villanmac Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Some more astonishing tracking numbers from Leeds’ emphatic victory over Aston Villa: Distance covered (km): 106.0-115.2 Total Sprints: 150-223 Leeds ran 9.2km more than Dean Smith’s side and made 73 more sprints In reality we could never go toe to toe with them with Grealish, Luiz, McGinn and a clearly unfit Barkley. They never had the legs. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we should have sat back against them and parked the bus. Not the Dean Smith way but it was what was needed with the 11 we had. Despite Bamford's eventual brilliance on the night Leeds are actually pretty shit in front of goal, if we parked the bus a bit we could have mugged them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratvillan Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Well I'm not sure about that. From my experience VP turns toxic faster than any other home crowd I've witnessed. Again I respectfully disagree. How many other home grounds have you regularly been in? The pundits who usually cite this are invariably lescott, Richards, Bruce, Oleary who all failed (relatively). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 17 minutes ago, villanmac said: Some more astonishing tracking numbers from Leeds’ emphatic victory over Aston Villa: Distance covered (km): 106.0-115.2 Total Sprints: 150-223 Leeds ran 9.2km more than Dean Smith’s side and made 73 more sprints In reality we could never go toe to toe with them with Grealish, Luiz, McGinn and a clearly unfit Barkley. They never had the legs. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we should have sat back against them and parked the bus. Not the Dean Smith way but it was what was needed with the 11 we had. Despite Bamford's eventual brilliance on the night Leeds are actually pretty shit in front of goal, if we parked the bus a bit we could have mugged them. It’s good to see the numbers, watching the game it was clear Leeds outran us the entire game. I doubt we’d have hit their numbers but should have done more. There was a tiredness/laziness clearly visible at times. Hopefully this is a wake up call. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 This sums it up. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: This sums it up. That’s frightening really, 6 players in the opposition half as we’re under attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tinker Posted October 25, 2020 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 25, 2020 We had better opportunities to score before Leeds scored their first goal, which was a tap in due to some confusion in our box. Their keeper saved from a Konsa header, a world class save. Trez fluffing his lines and Grealish beating the whole of the Leeds team before his effort was saved and a goal line clearance. We need to stand back and clear our heads..There's nothing seriously wrong with us, we just had one of those games where we met a team who had very high effort levels , a striker who hit a career high half way into the game and no luck in front of goal. The real test is against. Southampton. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Stratvillan said: Again I respectfully disagree. How many other home grounds have you regularly been in? The pundits who usually cite this are invariably lescott, Richards, Bruce, Oleary who all failed (relatively). A fair amount. All over Europe as well. Though regularly is pushing it. Doesn't really affect the point mind. Edited October 25, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 13 hours ago, villalad21 said: McGinn has played way too many games recently and i believe Barkley still had a little knock. Not playing until Sunday will do us a world of good. I'm just so worried Dean doesn't trust his bench. Him only bringing on Traore is not good. We need to have a competitive squad and we don't at the moment. I know you are probably sick and tired of hearing about him, but in Bielsas system it looks like anyone in his squad can come in and do a job for him and most of his squad is championship quality, so why can't Smith get a tune out of the likes of Nakamba and El Ghazi? Yes what Leeds are are more than the sums its parts. Individually we are better than Leeds but collectively particularly that night we are not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 3 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Well I'm not sure about that. From my experience VP turns toxic faster than any other home crowd I've witnessed. Sorry I can’t agree with this. Having followed Villa home and away, I know many a club that turn on their fans as quick, if not quicker than Villa fans. We are fickle, I agree, we have no patience, I agree and we live on our size and history which we are prone to these things more than most but we definitely aren’t anywhere near the most toxic. In my view we’ve sometimes been acceptance of poor situations because we are used to them happening especially pre-Smith for ten years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onmeedson Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 I hope Dean noticed the hunger of the leeds players and the work rate that goe's with it, most of our team dreamed that Bielsa would let us walk another goal in. Freebie's are to be paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 22 hours ago, TRO said: this is a mirror of Sheff Utd, but Leeds are better......It is what was said about us under Sir Ron....Hard work and graft is grossly underrated....its not everything of course, but is more important than some like to admit to. you could be right about Conor, but its because the whole team does it, and the individual just joins in, its a culture, its in their DNA (and we should have been ready for it, better than what we was).....its