villalad21 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Second goal is just a simple cross. First goal is a corner. This is basics. If you have to score 2 every game just to draw you're always gonna struggle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Just now, mykeyb said: 6 attempts on target. Why do some people assume that posters pointing out issues they see in a game as us wanting Dean out. Do you think when Dean get the team in next he won't be poi ting out issues with tonight's game? Where have I said that? I imagine he'll point out to Cash that he was tucked in too narrow on that break, and he'll be disappointed Mings or Konsa didn't win the header. He'll also be disappointed our blockers for the first got in each others way giving Ogbona a free run at the ball, as he acknowledged in the post-match. I don't think he's going to have many more specific criticisms unless its to tell Trez to finish better or Watkins to take better penalties? We were much the better side and had 2(3) CLEAR cut chances. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the "6 attempts on target", we battered them and even the West Ham fans think they were lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 30, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Indigo said: I didn't say you did. What I said is that your idea of regression is myopic if you think that this - your arbitrary point from where it can and can't be ascertained - is it, but by all means crack on thinking pointing that out is daft. By your logic you're being daft because we in fact progessed in the latter 44 minutes of the second half from our performance in the first minute. Or better yet our defensive performance was actually better here than it was vs Brighton, in which case surely that's progress if I draw the imaginary line from there. In the grand scheme of things we've absolutely improved and that's what can't be disputed with the current evidence we have. You draw as many imaginary lines as you want. I'm not repeating myself any more. Its not remotely myopic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 22 minutes ago, villalad21 said: If we want to keep Grealish, mid table just won't cut it. I’m not sure what else you were expecting from this season apart from mid table. I would guess that Grealish would think mid table after barely surviving last season was a great achievement. Do you seriously think we would be top 6 or top 8, you are looking at about 60 points for that and would be 7+ wins more a season than we had. Now we improved the team but not that much. You think of the top teams...Liverpool, Man City and United, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester.....it’s a gigantic jump to get up there, they have far more quality than us and much bigger squads at the moment. I think Jack has signed for 5 years knowing it’ll take more than one close season to get in the players we need to mount a serious top half the table challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Just now, TrentVilla said: You draw as many imaginary lines as you want. I'm not repeating myself any more. Its not remotely myopic. It's so myopic that it's remote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, mykeyb said: Just for clarity what exactly have I deemed acceptable? Well the chances we've had tonight don't seem to be enough in your book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Hand picked games? They are with the exception of Arsenal our recent games. I'm done. Yes, exactly. Pick one game that was longer ago over a more recent one to try and prove your point. Hand picking. And given that was your response, I can only assume that you may agree maybe things aren't as bad as you might have initially thought? Personally, I think we're generally better defensively now than we were at the start of the season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, nick76 said: I’m not sure what else you were expecting from this season apart from mid table. I would guess that Grealish would think mid table after barely surviving last season was a great achievement. Do you seriously think we would be top 6 or top 8, you are looking at about 60 points for that and would be 7+ wins more a season than we had. Now we improved the team but not that much. You think of the top teams...Liverpool, Man City and United, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester.....it’s a gigantic jump to get up there, they have far more quality than us and much bigger squads at the moment. I think Jack has signed for 5 years knowing it’ll take more than one close season to get in the players we need to mount a serious top half the table challenge. Yes I think these players are very capable finishing in the top 10. At the very least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, penguin said: Where have I said that? I imagine he'll point out to Cash that he was tucked in too narrow on that break, and he'll be disappointed Mings or Konsa didn't win the header. He'll also be disappointed our blockers for the first got in each others way giving Ogbona a free run at the ball, as he acknowledged in the post-match. I don't think he's going to have many more specific criticisms unless its to tell Trez to finish better or Watkins to take better penalties? We were much the better side and had 2(3) CLEAR cut chances. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the "6 attempts on target", we battered them and even the West Ham fans think they were lucky. Possession we bossed yes, 6 attempts on target isn't a battering really. I don't think we are creating enough quality chances considering we did dictate the game for most of the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Once again, you've agreed with the point I made that the way we are currently playing has regressed from earlier in the season. You seem to be labouring under the opinion I don't think we've improved from last season, a point I've addressed several times. I've not said ups and downs aren't part of the journey, I'm just saying in my opinion in recent games we've dipped. You seem to agree so I'm not quite sure what you are taking issue with. You didn't really just say that though. In response to me saying we've made progress you said you didn't see it and you're seeing regression. You then kept saying that we can't look at last season. If you'd simply said our defence has looked worse in recent weeks then yep, 100% agree. I still see plenty of progress from last season and from the start of this. Our attacking play in the last few games has been better than sheff u or Fulham earlier on in the year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Well the chances we've had tonight don't seem to be enough in your book. 6 chances on target with one goal in a game we lost and controlled the game..........you are happy with those stats so no point in further discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 30, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, bobzy said: Yes, exactly. Pick one game that was longer ago over a more recent one to try and prove your point. Hand picking. And given that was your response, I can only assume that you may agree maybe things aren't as bad as you might have initially thought? Personally, I think we're generally better defensively now than we were at the start of the season. That's not hand picking ffs its out last 5 games. We were defensively good in that game so how about I say in the last 5 games we've been poor defensively in 4 or them, how about that? Given we've conceeded 11 goals in those games I'd say that's fair. Would you? I don't agree that we are better currently defensively than we were at the start of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Losing and banging on about your expected goals is like failing to pull on a night out, and talking about your expected BJ rate while you toss yourself off. So . . . pretty much exactly what you'd expect from a group of blokes who comment on football forums at 11 PM on a Monday night, then 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Just now, mykeyb said: Possession we bossed yes, 6 attempts on target isn't a battering really. I don't think we are creating enough quality chances considering we did dictate the game for most of the second half. You're getting stuck on shots on target too much (even so, it was 6 attempts on target plus hitting the bar from a penalty). I mean, Konsa's turn and hit was more a decent effort than a real chance, but it was a shot on target. However, Watkins stabbing the ball just past Fabianski's post was a real chance but not a shot on target. Apparently, xG was 0.4 for West Ham and 2.4 for us. We did more than enough to win that game but, of course, we lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Just now, TrentVilla said: That's not hand picking ffs its out last 5 games. We were defensively good in that game so how about I say in the last 5 games we've been poor defensively in 4 or them, how about that? Given we've conceeded 11 goals in those games I'd say that's fair. Would you? I don't agree that we are better currently defensively than we were at the start of the season. OK, fair. If you think we were bad defensively tonight then I don't really know what to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Sheffield United must have slyly switched places with us if it's true that we've regressed from last season. Thanks Chris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, mykeyb said: Possession we bossed yes, 6 attempts on target isn't a battering really. I don't think we are creating enough quality chances considering we did dictate the game for most of the second half. Why are shots on target the best way to determine chances created. We’ve missed the target with a penalty today. Last week Trezeguet put an open goal wide. Are we just ignoring chances where we miss the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 35 minutes ago, Zatman said: we destroyed Arsenal at the Emirates a few weeks back They were poor, an still are. But it was a deserved win, an we played well admitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Think what pisses me off so much is that Martinez has had barely anything to do in these games. We're not even conceding that many chances, we're just conceding literally every time we do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 30, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: You didn't really just say that though. In response to me saying we've made progress you said you didn't see it and you're seeing regression. You then kept saying that we can't look at last season. If you'd simply said our defence has looked worse in recent weeks then yep, 100% agree. I still see plenty of progress from last season and from the start of this. Our attacking play in the last few games has been better than sheff u or Fulham earlier on in the year. I did and I've clarified it several times. I really didn't think it was necessary to clarify that I wasn't talking about last season to this, it should be self evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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