Dean Smith

[PaulC]

The result may just give us a kick up the backside they need. Southampton are another bogey side for us we need to be right at it against them. 2 defeats in a row we don not want. 

[nick76]

12 hours ago, paul514 said:

Nakamba, Conor and Traore for McGinn Barclay and Trez

Nah, Conor would’ve been bypassed in this game.  

You could argue the players on the pitch were anyway but this wasn’t a Conor game at all.  

Nakamba, yeah maybe.  

Not sure about Traore in this either, not sure he’s a roll your sleeves up type of person.

Im not a fan of Davis but maybe throw him on for Trez and get some things to stick upfront for Watkins or Grealish to feed off.  Nakamba for Barclay.  
 

Maybe even Elmo or Engels on for McGinn, got to a back three to stop those wings being so exposed and Cash being doubled up on when we’re defending. Midfield weren’t helping Cash so a right sided centre back could and then on the counter Cash would have more freedom going forward.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

To be honest it's one game and the start we've had is better than I expected. So I don't think one result justifies laying into the manager too much. However, I would like to make a few points.

 

A lot of people on here made a similar sort of remark about Bielsa that Gabby did during the week, that he was a myth and overrated. But what Bielsa has done with Leeds is nothing short of extraordinary. I've always rated him as a manager and can see why Leeds are so excited to have him there, he's simply a better manager than Smith. Last night when they had a guy on a yellow he made a change after just 20 minutes. You would never see Smith do that. Leeds go into every game, regardless of the team, looking to dominate and more often than not they do. Bielsa has made average Championship players like Ayling, Dallas, Bamford, Harrison and Shackleton look the part in the greatest league in the world. Everyone said last season that Dean didn't have the players, that we basically had a Championship team, well that Leeds team last night (other than maybe Koch) looked every bit the Championship team but certainly didn't play like it. 

 

I just feel tactically Dean needs to improve. His only tweak to the system seems to be to bring on Traore for Trezeguet and it was obvious we needed fresh legs last night and he once again made one sub. Last night's performance was really poor, there's no getting away from that. We were dominated at home against a side that has just come up from the Championship. Southampton at home will be another game like last night, they're greater than the sum of their parts, they'll press us high up the pitch, and if we play anything like we did last night we'll lose. 

 

It's just one game and I'm not getting carried away, but we need a response now. We could quite feasibly lose the next 2 games and we have to make sure that doesn't happen or this season could quickly become a struggle. 

They don't rely on Individuals as much as us, so they are difficult to stop....their ethos is Homologous, much like the three musketeers " all for one and one for all"

We are still WiP and the progress is sprinkled with stardust....but I think we have pragmatic lessons to learn. I witnessed a team of ours in the past Built by Ron Saunders, where workrate was the Mantra and everything we did was central to that....We had great individual talent like Little and Shaw with serial goal scorers like Gray and Withe....We beat the best team in Europe for the greatest prize.....That is the platform that work rate and high intensity brings to you, we never matched that last night, probably unable to, something to work on. Biesla is a fine,fine manager, but lets not kid ourselves its pioneering stuff.....Ron did something similar with us.

Biesla is not a myth far from it, but he has great Nous for identifying key elements of a game....He is also astute at recruiting the right players to fit his philosophy.....our bloke is still learning.

Ps Their Goal keeper what a buy also, 20 year old for 5 mill.......wow

Edited October 24, 2020 by TRO

[Rightdm00]

2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Love Smith, but should have changed it last night at half time. We were being thoroughly outplayed. 

I felt the game was pretty even at the end of the half. The first 15 belonged to Leeds but we were pretty even for the last 30. This was a game where Leeds took their chances and we didn't. 

We had an xG of 1.5 and got nothing. Feels like yesterday was our luck evening up a bit after we got a couple lucky ones versus Liverpool. 

[Rightdm00]

1 hour ago, GENTLEMAN said:

No way. Maybe the events subsequent to their goal are clouding your judgement. Up until then it was reasonably even, although warning signs were there. Cannot blame Smith for having faith in the players that had just won 4 on the bounce to impose our game on them. We panicked after going a goal down, they grew in confidence. Smith seen this and commented so in post match. I’m sure he’ll address it. 
 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

First time we had played from behind all season and it showed.  Our press which is only halfway decent on a good night absolutely fell apart at 1-0. Pretty much every aspect of our game got worst. 

It's moment like these that I remember we don't have a single field player older than 27. We got mentally disjointed and no one on the pitch was able to snap the team out of the mental haze it had entered.

