Dean Smith

[MrSmirch]

I think @DCJonah is the most vehement defendant of Smith not because he is the most pro of his brand of football but because he is one of the most anti of the previous regimes.
 

Does he want this exact same stuff for the rest of time? No!

Is he happy with every performance? No!

Can what we've seen improve with new players? Definitely.

[Demitri_C]

12 hours ago, Zatman said:

You still havent answered my response from a few pages back. Why has your opinion changed to so much anger from the 1st page on this thread

Maybe look at your posts on page 1 when we were bottom half of the Championship and Smith took over

What was your expectation of Villa in April 2021 back then? 

 

Are you going to be talking about things from over 2 years ago.? Things change in time. There are various posts from all of us that posted something 2 and half years ago.

I have answered this question before when asked but i didnt expect smith to take us up when we were midtable.  I have never said smith didnt do a great job getting us up the way he did.

However last season we were going down. If the lockdown never happened i am 99% certain we would have gone down lost players like grealish konsa etc. God knows if we would bounce back. After seeing how shit we havs been without grealish i dont think he would have. 

Its all good saying oh he got us up and kept us up.bit the recent form is relegation form. We wont go down this year, but if we perform like this at the start of next year we will be in  a relegation fight. There is no question.

Its worrying sign for me if grealiah gets injured early in the season i have massive reservations in smith being able to keep us up if the season is fresh withiut jack.

If im wrong show we the results and points tally smith has without jack?

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Are you going to be talking about things from over 2 years ago.? Things change in time. There are various posts from all of us that posted something 2 and half years ago.

I have answered this question before when asked but i didnt expect smith to take us up when we were midtable.  I have never said smith didnt do a great job getting us up the way he did.

However last season we were going down. If the lockdown never happened i am 99% certain we would have gone down lost players like grealish konsa etc. God knows if we would bounce back. After seeing how shit we havs been without grealish i dont think he would have. 

Its all good saying oh he got us up and kept us up.bit the recent form is relegation form. We wont go down this year, but if we perform like this at the start of next year we will be in  a relegation fight. There is no question.

Its worrying sign for me if grealiah gets injured early in the season i have massive reservations in smith being able to keep us up if the season is fresh withiut jack.

If im wrong show we the results and points tally smith has without jack?

But we didn't. Konza has signed a new long term deal. Getting us up and keeping us up could well see Jack Grealish spend the rest of his career here.

And this is why your criticism is unreasonable and you have an agenda.

You've actually ignored what happened and are criticising him based on your doomsday hypothetical situation that didn't happen. This is similar to the posts i belive you used to make in the conspiracy theory thread. Facts don't seem to matter. 

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

But we didn't. Konza has signed a new long term deal. Getting us up and keeping us up could well see Jack Grealish spend the rest of his career here.

And this is why your criticism is unreasonable and you have an agenda.

You've actually ignored what happened and are criticising him based on your doomsday hypothetical situation that didn't happen. This is similar to the posts i belive you used to make in the conspiracy theory thread. Facts don't seem to matter. 

You said and i quote 'reasonable criticism doesnt get picked on' yet then say i have an agenda because you dont agree with my opinion. Its laughable really DC. 

I have no issue with your disagreeing with my opinion. But its these silly agenda comments you throw in.

You would stick with smith if he relegated us and didnt bring us up where most of us would want him out. Smith can do no wrong in your eyes.

Erm no i havent you actually dont read what i write. I have highlighted my concerns why i have them in great detail without jack. The recent points return proves that. That is not opinion that is fact.

[DCJonah]

11 hours ago, MrSmirch said:

I think @DCJonah is the most vehement defendant of Smith not because he is the most pro of his brand of football but because he is one of the most anti of the previous regimes.
 

Does he want this exact same stuff for the rest of time? No!

Is he happy with every performance? No!

Can what we've seen improve with new players? Definitely.

I think there's a few reasons I feel quite defensive towards the manager. 

First, I think what he's done at the club so far will have the kind of long term impact no other manager since I've been really supporting villa has had. Now a big part of that is because Dean is the only manager who worked in the championship, but I don't think that should be ignored. Wherever this club goes, with or without Dean, he built the base for it. 

We don't go up first time, then this club looks very different. 

Jack Grealish may spend the rest of his career here. That doesn't happen if we aren't promoted first time and stay up first time. That's huge for me. 

And since MON, we've had absolutely nothing to get behind really. Houllier's year was hardly inspiring. Mcleish knocked us down further and Paul Lambert made me hate football. Sherwood gave me hope just because it was a change, but him, Garde and Black is the lowest point I've seen us. 