like closing down, its hard and dangerous to do it as just a renegade, it requires a small group to go about it. However, no one system or style will win every game....Leeds will come up against teams better equipped to challenge their system and it won't be all plain sailing for them either. That it, were all complaining about Leeds and at the moment it's going to be Leeds I think that have an answer to us, that doesnt mean Leeds wont find the team that has an answer to them. You cant win them all or have everything in the bag (although Liverpool came pretty close), it just doesnt work in football. Everything has a counter and when you play certain ways, you leave yourself open to those who become skilled in exploiting those very ways. Not saying Bielsa is magic but he clearly has found a system that exploits certain formations by overloading the defence and making the defence work 100% harder. You have half your team set up at the half way line and beyond then your going to shut out a team who has only a couple of guys running in midfield. The problem with all that however is Leeds should of been easy to break down for our final third and they were back as fast as what we could break. Part of the problem in hos fast teams reorganise is how much ball holding were actually doing, our aim should be pushing the ball on as fast as we can, all while causing confusion. We were to slow at times and Leeds dealt with us in all honesty very easy because we didnt counter as fast as we should of done and in the right ways. I'm not aiming all this at Jack just using him as an example. When we are countering a team who have just failed striking against us, we really need to have Jack and other players go full throttle at opponents. It's all good strolling on in with the ball when weve had to work the ball up to the final third slowly, but the same does or should not apply when we have to get at opposition quickly while they are trying to reorganize themselves into an efficient way of defending, we should have one over them. Everybody saying Leeds is this superfit side, I think its half that, the other half is that they had a gameplan and efficiently attacked and attacked us while we were limited in defence. We also had an ineffective midfield, it's not rocket science to see how that one will go when the attackers have the midfield outnumbered and the opposition defence. I hope Smith next time sets up similar, he would do well to try and adopt the 4-1-4-1 style as a way to change up things more and throw more bodys at the situation. That formation is like throwing a hot potato into a trench and watching everyone jump out the trench waiting for it to explode, it never really explodes but it does make everyone work tirelessly to try deal with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 On 24/10/2020 at 12:08, TRO said: They don't rely on Individuals as much as us, so they are difficult to stop....their ethos is Homologous, much like the three musketeers " all for one and one for all" We are still WiP and the progress is sprinkled with stardust....but I think we have pragmatic lessons to learn. I witnessed a team of ours in the past Built by Ron Saunders, where workrate was the Mantra and everything we did was central to that....We had great individual talent like Little and Shaw with serial goal scorers like Gray and Withe....We beat the best team in Europe for the greatest prize.....That is the platform that work rate and high intensity brings to you, we never matched that last night, probably unable to, something to work on. Biesla is a fine,fine manager, but lets not kid ourselves its pioneering stuff.....Ron did something similar with us. Biesla is not a myth far from it, but he has great Nous for identifying key elements of a game....He is also astute at recruiting the right players to fit his philosophy.....our bloke is still learning. Ps Their Goal keeper what a buy also, 20 year old for 5 mill.......wow Yes, they are a much better ‘team’ than us. Relying on individuals, remember, is an indication that the manager is a bit sub par. He needs to bring the best out of limited players too otherwise he’s not doing his job properly. Someone like Bamford is not particularly talented, but Bielsa has found a role for him and he’s performing it brilliantly. He couldn’t even score for Boro in the Championship before he joined Leeds. It wasn’t just the manager, the players also let themselves down. McGinn, Grealish, Barkley, Watkins, all below par. Now I suspect that is tiredness, and though it didn’t make any sense to change a winning team, players like Hourihane, Nakamba, El Ghazi, even Davis coming on at 60-70 mins may have stopped us getting overrun. Every time Leeds went forward they seemed to have acres of space to run into, whereas we had none whatsoever. There’s a clear reason for that and it’s because they were running harder than we were. I hope we see a response in the next game, which ain’t easy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: Yes, they are a much better ‘team’ than us. Relying on individuals, remember, is an indication that the manager is a bit sub par. He needs to bring the best out of limited players too otherwise he’s not doing his job properly. Someone like Bamford is not particularly talented, but Bielsa has found a role for him and he’s performing it brilliantly. He couldn’t even score for Boro in the Championship before he joined Leeds. It wasn’t just the manager, the players also let themselves down. McGinn, Grealish, Barkley, Watkins, all below par. Now I suspect that is tiredness, and though it didn’t make any sense to change a winning team, players like Hourihane, Nakamba, El Ghazi, even Davis coming on at 60-70 mins may have stopped us getting overrun. Every time Leeds went forward they seemed to have acres of space to