Live and learn, we didn't play that bad, but you can't quit like that just because you concede one goal. Smith will need to get right on addressing that. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Rightdm00
One = on

[sidcow]

4 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Dont care what anyone says biesla is a bloody brilliant coach

Myth............... apparently. 

[Dave-R]

I do believe if we had the team play to the standards we did prior to the Leeds game we would of won the game had everything fell into place right. I'm annoyed, I'm heart broken that it was Leeds who yet again messed up a bloody run for us. I must admit the Villa team who went out there and loved playing against the pool just didnt look like the same set of lads, they looked miles away from where there heads were actually at.

I think it was one of those crazy games where our players hearts dropped because everything was happening right for Leeds and everything wasnt hitting home for us.

How many misses, great shot blocking, decisions or even ball off the line just didnt go our way, when that starts happening, the football gods say it's your turn for an ass whooping.

I absolutely hate how the media is saying we got hammered, I dont think it's as easy to say as that considering all that was going wrong for us on our side. If you had of counted all our chances,the score could of been very much different and in our favour. Up until that first goal and I still do not understand why we had four or so players just standing there, the playing field was on our side after the first ten minutes, that first goal just killed us and it shouldnt of done. Its games like that which our lads should be think hold on were better than this, we shouldnt drop our heads we should be the difference and it's why we are 2and in league.

Smith should of matched Leeds formation, he really did put us on fire by not either adding more up front for us (which could of made Leeds drop more players back) or drop more players back and let Leeds kill themselves to help ( protect our LB+RB ) because they were outnumbered most of the game 2 to 1. Tactically Smith is still learning but Leeds should not of been afforded that much respect and we should of adapted but it was like Smith had no answer for Bielsa which I'm still struggling to come to terms with now.

Bamford goals, two were easily sorted and why on earth did we have on multiple occasions, players who just felt the need to stand there as if they were the new comers to the league.

This is now going to be a very annoying season watching everyone have difficulty dealing with Leeds because there fitness seems on an upper level to everyone else. Why cant we seem to get on a fitness level like that, shouldnt we be aiming for a crazy fitness level to the one we played against last night. I think it's the way Leeds were set up as well, throw more petrol at the fire and watch the fire roar, Leeds threw tons more bodys at attack and the defence couldnt cope and eventually gave out.

I've been saying for a while that our defenders have to get to the balls before opposition crosses them, we can not keep letting opponents just dish crosses along our lines, it is asking for trouble. We invite trouble by not dealing with it quickly and efficiently, letting shot fly at us or crosses come over our defence to the other flank in my opinion is the wrong way in which to defend. We was also back to our defence seeing more of the ball again all because our midfield was none effective or existent pretty much.

Theres alot to work on, you can see that, leeds made our lads look like they were being taught how to play football. I'll give credit where it's due Leeds pulled one on us a d some was our fault some wasnt our fault but we did ourselves no favours by standing there at times like statues being observers of the ball.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, HKP90 said:

We did. We got beat by Stoke’s reserves.

Seriously, though, this is a recruitment issue. I think we all thought during the window that we needed a few extra bods in. For whatever reason that didn’t happen.

Now I’m not going to be overly critical, because I’m pretty certain even as a layman that player procurement is not easy. At all. But it’s certainly something that needs to be addressed in the medium term.

Look, the objective for this year had to have been to get a first team that will comfortably survive the drop. That would be progress. Assuming that is what we now have, the next step is to ensure our stay in the nosebleeds by developing a solid squad. That either comes through recruitment, or more organically through development of youth. Thanks to FFP, though, neither is likely over the short term. 
 

We’ve made a great start, but we’re still at the moment an (at best) competitive mid-table side. That is a huge achievement after last year, and hopefully we’ll continue to make solid steady progress.

I dislike Leeds and Bamford as much as the next man, but in the long run that result is meaningless. 
 

UTV!

I agree with all that....but that last line is imo paramount in telling us where we have to improve. the result might be meaningless, but the play was very interesting and something to learn from.

That game last night should be a central feature on what we do for the future, if we are a progressive club and I believe we are.

If that game is meaningless, it means we haven't learn't.....and I think it was a golden wake up call, to one element we have to do moving forward.

[paul514]

59 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Nah, Conor would’ve been bypassed in this game.  

You could argue the players on the pitch were anyway but this wasn’t a Conor game at all.  

Nakamba, yeah maybe.  

Not sure about Traore in this either, not sure he’s a roll your sleeves up type of person.

Im not a fan of Davis but maybe throw him on for Trez and get some things to stick upfront for Watkins or Grealish to feed off.  Nakamba for Barclay.  
 