RDM went quickly and by the end of Bruce's 2nd season, I'd accepted the awful football because we had the chance to go up. But ultimately he failed and left us in a hell of a mess 

So yeah, the first manager in a decade who is really moving the club forward. An owner and manager combination that I can get behind, you bet your life I'm going to grasp that fully. 

It sucks when it's no fun following your team. When there's little to really rally behind. We've got so much now. And without Dean, it doesn't happen. 

[DCJonah]

10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

You said and i quote 'reasonable criticism doesnt get picked on' yet then say i have an agenda because you dont agree with my opinion. Its laughable really DC. 

I have no issue with your disagreeing with my opinion. But its these silly agenda comments you throw in.

You would stick with smith if he relegated us and didnt bring us up where most of us would want him out. Smith can do no wrong in your eyes.

Erm no i havent you actually dont read what i write. I have highlighted my concerns why i have them in great detail without jack. The recent points return proves that. That is not opinion that is fact.

You've literally just posted that he would have taken us down and not got us back up. 

You've just based your criticism of not only changing the past but then predicting a negative future.

None of that happened. We stayed up. We've not been close to relegation this season. 

Please don't place your negative scenarios on me. I've never said Smith can do no wrong. But unlike you, I'll actually wait for it to go wrong before I criticise or want him removed 

[Demitri_C]

25 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You've literally just posted that he would have taken us down and not got us back up. 

You've just based your criticism of not only changing the past but then predicting a negative future.

None of that happened. We stayed up. We've not been close to relegation this season. 

Please don't place your negative scenarios on me. I've never said Smith can do no wrong. But unlike you, I'll actually wait for it to go wrong before I criticise or want him removed 

Its called an opinion DC its not a crime. My opinion ia based on smiths performance as manager withoutt grealish was is woeful.

'Predicting a negative future' based on smiths performance without grealish. Those are the facts look at smiths record without jack.

Ha you say smith can do no wrong but when anyone dares to criticise smith you try to shams them or say they have a agenda for daring to critise smith.

Well if you havent noticed its been going wrong for the last 10 gamss but you continue to bury your head in the sand thinking everything is good. It isnt. Improvement is needed or we will fighting a relegation battle again.

But i guess you will make more excuses its not on smith. The players not good enough, he didnt sign these players lange did, or how about blaming the villa park pitch? Smith is not above criticism accept that. 

 

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

Its called an opinion DC its not a crime. My opinion ia based on smiths performance as manager withoutt grealish was is woeful.

'Predicting a negative future' based on smiths performance without grealish. Those are the facts look at smiths record without jack.

Ha you say smith can do no wrong but when anyone dares to criticise smith you try to shams them or say they have a agenda for daring to critise smith.

Well if you havent noticed its been going wrong for the last 10 gamss but you continue to bury your head in the sand thinking everything is good. It isnt. Improvement is needed or we will fighting a relegation battle again.

But i guess you will make more excuses its not on smith. The players not good enough, he didnt sign these players lange did, or how about blaming the villa park pitch? Smith is not above criticism accept that. 

 

OK. It's just an endless cycle and I'm equally to blame, so let's end it here. 

 

 

[Demitri_C]

39 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

 And without Dean, it doesn't happen. 

Now who is throwing future scenerios around? I bet Southampton fans were saying the same after they sacked adkins and replaced him with poch. 

Thats a myth you dont know that for certain just  like i dont if a replacement would do any better.

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

OK. It's just an endless cycle and I'm equally to blame, so let's end it here. 

 

 

I would agree we are getting no where. Lets agree to disagree. No hard feelings on my part

[DCJonah]

9 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I would agree we are getting no where. Lets agree to disagree. No hard feelings on my part

Same here. Its arguing about football, I don't take anything personal. 

[osmark86]

12 hours ago, MrSmirch said:

I think @DCJonah is the most vehement defendant of Smith not because he is the most pro of his brand of football but because he is one of the most anti of the previous regimes.
 

Does he want this exact same stuff for the rest of time? No!

Is he happy with every performance? No!

Can what we've seen improve with new players? Definitely.

Honestly just think he despises arrogance, irrationality and generally overblown pessimism.

[AvfcRigo82]

I was amazed to see this topic went 12 hours without a post!

[Demitri_C]

31 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Same here. Its arguing about football, I don't take anything personal. 

Glad to hear me neither

[gaffer85]

52 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Its called an opinion DC its not a crime. My opinion ia based on smiths performance as manager withoutt grealish was is woeful.

'Predicting a negative future' based on smiths performance without grealish. Those are the facts look at smiths record without jack.

Ha you say smith can do no wrong but when anyone dares to criticise smith you try to shams them or say they have a agenda for daring to critise smith.

