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10 minutes ago, TRO said:

I know we are in transition as a team, and Rome wasn't built in a day.....but i think next window, we need to bring in players like Andy Townsend or Kevin Richardson who "Rat " around in the midlde and take the sting out of the opposition.....and I mean players who can effectively disrupt the oppositions play and get there foot in.

We need another DM, it was apparent last season and nothing has changed tbh. Think getting Barkley compliments us going forward but it still leaves us short in our defensive midfield area. Douglas for me has it all but isn't great in that "rat" role you mentioned. 

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Don't worry Deano, you not alone. Ralph Hassenhutl(?) is now better than Carlo Ancellotti. 

Just goes to show that, without fans, any team can beat any team. 

Southampton did Everton today what Leeds did to us. Although, I actually think we created more against Leeds and wasn't down to them at half time. 

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3 hours ago, GENTLEMAN said:

We capitulated after going a goal down. Lost our head and became very emotional.

This is where I hope we would have an in-house sports psychologist. As much as the tactical side is very important, never underestimate the mental side of things. 

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1 hour ago, TRO said:

With Jack he is a special talent, but he is not the perfect player, who is.......We need to ensure we get the best out of him for the benefit of the team and sometimes other players need to show out to him to exploit that, like Barkley did against Liverpool.....He was isolated against Leeds and lost the ball

Understand and agree with your general point but Barkley was poor the other day. That's it. That's why he lost the ball in those areas. 

There's no magical system or formation or manager that would have had us winning that game comfortably with Barkley and McGinn so flat. You've got to compete and they were tired/injured/unfit, call it whatever you want. Squad isn't there.

We are going to lose more this season, mostly for the reason we've only got 10 or 11 Premier League players at the club.

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17 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Understand and agree with your general point but Barkley was poor the other day. That's it. That's why he lost the ball in those areas. 

There's no magical system or formation or manager that would have had us winning that game comfortably with Barkley and McGinn so flat. You've got to compete and they were tired/injured/unfit, call it whatever you want. Squad isn't there.

We are going to lose more this season, mostly for the reason we've only got 10 or 11 Premier League players at the club.

I agree....what my point was is.....Jack is not the main problem.

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41 minutes ago, Villarocker said:

Don't worry Deano, you not alone. Ralph Hassenhutl(?) is now better than Carlo Ancellotti. 

Just goes to show that, without fans, any team can beat any team. 

Southampton did Everton today what Leeds did to us. Although, I actually think we created more against Leeds and wasn't down to them at half time. 

No, with ball winners any team can beat any team.....I hope Dean looks at this in January.

Romeu and Ward -prowse was instrumental in stopping Everton getting in to their rhythm....Ings and Adams are a handful and Redmond is a committed soul.....you suddenly have a potion.

Ings is another Vardy form me, never stops hunting and a talent to match, like our own Dean Saunders.....good side Southampton.

Edited by TRO
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6 hours ago, nick76 said:

Sorry I can’t agree with this.  Having followed Villa home and away,  I know many a club that turn on their fans as quick, if not quicker than Villa fans.  We are fickle, I agree, we have no patience, I agree and we live on our size and history which we are prone to these things more than most but we definitely aren’t anywhere near the most toxic.  In my view we’ve sometimes been acceptance of poor situations because we are used to them happening especially pre-Smith for ten years.

I think there's a nuance here though. Turning on the manager and club isn't necessarily what I refer to here by saying toxic. More the negativity it shows the players. Playing for this club you need to handle the abuse from the stands. Might be worse more impatient fans that hound managers out quickly, but I wonder the lack of negativity coming from the stands makes the job easier for players at the club these days. 

Anyway, not important. Was just a passing thought. 

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1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I think there's a nuance here though. Turning on the manager and club isn't necessarily what I refer to here by saying toxic. More the negativity it shows the players. Playing for this club you need to handle the abuse from the stands. Might be worse more impatient fans that hound managers out quickly, but I wonder the lack of negativity coming from the stands makes the job easier for players at the club these days. 

Anyway, not important. Was just a passing thought. 

I meant during games rather than the macro level of club and seasons.  I don’t agree about the negativity from the stands during games is any worse from Villa fans to any other club in our position.

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3 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Understand and agree with your general point but Barkley was poor the other day. That's it. That's why he lost the ball in those areas. 

There's no magical system or formation or manager that would have had us winning that game comfortably with Barkley and McGinn so flat. You've got to compete and they were tired/injured/unfit, call it whatever you want. Squad isn't there.

We are going to lose more this season, mostly for the reason we've only got 10 or 11 Premier League players at the club.