run into, whereas we had none whatsoever. There’s a clear reason for that and it’s because they were running harder than we were. I hope we see a response in the next game, which ain’t easy either. It is a concern. It's much easier to build that system than finding another Jack Grealish. Trust me, much easier. I do feel we rely too much on individual brilliance and to me it's not really that sustainable. I do think Smith can turn us into a mid table side, but to get to the next level and finishing consistently in the top 6, top 4 you need that system in place. But that's a bridge we'll have to cross and discuss when we are a stable PL club. For now let's just focus on improving from last season. Edited October 25, 2020 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 On 24/10/2020 at 11:11, Tomaszk said: I hope it's not going to be the case all season every game we lose that Smith was "outsmarted"? Uh oh. Looks like 38 wins the minimum expectation then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, villalad21 said: It is a concern. It's much easier to build that system than finding another Jack Grealish. Trust me, much easier. I do feel we rely too much on individual brilliance and to me it's not really that sustainable. I do think Smith can turn us into a mid table side, but to get to the next level and finishing consistently in the top 6, top 4 you need that system in place. But that's a bridge we'll have to cross and discuss when we are a stable PL club. For now let's just focus on improving from last season. I think to get to the next level (which is Wolves/Leicester standard) we have to have a mix of good players and a good system. To be honest I still don’t know what Dean Smith’s style of play actually is. I think we have a number of good players now but are still being outdone tactically. Leeds are an anomaly in that they have a great system full of runners and ball players but hardly any individuals who you think wow when you see them. That’s why Bielsa is a great manager. I still think we’ll be fine this season and do much better than last. But Friday was a big wake up call for sure and a reminder not to get ahead of ourselves. Edited October 25, 2020 by VillaFaninLondon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 19 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: Uh oh. Looks like 38 wins the minimum expectation then. Of course not but when you lose a football match, especially in the manner we did on Friday, people will understandably look to identify the reasons behind it. If people didn’t give their opinion, positive or negative, there’s not much point in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazmonkey Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: This sums it up. So does this...yes its one game...but we do have a really bad habit of collapsing without any purpose...and ball watching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 On 24/10/2020 at 13:19, villalad21 said: You say that but if Bielsa had to work with Conor it would not surprise me one bit if he managed to get him running like a mad dog for 90 minutes like the rest of his players. He is making very average players looking like top quality Premier League players. We said last season that we didn't get results because of a lack of quality. Leeds are certainly lack in quality but are getting results. This is down to top quality coaching, 100 % Maybe. Or maybe he’d have offloaded him. Make no mistake that the players assembled either play the way he wants or they’re surplus. Great coach though. Anyway this is a Dean Smith thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoVillan1983 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, tinker said: We had better opportunities to score before Leeds scored their first goal, which was a tap in due to some confusion in our box. Their keeper saved from a Konsa header, a world class save. Trez fluffing his lines and Grealish beating the whole of the Leeds team before his effort was saved and a goal line clearance. We need to stand back and clear our heads..There's nothing seriously wrong with us, we just had one of those games where we met a team who had very high effort levels , a striker who hit a career high half way into the game and no luck in front of goal. The real test is against. Southampton. This, all of this. I’m pretty annoyed by the level of overreaction and just how binary and fickle some of our fans are. We’re switching between “we’re gonna win the league” and “Smith out”. Not sure if anyone else noticed but Leeds have drawn with Man City and barely lost to Liverpool. They’re a good side. In several alternate universes we won that game. It all hinged on the first goal which could have been ours. We did struggle to change our game to one or chasing for an equalizer - but to be fair on Dean, that’s the first time (other than the cup with our B squad) that we’ve been behind all season. One game doesn’t mean we’re doomed, just as four games doesn’t crown us champions. Deano is doing a great job. A lot of fans are extra pissed because it’s Leeds, and even worse because Patrick Scamford got all the goals. But like, STFU and enjoy where we are so far this season. It’s still a dream start and every single one of you would’ve taken this before the season began. We’ll finish ahead of Leeds. They can’t keep that level of energy up all season. Edited October 25, 2020 by ChicagoVillan1983 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Dean Smith got his team promoted within 10 months, it took Biesla 2 years. Smith kept his team up first try. Whilst it looks likely, Biesla is yet to do it. Dean Smith has his team 2 pts above Biesla with a game in hand. Just a reminder 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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