Well if you havent noticed its been going wrong for the last 10 gamss but you continue to bury your head in the sand thinking everything is good. It isnt. Improvement is needed or we will fighting a relegation battle again.

But i guess you will make more excuses its not on smith. The players not good enough, he didnt sign these players lange did, or how about blaming the villa park pitch? Smith is not above criticism accept that. 

 

An opinion is based on fact what you have is a theory but a theory may never come true

I could theorize that we will win the league next year from our first half to the season and it has the same validity of your theory that were shit from the second half of the season

An opinion is based on facts

There is a difference

[Mjvilla]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Now who is throwing future scenerios around? I bet Southampton fans were saying the same after they sacked adkins and replaced him with poch. 

Thats a myth you dont know that for certain just  like i dont if a replacement would do any better.

For me, this is a very key point. And one, for now, to stick with our trusted hand in Smith. 

After so many years of mismanagement, we really need to stabilise in the mid table growing to top half/top 6 area. We know Smith has progressed us, and he's got us into midtable. We know he can do that. 

Can he take us further? Could someone else do it better than him? We don't know, but the grass is most certainly not always greener. 

We need stability, to build the project, to grow on and off the pitch. We are doing that. In all areas. 

If we get to the point, where it clear that Dean can't take us further, then questions will be asked. But, he's a manager that has taken us further year upon year, he's proven us all wrong a number of times. 

Replacing him now could potentially be great, but it could also undo the last 2 years of hard work on and off the pitch. This is a long term project, were only just beginning our journey.

[TRO]

On 26/04/2021 at 20:11, DCJonah said:

It's not really a case of defending it. You've picked a few poor results. On the flipside you can point to a few brilliant results, but of course you wouldn't do that. 

As so many keep trying to explain, it's what midtable teams tend to do. Great results, poor results and then pretty standard what you'd expect results. 

I agree with that. and its right to pin point, just picking on poor games and not the good ones....inconsistency is what midtable teams do....but bad runs that are over long periods, is not a good sign, either.

I predicted 12th this season so, where we end up could be close, to my call......but here is my concern.

Since 1 Jan and up to Jacks absence we was arguably getting midtable results  8 games, won 3, lost 4,  drawn 1.....since jacks absence its 10 games, won 2, drawn 3, Lost 5

Thats 5 wins in 18 games.....That is the concern some of us have.....so which is the true Villa 2020 form or 2021 form?

I accept all teams have bad runs, when you are midtable, but this drop in form has been with us, around half a season.

I repeat, if we finsh 12th or there abouts, what is there to worry about?.....but our form after 18 games, raises questions IMO.

I am not suggesting or alluding to Dean going....I am simply saying, we have issues of importance to fix.

I could simply bury my head and say so what, we are safe.....but I am a person who see's rain clouds gathering in the distance, and expects rain......If it then shines, all the better.

I simply remind myself of our motto " Prepared".

I hope he pulls us round, I really do.

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

On 26/04/2021 at 20:21, Mark Albrighton said:

 

****ing big nutshell.

Coconut

[TRO]

On 26/04/2021 at 21:40, MrBlack said:

Agree with all you say, guess its just about how much leeway we're willing to give the boss, and appreciate that is a very personal and subjective view point. 

I just think in the scheme of managers we've rattled through in recent history, none have come close to showing the promise Dean has. Yes, he has had a distinctly better hand than some of them, but it certainly wasn't when he took over. For this reason, I'm all for stability for absolutely as long as possible, and while progress is wholistically being demonstrated, it's a gamble we don't need to take.

I will be bitterly disappointed, if he is made to go, which I don't think he will.

But I do expect a behind the scenes, open debate from all concerned in to how to improve the consistency of the team.

Personally, I don't see a clamour for players like Matteus Periera, to do this, (albeit I expect to be in the minority on here,) despite his eye catching moments in a game.

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

On 27/04/2021 at 09:37, osmark86 said:

I don't think so. You might get arguments flung your way from a different perspective but that's just as ok imo.

I have seen, for example, @TRO put forth a couple of really good arguments against DS that I agree with to a certain extent for one. I don't think all pro-DS people are blind to our problems. Just more accepting of them and optimistic about our future with DS at the helm. I believe it boils down to the amount of slack/faith you're willing to put in him as our head coach. I for one have a lot of faith in him still.

Thanks.

I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.....Dean has some undoubted redeeming features.....and a really likable fella....The villa fan is an optional extra, for me.

But we are in a slump and that is the centre of the debate.....If we was talking during the first 10 games, we would be waxing lyrical about all his redeeming features of management...but we are not.

We are all discerning Villa Fans, we should be able to debate, what we think is wrong with us, without defaulting to the manager being replaced.

He is paid to manage and that means good times and bad times.

Edited April 28, 2021 by TRO