I’d be happy with 50 points from this season. In my head I don’t have a position that I want to achieve, just if we reach that it should be a success and we can buy again next summer to try for 60

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18 hours ago, TRO said:

Good points Dave.

With Jack he is a special talent, but he is not the perfect player, who is.......We need to ensure we get the best out of him for the benefit of the team and sometimes other players need to show out to him to exploit that, like Barkley did against Liverpool.....He was isolated against Leeds and lost the ball so often as a result of it.......i.e When 3 players close you down, others must be free, ( so what are they doing)...i.e I watched Luiz shadowing all over the pitch, not getting tight and not getting physical, not turning the ball over in transition by interceptions....I am reluctant to pick on individuals in a game like that because I think it was a collective effort and some of our players made others look worse....but some never competed, sure they covered every blade of grass, but sometimes its idle running where the lags work tirelessly, but the brain is on holiday......I am not convinced with idle running, more a fan of effective running, I think there is a difference.

I hear comments about players sometimes being questioned ,like " well he runs the channels" like he works hard.......my response is " doing what exactly"

Bamford was lauded for his performance.....played well, but he was allowed to, too......If we had of got physically efficient and tight, he would not have scored 1 never mind 3 ....at one point we had 4 players surrounding him all expecting somebdy else to commit themselves and no one did.

The other star performance of Jack Harrison was a joke, he was aided and abetted by Alioski, not even a dedicated full back just improvised on the day...Matty cash had effectively 2 wingers to deal with, how can the rest of the team allow that?

It comes back to one of my favourite lines in football......they are all good if you let them be.

I think the mentality of that game was, we were more interested from the off, what we was going to impose on Leeds and forgot they had other ideas, in short, offensively it was our first thoughts and if we go in to the game with Southampton, with the same thought process will will experience what we did against Leeds, another major reversal.

I know we are in transition as a team, and Rome wasn't built in a day.....but i think next window, we need to bring in players like Andy Townsend or Kevin Richardson who "Rat " around in the midlde and take the sting out of the opposition.....and I mean players who can effectively disrupt the oppositions play and get there foot in.

I think we had a conversation on this before we made our first signing. We had both agreed we should sign a couple of players who are quick at getting at you, as soon as your on the ball or looking for the ball. Shutdown players is what I've took to calling them, players who give you no room to breathe even when there is plenty of air. Luiz has been very good at relieving the ball from players but he too against Leeds took his foot off that peddle, he also cant do it on his own. I remember saying to you about foreign players from the best clubs how they drill for such thing and how they afford you no space, we dont really have a specialist at it and January we should buty one or two.

I watched Leeds all game long push the lines for yards while we backed off, yet when we had the ball or looked to go get it they afforded us not one inch of space. Leeds knew exactly when to be down our necks or when to move together around our players, they did it all very well. I also think while our play looked a mess because finishes went anywhere but in the goal, Leeds performance looked a million miles better than what it actually was because our players were not up for it and gave them the freedom they did not deserve. We no have the media going on like we got hammered(I cant stand that) and I hope our players cant either. If the players had of put 100% more effort and energy into the game, we would of found just one goal that went in and ended up with a different game. That 1-0 and Bamford, our guys shouldnt of gave up, they did do and they need to learn to never give up.

We looked hammered because we had players who looked like they couldnt be arsed( something I'd not seen since before lockdown). Like you said it's a collective effort and how could they do that, especially to those who are still trying ie Cash. Trezegeut should of been there everytime for Cash, but so should other players have been there to help the 2 to 1 situation out. Harsh lesson is what we had, we gave a couple out and we have had one given us, that if you collectively stop playing football and making things count, the other team will win you, at this high level we cant afford that.

I read some of the fans comments from Leeds, they were surprised at how highly Smith rated them after the game, they deserved it though and we have to learn from that now. Hope our lads pick themselves back up now and go and get us a win, they are good enough to not let this shock them into a run if defeats.

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2 hours ago, Dave-R said:

I think we had a conversation on this before we made our first signing. We had both agreed we should sign a couple of players who are quick at getting at you, as soon as your on the ball or looking for the ball. Shutdown players is what I've took to calling them, players who give you no room to breathe even when there is plenty of air. Luiz has been very good at relieving the ball from players but he too against Leeds took his foot off that peddle, he also cant do it on his own. I remember saying to you about foreign players from the best clubs how they drill for such thing and how they afford you no space, we dont really have a specialist at it and January we should buty one or two.

