Dean Smith

[Rolta]

27 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

It's incredible. You try and strike debate or dare even say one word wrong about Smith and you just get ousted.

The thread has became insane with a percentage of posters displaying tunnel vision.

Did you not on the other page suggest that our progress was all down to the owners? That came across as incredibly 'tunnel visioned'. I'm interested in a nuanced debate, but I'm not sure that's what I keep reading.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Rolta

[osmark86]

3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I think had the first part of the season happened now and this end part of the season at the beginning i think i would have felt differently.

I just think smiths given me major concerns that he is incapable of consistently getting results with grealish. As much as i like grealish this is a team game. I want to see the manager showing performances (in some not all)

We have been poor on sp many games now. Poor at set pieces, poor passing poor in final third. Just seems we have stepped back to pre covid again but with a more organised defence

that's fair enough. I look at the season as a whole and don't really care for the order of things how they have played out, but I totally get your position.

I also agree that we have a lot to work on towards become a consistently good team. I just think we have to be patient and I think that given time DS has enough in him to get us there.

[Demitri_C]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I absolutely love how desperate you are to want to criticise it. It's so funny. 

And your laughing at those who say you cant criticise smith without being jumped on.  Responses like this is why.

Ive posted my reasons in depth so it isnt to "criticise to be desperate"

I can turn around to you and say your desperate to defend smith. Smith could steal your car and you would defend him. You would probably say "well dean needed the car to go doing his groceries so thats fine"

[AvfcRigo82]

2 minutes ago, osmark86 said:

I don't think so. You might get arguments flung your way from a different perspective but that's just as ok imo.

I agree, which is totally fine.

It's just a band of the same posters that consistently refuse to allow any debate it seems.

The post by @TRO was a good one imo.

[AvfcRigo82]

4 minutes ago, Rolta said:

Did you not on the other page suggest that our progress was all down to the owners? That came across as incredibly 'tunnel visioned'.

Did you not see my response to that said post? It's a page or two back.  

[Demitri_C]

4 minutes ago, osmark86 said:

that's fair enough. I look at the season as a whole and don't really care for the order of things how they have played out, but I totally get your position.

I also agree that we have a lot to work on towards become a consistently good team. I just think we have to be patient and I think that given time DS has enough in him to get us there.

See i have no issue with this kind of post a well written argument that although we dont agree you can see the points we making.

Im not calling for smith to go but i have reservations to where he can take us.

[DCJonah]

12 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Great comeback

 

Doing far better than we did in our first season. Facts.

Then we will use the "oh but we had no squad excuse to protect smith there"

Leeds had absolutely zero pl experience when they came up. Bamford i think being only person i might be mistaken

What are you on about? 

You said Leeds have a squad that makes them consistent. They lost 6-1 earlier in the season, they've had ups and downs just like us and are 1 pt ahead of us having played a game more. If they're consistent then how are we not?

[DCJonah]

10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

And your laughing at those who say you cant criticise smith without being jumped on.  Responses like this is why.

Ive posted my reasons in depth so it isnt to "criticise to be desperate"

I can turn around to you and say your desperate to defend smith. Smith could steal your car and you would defend him. You would probably say "well dean needed the car to go doing his groceries so thats fine"

All you do is complain. Every match thread you complain about the team selection and pretty much every match thread when we go behind you talk about how his job is on the line. You said against West brom, that if we'd lost he should be sacked. 

You then come and pretend that you've got quite a balanced view. It's hilarious. 

I'll absolutely defend the man when he's doing such a good job for the team I support..

[Zatman]

28 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Leeds united

2 points ahead of us. Great consistency

Edited April 27, 2021 by Zatman

[Zatman]

21 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Great comeback

 

Doing far better than we did in our first season. Facts.

Then we will use the "oh but we had no squad excuse to protect smith there"

Leeds had absolutely zero pl experience when they came up. Bamford i think being only person i might be mistaken

They have a German international, 2 Spanish internationals signed in the summer. 

We signed a Zimbabwe international and a Egyptian international and England 3rd choice goalkeeper 

[Mjvilla]

I wanted to do a little comparison on us and Leeds because Leeds seem to be bought up all the time.

When we came up, our squad was:

Nyland, Kalinic, Steer, Elmo, Taylor, Mcginn, Hourihane, Grealish, Lansbury, Davis, Kodjia. 

Leeds was:

Casilla, ayling, Cooper, alioski, Dallas, Berardi, struijk, Davis, Phillips, klich, poveda, Shackleton, Hernandez, forshaw, Roberts, bamford.

I think we can all agree that there is literally no comparison there. I may have missed one or two players from both sides so please feel free. 

It doesn't matter how much we spent (146m according to transfermarkt including January) there was an incredible amount of work to do. We spent nearly 40m (Mings, hause and el ghazi) and had still gone backwards on the previous year. And our squad was still a fair chunk weaker than that of Leeds. 

Put on top of that we lost over £30m worth of these players and the spine of our team for half a season due to injury then it's pretty incredible we even stayed up. 

Leeds spent 96m according to transfermarkt. Not much less than us with a hell of a lot less work to do. 

Now, look at our squad then and which players are still here or will still be here after this season. 3 of them, probably. Grealish, Mcginn, Davis.

I'd imagine Leeds will keep the majority Of those players and add 2/3/4 more. That's how a normal squad should work. That's how nearly every other squad in the premier league works.

We go into this summer with both back up full backs out of contract, a number of weak areas because the players we bought on the cheap to help us stay up aren't good enough for the top half which is what we are aiming for. (Engels, hause, trez, el ghazi). A then record signing striker which has just spent 15 months out injured and we have no idea if he is good enough, if he's going to be good enough for the top half. 

