I think we’d be (slightly) higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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