I watched Leeds all game long push the lines for yards while we backed off, yet when we had the ball or looked to go get it they afforded us not one inch of space. Leeds knew exactly when to be down our necks or when to move together around our players, they did it all very well. I also think while our play looked a mess because finishes went anywhere but in the goal, Leeds performance looked a million miles better than what it actually was because our players were not up for it and gave them the freedom they did not deserve. We no have the media going on like we got hammered(I cant stand that) and I hope our players cant either. If the players had of put 100% more effort and energy into the game, we would of found just one goal that went in and ended up with a different game. That 1-0 and Bamford, our guys shouldnt of gave up, they did do and they need to learn to never give up.

We looked hammered because we had players who looked like they couldnt be arsed( something I'd not seen since before lockdown). Like you said it's a collective effort and how could they do that, especially to those who are still trying ie Cash. Trezegeut should of been there everytime for Cash, but so should other players have been there to help the 2 to 1 situation out. Harsh lesson is what we had, we gave a couple out and we have had one given us, that if you collectively stop playing football and making things count, the other team will win you, at this high level we cant afford that.

I read some of the fans comments from Leeds, they were surprised at how highly Smith rated them after the game, they deserved it though and we have to learn from that now. Hope our lads pick themselves back up now and go and get us a win, they are good enough to not let this shock them into a run if defeats.

A post that sits comfortable with my view of the game.

I saw that too.

I do get the notion goals change games and we missed ours  and that too gives the oppostion a lift.....on another day we would score them, their goalie played a blinder too.

I am not sure we couldn't be arsed.....we was not organsied as a group in a fashion to stop anybody and then we hadn't got the energy to do it anyway.

I am not saying our team is unfit, but I don't think we are fit enough to play for periods without the ball....we are very much an "on the ball " team and if the opposition allows that for whatever reason we are ok....if they don't we struggle...After Liverpool this was going to happen like night follows day.....we did well against Vardy free Leicester, but Leeds knew how to play us and with their high energy, and snappy challenges it derailed us.....If you beat someone and score 7 goals , they know what the capability is and set out to stop it.

It is no good us picking out individuals to blame.....this was a collective failure on the day, we will see what we have learnt against Southampton.

In relation to Smith....I think he was a class act talking about Leeds and he was spot on congratulating the Leeds Players after the game....a cute bit of Psychology there......I remember when i was a kid and refused to run an errand, my mom would get another kid out of the street to run the errand, give them a shilling and praised them to the hilt.....i was totally pissed off by that......Well done Dean.

I really wanted that game above most, but I have to praise Leeds for their approach, very impressive...sticking to their gameplan right to the last whistle

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23 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Trying to replicate a performance where a side grubbed a 1-0 win due to a player heading it into his own net is very silly indeed. Don't think Ancelotti will be doing that very often.

Steve Bruce type stuff. I'm well over that.

So you were against Villa’s performance against Leicester for instance??😂

 

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47 minutes ago, TRO said:

I do get the notion goals change games and we missed ours  and that too gives the oppostion a lift.....on another day we would score them, their goalie played a blinder too.

Perhaps.

But Leeds isn't the type of team that will give up once they are a goal down. Remember they were a goal down 3 times against Liverpool and managed to come back square all 3 times. They went on to concede a 4th goal, but that game was a reflection of their never say die attitude. Also don't forget they were 2-0 down against us at Villa Park in the 18/19 season and went on to win that game 3-2. It's the mentality i'd like to see in our players.

Smith said in his post match interview that our players lost a gear after Leeds scored and that is worrying to me. 

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I'm a bit concerned for the Saints game. They done us comfortably twice last season and will press us just like Leeds did, which I'm not sure we're strong dealing with. 

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Yeah I'm a bit concerned by how confident people are about Southampton.

They were excellent on the weekend and despite a shaky start they've been good this season albeit against pretty poor opposition except for Everton

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Southampton will be a very tough game. They're  level above us in terms of their progression as a team. Bouncing back will be important and a draw would be a really good result.

They destroyed us at home last season and pretty much ruined Engels. Che Adams is on fire and will be desperate to continue his form against us. Tough game. 

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1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

Perhaps.

But Leeds isn't the type of team that will give up once they are a goal down. Remember they were a goal down 3 times against Liverpool and managed to come back square all 3 times. They went on to concede a 4th goal, but that game was a reflection of their never say die attitude. Also don't forget they were 2-0 down against us at Villa Park in the 18/19 season and went on to win that game 3-2. It's the mentality i'd like to see in our players.

Smith said in his post match interview that our players lost a gear after Leeds scored and that is worrying to me. 

I am well aware of what you are saying....and I agree.

The last line is something to work on.

I still think we lack a leader who can demonstrate an aggressive  approach to getting us back in games.....If we want to progress as a team, we have to identify things in that game to work on.

We have improved, no doubt about that, but that game highlighted some of our weaknesses that are still evident.

If it was a bad day at the office.....the next few games might confirm that one way or the other.

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