Maybe even Elmo or Engels on for McGinn, got to a back three to stop those wings being so exposed and Cash being doubled up on when we’re defending. Midfield weren’t helping Cash so a right sided centre back could and then on the counter Cash would have more freedom going forward.

You know it didn’t even occur to me to put an extra defender on, if it was before it went to two yes I could take off Barclay for Engels and stick him in the middle of the centre backs. Traore on for Trez and see what happens to John and Doug after that

[TRO]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Nah, Conor would’ve been bypassed in this game.  

You could argue the players on the pitch were anyway but this wasn’t a Conor game at all.  

Nakamba, yeah maybe.  

Not sure about Traore in this either, not sure he’s a roll your sleeves up type of person.

Im not a fan of Davis but maybe throw him on for Trez and get some things to stick upfront for Watkins or Grealish to feed off.  Nakamba for Barclay.  
 

Maybe even Elmo or Engels on for McGinn, got to a back three to stop those wings being so exposed and Cash being doubled up on when we’re defending. Midfield weren’t helping Cash so a right sided centre back could and then on the counter Cash would have more freedom going forward.

There are some players who are great when you are winning, but go missing when you are struggling.

I would have been tempted to bring on Davis as a target and Elmo to help cash or cross the ball.

I still think we need some players in the squad who can rat or help out when we are struggling to get the ball.

[villalad21]

16 minutes ago, TRO said:

There are some players who are great when you are winning, but go missing when you are struggling.

I would have been tempted to bring on Davis as a target and Elmo to help cash or cross the ball.

I still think we need some players in the squad who can rat or help out when we are struggling to get the ball.

You say that but if Bielsa had to work with Conor it would not surprise me one bit if he managed to get him running like a mad dog for 90 minutes like the rest of his players.

He is making very average players looking like top quality Premier League players.

We said last season that we didn't get results because of a lack of quality.

Leeds are certainly lack in quality but are getting results. This is down to top quality coaching, 100 %

Edited October 24, 2020 by villalad21

[TRO]

26 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

I do believe if we had the team play to the standards we did prior to the Leeds game we would of won the game had everything fell into place right. I'm annoyed, I'm heart broken that it was Leeds who yet again messed up a bloody run for us. I must admit the Villa team who went out there and loved playing against the pool just didnt look like the same set of lads, they looked miles away from where there heads were actually at.

I think it was one of those crazy games where our players hearts dropped because everything was happening right for Leeds and everything wasnt hitting home for us.

How many misses, great shot blocking, decisions or even ball off the line just didnt go our way, when that starts happening, the football gods say it's your turn for an ass whooping.

I absolutely hate how the media is saying we got hammered, I dont think it's as easy to say as that considering all that was going wrong for us on our side. If you had of counted all our chances,the score could of been very much different and in our favour. Up until that first goal and I still do not understand why we had four or so players just standing there, the playing field was on our side after the first ten minutes, that first goal just killed us and it shouldnt of done. Its games like that which our lads should be think hold on were better than this, we shouldnt drop our heads we should be the difference and it's why we are 2and in league.

Smith should of matched Leeds formation, he really did put us on fire by not either adding more up front for us (which could of made Leeds drop more players back) or drop more players back and let Leeds kill themselves to help ( protect our LB+RB ) because they were outnumbered most of the game 2 to 1. Tactically Smith is still learning but Leeds should not of been afforded that much respect and we should of adapted but it was like Smith had no answer for Bielsa which I'm still struggling to come to terms with now.

Bamford goals, two were easily sorted and why on earth did we have on multiple occasions, players who just felt the need to stand there as if they were the new comers to the league.

This is now going to be a very annoying season watching everyone have difficulty dealing with Leeds because there fitness seems on an upper level to everyone else. Why cant we seem to get on a fitness level like that, shouldnt we be aiming for a crazy fitness level to the one we played against last night. I think it's the way Leeds were set up as well, throw more petrol at the fire and watch the fire roar, Leeds threw tons more bodys at attack and the defence couldnt cope and eventually gave out.

I've been saying for a while that our defenders have to get to the balls before opposition crosses them, we can not keep letting opponents just dish crosses along our lines, it is asking for trouble. We invite trouble by not dealing with it quickly and efficiently, letting shot fly at us or crosses come over our defence to the other flank in my opinion is the wrong way in which to defend. We was also back to our defence seeing more of the ball again all because our midfield was none effective or existent pretty much.

Theres alot to work on, you can see that, leeds made our lads look like they were being taught how to play football. I'll give credit where it's due Leeds pulled one on us a d some was our fault some wasnt our fault but we did ourselves no favours by standing there at times like statues being observers of the ball.