There's lots of work to do again this summer. How much we have spent is just a ridiculous comparison to other teams. When you figure in the level of incompetence we have faced for the last 10 years. The level of short-term thinking, the lack of plan, the lack of progress. 

We now have all this, a future that looks as bright now as it has for 10 years. Genuine youth potential. A good coaching staff, fantastic owners. Do we have inconsistency within this squad which, in my opinion, explains our season amongst other factors? Yes, we absolutely do. 

When I factor in all of this, is why I'm pretty defensive of Dean. And untill I see no progress, I will remain staunch in my defence of him. 

 

 

[bannedfromHandV]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

We cannot line up the same way again without Grealish in the team, we cannot compensate for him so we must change shape with Davis and Watkins on the pitch from the start, we instantly looked better against both Fulham and WBA so please for the love of McGrath, please try something different from the start against Everton, don’t wait til we’re losing in the 80th minute!

[Zatman]

On 10/10/2018 at 23:00, Demitri_C said:

Welcome Dean, an exciting appointment!

 

On 10/10/2018 at 23:04, Demitri_C said:

**** hell!!!! Buzzing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1st posts in the thread . So what has Smith done in 2 and a half years to bring on such a change of opinion. 

Was it the record winning streak? Maybe promotion? Or keeping us up and bringing us to a cup final or was not having us in a relegation battle for the 1st time since 2010 that turned it negatively

[tomav84]

2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

We cannot line up the same way again without Grealish in the team, we cannot compensate for him so we must change shape with Davis and Watkins on the pitch from the start, we instantly looked better against both Fulham and WBA so please for the love of McGrath, please try something different from the start against Everton, don’t wait til we’re losing in the 80th minute!

100%

after the sheff utd and newcastle games a change had to be made.

[Indigo]

Why are Leeds being used as some kind of barometer anyway? Their season is a bit of an anomaly for a promoted side in their first after promotion, it's something they deserve credit for rather than using it as some kind of stick to beat Smith with. Compare it to a lot of other teams who come up and their second season is back in the Championship. Even then as much as Leeds have done well it's not as though they've been consistent, in fact being in this little mid-table mini-league with Arsenal and ourselves demonstrates that they've quite literally been the dictionary definition of inconsistent. 

This isn't to say there aren't criticisms of Smith to be had so don't think I'm denying your very right to form an independent opinion or anything lads, but it is indicative of a trend that confuses me which is despite being in an awful patch of form that quite naturally has valid critiques that come with it...this thread descends into reaches of comparisons to Leeds and taking quotes he's previously said out of context to act like he doesn't care about winning nor losing. Just find it odd.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Indigo

[Zatman]

Just now, Indigo said:

Why are Leeds being used as some kind of barometer anyway? Their season is a bit of an anomaly for a promoted side in their first after promotion, it's something they deserve credit for rather than using it as some kind of stick to beat Smith with. Compare it to a lot of other teams who come up and their second season is back in the Championship. Even then as much as Leeds have done well it's not as though they've been consistent, in fact being in this little mid-table mini-league with Arsenal and ourselves demonstrates that they've quite literally been the dictionary definition of inconsistent. 

This isn't to say there aren't criticisms of Smith to be had so don't think I'm denying your very right to form an independent opinion or anything lads, but it is indicative of a trend that confuses me which is despite being in an awful patch of form that quite naturally has valid critiques that come with it...this thread descends into reaches of comparisons to Leeds and taking quotes he's previously said out of context to act like he doesn't care about winning nor losing. Just find it odd.

Some people on here are Leeds obsessed and our season is being judged against them as they think we are rivals

Leeds are this season Sheffield United in terms of overachievement and a stick to beat our manager with

[fightoffyour]

4 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Reads like if we'd beaten Sheffield utd and Burnley and baggies but then lost both games to arsenal, Liverpool, Leicester etc everything would be alright in the world 

We are a typical inconsistent mid table team with weird results 

If we'd achieved some sort of balance this year - beaten the teams we "should" be beating, lost to the teams that we "should" be losing to and done it in a fashion where we won a game every 3 weeks rather than winning them all at the start and we had the exact same points in the exact same position as we are right now then no one would care and would call it a good season 

Exactly. To get to where we want to be we're going to have to be beating sides like Liverpool and Leicester from time to time. I'm rather encouraged to get the sort of results we've produced this season to build the confidence that we can beat such teams which we haven't done for a long time, and in some cases certainly never in that fashion (the 7-2 of course).

Beating the likes of Burnley, West Brom, and West Ham next season when we've inexplicably lost or drawn after trashing them on the pitch (and on xG) this season should be the easy part in theory. That's just what being a consistently good team means. If we can do that whilst still getting results against the likes of Arsenal then we'll be where West Ham are now.

It's been a great season nonetheless, especially considering Jack has been out for so long and the player who should be our next most important has been useless during the same period.

[avfc1982am]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

But there has been no consistency without jack. Thats the issue.

 

I disagree....we've been consistently poor.

[DCJonah]

15 minutes ago, Zatman said:

 

1st posts in the thread . So what has Smith done in 2 and a half years to bring on such a change of opinion. 

Was it the record winning streak? Maybe promotion? Or keeping us up and bringing us to a cup final or was not having us in a relegation battle for the 1st time since 2010 that turned it negatively

The jury's still out. Hahaha

I don't even think I was that excited when we he joined. Part of me wanted Henry.

[sparrow1988]

36 minutes ago, Zatman said:

They have a German international, 2 Spanish internationals signed in the summer. 

We signed a Zimbabwe international and a Egyptian international and England 3rd choice goalkeeper 

Don't forget the Tanzanian international.