I think you have answered most of your own questions there Dave.....When you get out fought and out worked, so many other things end up being wrong, it has that knock on effect.

I was ranting during that game, not done that for some time and that was before a goal had been scored.

We can paper over the cracks and ignore it and move on, until the next time or embrace it and set about dealing with that kind of challenge.

If you get certain fundamental things wrong in a game it ends up being magnified and blowen up out of all proportion....I think thats what happened last night..... we was hammered and basically dismantled and in my opinion, we only had ourselves to blame.

It will be interesting to see how both clubs move on from here....it will tell us much about last night.

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

You say that but if Bielsa had to work with Conor it would not surprise me one bit if he managed to get him running like a mad dog for 90 minutes like the rest of his players.

He is making very average players looking like top quality Premier League players.

We said last season that we didn't get results because of a lack of quality.

Leeds are cetainly lacking in quality but are getting results. This is down to top quality coaching, 100 %

this is a mirror of Sheff Utd, but Leeds are better......It is what was said about us under Sir Ron....Hard work and graft is grossly underrated....its not everything of course, but is more important than some like to admit to.

you could be right about Conor, but its because the whole team does it, and the individual just joins in, its a culture, its in their DNA (and we should have been ready for it, better than what we was).....its like closing down, its hard and dangerous to do it as just a renegade, it requires a small group to go about it.

However, no one system or style will win every game....Leeds will come up against teams better equipped to challenge their system and it won't be all plain sailing for them either.

Edited October 24, 2020 by TRO

[One For The Road]

We are currently sat in 2nd place despite having played 3 of the other 4 teams in the top 5 as it stands. 

Disappointing to lose the way we did last night but a bit of perspective is needed here. Dean will learn from this setback and so will the players I'm sure. 

[Woody1000]

I think it’s a shame the international break came when it did as we didn’t get to really kick on from the Liverpool result.

We looked a little bit sluggish against Leicester, but last night was much worse and no where near the levels that are needed.

For me, Smith is not at fault really for last nights performance - sure he could’ve tweeked the formation at half time/early 2nd half, but I think the result would’ve been the same as we just didn’t work anywhere near as hard as Leeds did.

[Stratvillan]

Bielsa is a good manager. He has a settled team and spent 100m, in the same way we now have. I'd say that villa and leeds are approximately at the same stage. Although we came up a year early I'd argue our first  settled team was this year. 

2 good managers doing well, neither are footballing geniuses. 

[Tomaszk]

2 hours ago, striker said:

Smith had a ready made blueprint of how to play against Leeds (Wolves) and totally ignored it.

One would hope therefore that Smith will have a recording of the Wolves game in his pocket when Villa play Leeds again.

The Wolves performance where they could have been dicked 3-0 just like we were?

Pretty shitty blueprint if it relies on the other opposition getting tired, missing a hatful of chances, and scoring a deflection yourselves to win.

An absolutely abysmal blueprint in fact.

Hopefully every other manager in the league has a blueprint of Villa's 7-2 win v the defending champions. There's a plan.  Some deflections yes, but they were lucky we didn't score 12. 

[striker]

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

The Wolves performance where they could have been dicked 3-0 just like we were?

Pretty shitty blueprint if it relies on the other opposition getting tired, missing a hatful of chances, and scoring a deflection yourselves to win.

An absolutely abysmal blueprint in fact.

Hopefully every other manager in the league has a blueprint of Villa's 7-2 win v the defending champions. There's a plan.  Some deflections yes, but they were lucky we didn't score 12. 

Wolves beat them and kept a clean sheet against Leeds. If that’s a ‘pretty shitty blueprint’ then I’ll take it rather than being totally outplayed and conceding 3.

[villalad21]

12 minutes ago, striker said:

Wolves beat them and kept a clean sheet against Leeds. If that’s a ‘pretty shitty blueprint’ then I’ll take it rather than being totally outplayed and conceding 3.

Don't think Wolves set up any differently to counter them.

It just happens to be that Nuno's philosophy directly hard counters Bielsa.

Edited October 24, 2020 by villalad21

[Tommo_b]

4 hours ago, villalad21 said:

You say that but if Bielsa had to work with Conor it would not surprise me one bit if he managed to get him running like a mad dog for 90 minutes like the rest of his players.

He is making very average players looking like top quality Premier League players.

We said last season that we didn't get results because of a lack of quality.

Leeds are certainly lack in quality but are getting results. This is down to top quality coaching, 100 %

Yet sill behind us and played a game more....